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2022 AWD Pro S w/ Gradient
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Are your rear brakes seized and the front motors are dragging the car 馃槄? Make a service appointment. I鈥檓 getting 2.8-3.1 mi/kWh on these days in the 30s depending on which mode I鈥檓 driving in. Something is off
 

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ID.4 Pro S Blue Dusk Gradient
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Discussion Starter · #42 ·
Are your rear brakes seized and the front motors are dragging the car 馃槄? Make a service appointment. I鈥檓 getting 2.8-3.1 mi/kWh on these days in the 30s depending on which mode I鈥檓 driving in. Something is off
Well only have rear wheel drive so can鈥檛 be the front motors :D
 

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If you're looking for confirmation that battery thermal management under 2.1 software is awful, that right there confirms it!

I believe you already know the Why: because 2.1 pushes a ton of electricity into heating the cold-soaked battery, so on a 20掳 day to see 10% expended over 3 miles is what we're stuck with until the update.

Your Saturday drive did marginally better because it was a longer trip, but your rolling 1.9 mi/kWh average over those two drives plus the Friday parked meant two full battery heating cycles + mileage.

If you need to head out for a longer drive, once the battery is at operating temperature (25 minutes) the consumption will stabilize.

What's VW doing about it? I don't have high hopes for this upcoming software, unless it's 3.2 (and even then...). First we're going to get a less aggressive battery heating profile, and a new 12 volt battery better suited to cold weather and deep discharges. But it's still going to be a compromise.

Eventually VW will allow us to use house power to pre-warm the battery for a scheduled departure. I don't know your charging situation, but with current software it's worth it to stay plugged in on these cold days even if you don't need the charge. It won't address the biggest 2.1 deficiencies, but at least it'll help a little.
 

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Question: What temp does the battery heat to if one is plugged in, sitting in the seat, brake depressed, which should fully turn the ID4 on?

Question: Anyone know the approximate time it takes to warm the battery from 32F to 46F?

Question: Is there any mechanism with the current 2.1 software to warm the battery above 46F?

TIA

ga2500ev
 

Premium Member
ID.4 Pro S Blue Dusk Gradient
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103 Posts
Discussion Starter · #45 · (Edited)
Question: What temp does the battery heat to if one is plugged in, sitting in the seat, brake depressed, which should fully turn the ID4 on?

Question: Anyone know the approximate time it takes to warm the battery from 32F to 46F?

Question: Is there any mechanism with the current 2.1 software to warm the battery above 46F?

TIA

ga2500ev
I鈥檓 pretty sure the ID4 does not allows you to full turn on while plugged in. It will allow the infotainment center and cabin heater but no drive train.
the other 2 questions no idea
 

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2021 AWD Pro S
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For 21s it heats to 46F while on. For 22 and 23 its 32F while on. Time to heat depends on ambient. Mine recently took 40 minutes to heat from 10F to 32F while 10-15F outdoors. No way to heat above 46F. We people who live in cold areas hope they add that feature soon so our DCFC will be > 45kw and close to our rated 125kw.
 

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ID4:1E - Blue Dusk Metallic
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from 32掳f to 46掳f, I repeatedly see it take 25 minutes with a 5.6 kWh draw (tested by obd11, cabin heat off). In that time 2.3kWh are sapped off the pack. If the cabin heat is on, double that number in the same time.

cool down is fast, like in about 10 minutes: 5掳f is shed from the pack (when the ambient air temp is below 32掳f)

I've experienced pushing the pack up from 55掳f to 64掳f in cold temps, to lose the work in a 20 min idle time.

these numbers are from ver. 2.1 on my 1E.
 

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I believe it is - we had 2.4, from 2.3, installed a little while back and it performs markedly better in cold conditions now - especially in shorter trip of less then 30 mins.
Heaps of 2.1 owners now on 2.4 are complaining about the slower charge speeds now, as the battery stays cold and it impacts the DC fast charge speed. I just find it unbelievable we don't have a simple on/off button in the infotainment to turn on/off the battery heating.
 

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I'm ignorant as to the operation of Tesla's systems, but I know my trusty little i3 preconditions the battery for the departure time I schedule when it's plugged in, even on Level 1. Its little heater can take up to 3 hours to perform the warm-up, depending on how cold-soaked the battery is, but that's not important. Leaving the house with a warmed-up battery on a cold morning (or evening) is what makes the difference.

