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2021 ID.4 1st Edition Blue Dusk
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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I went to my dealers website and noticed that they are advertising a 1st edition at $50K MSRP. I pulled the Monroney Sticker and it lists the MSRP at $45,425. No es bueno.

 

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ID.4 Pro S Gradient AWD pre-ordered 9/23/2020
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Well that’s not cool. Maybe it’s an FE already in transit to the dealer that someone backed out on, and they’re trying to capitalize on the FE’s being sold out? Still not cool, even if that’s the case.
 

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2021 First Edition
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Well that's interesting. Maybe there will be some spare cars due to cancellations. A quick search of Autotrader turned up 7 ID.4's within 100 miles of my zip code in Los Angeles.

All were being sold for $45k, BTW.
 

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2021 ID.4 1st Edition Blue Dusk
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I sent an email to the EV Specialist there basically asking "what gives?" I'm not expecting an answer today. We'll see
 

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I sent an email to the EV Specialist there basically asking "what gives?" I'm not expecting an answer today. We'll see
I looked at the web site, saw the $50K msrp. A chat window popped up, I asked the question "why are you listing the MSRP at $50K when the Maroney shows $45K?". They asked me the stock number so they could look into it. A few minutes later they came back with, dealership is closed today and will look into it tomorrow, could they please have my phone number to call me back?
Ah no, I disconnected the chat.
They also showed a discount of $8K if you leased. $500 military discount and a $7500 EV discount. I suspect the $7500 EV discount is the Federal tax credit. Sounds like a shady dealer to me.
 

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I just checked the dealers around me and there’s one available. They don’t show the price online, says it’s “locked“and to contact the dealer. They do show the MSRP, so maybe they’re actually selling it at a discount? I doubt it, but you never know. I may stop by there tomorrow and see if I can check it out.
 

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I went to my dealers website and noticed that they are advertising a 1st edition at $50K MSRP. I pulled the Monroney Sticker and it lists the MSRP at $45,425. No es bueno.

That kind of thing is happening with Mach-e. Orders that people back out of go to the dealers and they are free to tack on additional markup. One near me has a $10,000 markup.
 

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ID.4 Pro S AWD / Waiting, waiting, waiting
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I just checked the dealers around me and there’s one available. They don’t show the price online, says it’s “locked“and to contact the dealer. They do show the MSRP, so maybe they’re actually selling it at a discount? I doubt it, but you never know. I may stop by there tomorrow and see if I can check it out.
If they will not show the price on-line, likelihood is they want above MSRP.

I am extremely concerned about the entire reservation process still going through the dealers and not direct with VW. My assumption is that the dealers will honor MSRP for reservations, however, my concern is with (and always is with) the F&I Department. As I am looking to lease, I can see F&I inflating the rate to pocket the increase and since the car is reserved with the single dealer, I can't just walk away and negotiate with a different dealer. The dealer will be perfectly happy me walking away as they will get the car allocated to them and they can then sell it above MSRP.
 
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Well that's interesting. Maybe there will be some spare cars due to cancellations. A quick search of Autotrader turned up 7 ID.4's within 100 miles of my zip code in Los Angeles.

All were being sold for $45k, BTW.
I did the same in the Boston area. There was 5 with in 100 miles all $45K and oddly enough 4 from dealer.
 

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2021 VW ID.4 1st, Dusk Blue
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My dealer is showing a black first edition on the lot for $45k with a 1.85% financing offer. But I just emailed my EV specialist and he said the website is not accurate and there is not one on the lot in fact. I was excited to go see it in person. I may drop by there anyway and check out the dealership since it is fairly close.
 

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ID.4 1st Edition
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In this Consumer Reports video, they explain that the reservation system acts as a contract with the buyer to pay no more (or no less) than MSRP. The dealer doesn’t have the right to mark it up unless it’s a canceled reservation. That said, I’m going to read the fine print to make sure.

Edit: I just found and read the fine print. It appears we have to trust our dealer to do the right thing:
“Your Reservation and Order do NOT guarantee a set price for the Vehicle. PLEASE BE AWARE THAT DEALER SETS THE ACTUAL PRICE, WHICH MAY DIFFER FROM THE MSRP.”
 

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I spoke with my dealer's EV specialist in February and got an answer that sounds like "we'll sell MSRP." He pointed to the fact that this process is new and that they felt VWoA wanted to approach this more like Tesla and order and buy at the listed price.

At the same time, my decision point is fairly easy. I'm lucky enough to have saved enough cash to buy my ID4 FE outright. If they opt to mark it up any further or give me BS in the financing department, I'll just buy a Model Y at listed price when I actually need the car in a few months (my 2018 Kona lease ends in the summer). By waiting, I might even get NJ's Phase 2 $5000 rebate, possibly even at point of sale.
 

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ID.4 Pro S AWD / Waiting, waiting, waiting
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Edit: I just found and read the fine print. It appears we have to trust our dealer to do the right thing:
“Your Reservation and Order do NOT guarantee a set price for the Vehicle. PLEASE BE AWARE THAT DEALER SETS THE ACTUAL PRICE, WHICH MAY DIFFER FROM THE MSRP.”
At the same time, my decision point is fairly easy. I'm lucky enough to have saved enough cash to buy my ID4 FE outright. If they opt to mark it up any further or give me BS in the financing department, I'll just buy a Model Y at listed price when I actually need the car in a few months (my 2018 Kona lease ends in the summer). By waiting, I might even get NJ's Phase 2 $5000 rebate, possibly even at point of sale.
If I was buying, I wouldn't be as concerned as I can line up financing before hand (or just buy outright), however, we do not intend to keep the car longer than 3 years so buying will cost significantly more than leasing (California does not have sales tax offset on trade-in so would need to pay sales tax on all $50k price ($4,750) instead of just sales tax on each lease payment/down payment (est. $2,000 over the 36 months). In addition, as annual registration is based on the selling price, the $7,500 tax credit will be deducted from the sale price in the event of a lease so annual registration will be less as well (still need to verify this).
 

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Mythos Black FE- Reservation January 13 (Previously Pro S), Jan 13, 9:45 AM PST
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It sounds like even if you intend to buy, it might be best to lease and purchase later. There is no way I will do 10K miles per year.
 

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ID.4 Pro S AWD / Waiting, waiting, waiting
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It sounds like even if you intend to buy, it might be best to lease and purchase later. There is no way I will do 10K miles per year.
Yeah, even if my initial intention is to keep a car longer, I always end up leasing first (it's like a get out of jail free card). At the end of the 3-years, I have a guaranteed price to get out. I had one car where the buy-out price was considerably above market so was able to negotiate the buy out price with the bank as I wanted to hold on to the car and had an Acura where the buy-out price was well below market so purchased the car and then sold it right away.

If I lived in a state that had trade in offset, I would likely buy more cars (the one benefit of not having the offset is that dealers are more aggressive on trade-ins as they have to beat/match Carmax/Carvana/Shift/Vroom.)

Is the 10k too high or too low? In the past 12 mo. I drove about 3,821.29 miles, but even normally, I am around 10k per year.
 

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2021 First Edition
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Is the 10k too high or too low? In the past 12 mo. I drove about 3,821.29 miles, but even normally, I am around 10k per year.
I've been driving about 8k miles/year in my RAV4 EV. But the 100+ mile range makes road trips prohibitive, so it is mostly a city car. Road trips will be totally possible in the ID.4, so I'll probably be north of 15k/year in that.
 

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Mythos Black FE- Reservation January 13 (Previously Pro S), Jan 13, 9:45 AM PST
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Pre COVID, my commute was 200 miles a week. That is just home to a parking spot alone. Add in regular life and an occasional road trip, I will be close to 15K miles per year (isn't that the average per year?).
 

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VW ID.4 1st (picked up 3/19/21).
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Pre COVID, my commute was 200 miles a week. That is just home to a parking spot alone. Add in regular life and an occasional road trip, I will be close to 15K miles per year (isn't that the average per year?).
That's about what I did before the pandemic. But our office is permanently closing - we will be working from home exclusively. So the commute is far shorter, and I will never put miles on the car like I used to.
 

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That's about what I did before the pandemic. But our office is permanently closing - we will be working from home exclusively. So the commute is far shorter, and I will never put miles on the car like I used to.
I would love to work from home permanently or at least half the time. Pre Covid I do around 20,000+ miles a year with a 250 miles per week commute.
 

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VW ID.4 1st (picked up 3/19/21).
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I would love to work from home permanently or at least half the time. Pre Covid I do around 20,000+ miles a year with a 250 miles per week commute.
Everyone's circumstance is different of course. For us, changes really began in 2018 when my wife found a house for sale in Delaware that we liked and had a decent price. Originally our intention was that this just be a 2nd home. Then after the tax reform went through, and we lost deductibility of property taxes (together with my annoyance at the HOA), we decided to sell our home in the DC area, and keep an apartment that I could use while working. But once we got the cats out to the Delaware home, it became clear that my wife was enjoying retirement far too much, and she didn't have a whole lot of interest on coming into town.

Fast forward a couple of years - our office decides to close permanently - 2 weeks ago I was hard at work on virtualizing a whole bunch of servers in the office, and getting things settled in the datacenter. Our lease at the apartment was up at the end of this month, and without an office to go to, I saw no point in paying for an apartment that was rarely used - a hotel would be cheaper for an occasional visit. So this past week we packed up everything and yesterday I turned in the keys. That will save us a ton of cash.

At the moment, going into the city involves renting a car from Enterprise, which is kind of a nuisance. But still cheaper than a car payment as long as I do it infrequently. So I would still like the ID.4 sooner rather than later.
 
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