If I had to guess, VW had all of these dominoes lined up -- scheduled charging, preconditioning for departure, preconditioning for DCFC, trip planning, etc., and was planning to knock them down with each subsequent OTA, but then reality hit when it turned out the first domino was crazy glued to the table. I hope I hope I hope that once 3.1 hits we're going to get back on pace, but I'm not saying that out loud for fear of cursing it.

Oopsie...
The first OTA is always the hardest. Not only is there a huge backlog of built-up bugs to deal with, but you're also debugging the OTA support for the first time in the real world. And the real world (and all of its network oddities) is a much harder situation than any lab testing.
 

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Oh wow, that's worthy of a fresh post all by itself. First I've heard. There's already confusion over difference between Europe 3.0 v US 3.1. and then there's that weird US 3.0.1 that nobody here seems to have.

If you find out more, please share!
The ID.4 has bugs reporting its software version information? How utterly typical of this software!
 

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VW ID.4 1st (picked up 3/19/21).
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The ID.4 has bugs reporting its software version information? How utterly typical of this software!
The overall version number to me is kind of an odd thing - the car has numerous modules, each of which has software with a version number that one can read out, and somehow the overall bundle is given a label "2.1", "3.1", or "3.2". And sometimes I hear VW talk about a "3.1.0.N", and the last digit is yet another thing that really just represents another checkpoint in their software development. So while it is a useful shorthand, by itself it doesn't tell me all that much.

Then again, looking up the version numbers of the 45 or so addressable modules is doable, but is in some ways too much information to boil down to a single number.
 

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The overall version number to me is kind of an odd thing - the car has numerous modules, each of which has software with a version number that one can read out, and somehow the overall bundle is given a label "2.1", "3.1", or "3.2". And sometimes I hear VW talk about a "3.1.0.N", and the last digit is yet another thing that really just represents another checkpoint in their software development. So while it is a useful shorthand, by itself it doesn't tell me all that much.

Then again, looking up the version numbers of the 45 or so addressable modules is doable, but is in some ways too much information to boil down to a single number.
It's not uncommon in the software world to agglomerate all the individual module software versions into some overall system software version.

Many software vendors do this. We even had one vendor where the apparent system software version WENT BACKWARDS even as their compiler advanced its version. They had taken a decision to start naming the overall software version after the version of the compiler (the most important component) and this created a discontinuity in the numbering of their overall software version (8.0 to 7.21). I've had to explain this to my managers more than once.
 

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that last part is your problem
I don't disagree with 70掳F being 鈥渢oo hot for winter use鈥 but my wife and I were experimenting with this over the weekend (at ~32掳F/0掳C outside air temperature) and we discovered that at any temperature setting below about 64掳F or 65掳F, the car started blowing cold air on our hands (as another poster was mentioning recently). We could probably fiddle with endless settings (that might or might not be persistent) or we could just leave the car set to 65掳F and take the range hit.
 

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2023 AWD Pro S
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that last part is your problem
I'm not so sure. Ive stated this before, but as an example. I drove into work this morning and it was in the high 20s. Cabin set to 72, semi hilly highway (Middle Tennessee), heat warmer, steering wheel warmer, and cruise set to 75 mph. Drove my normal commute of est 60 miles. My consumption according the the guessmeter was 2.6 and about 25% of charge
 

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I'm not so sure. Ive stated this before, but as an example. I drove into work this morning and it was in the high 20s. Cabin set to 72, semi hilly highway (Middle Tennessee), heat warmer, steering wheel warmer, and cruise set to 75 mph. Drove my normal commute of est 60 miles. My consumption according the the guessmeter was 2.6.
That's more like it. I like to be comfortable in cold weather, and 70 to 72 is about perfect for us. Not to mention, both of our kids are in either car seats or booster seats, so they can't take advantage of rear seat heaters. So it's paramount that they stay comfortable as well (and kids aren't supposed to wear thick jackets when in a car seat for safety reasons).
 

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I'm not so sure. Ive stated this before, but as an example. I drove into work this morning and it was in the high 20s. Cabin set to 72, semi hilly highway (Middle Tennessee), heat warmer, steering wheel warmer, and cruise set to 75 mph. Drove my normal commute of est 60 miles. My consumption according the the guessmeter was 2.6 and about 25% of charge
Was your car parked in the warm garage before you started your trip this morning? Makes a big difference if your cabin temp was also in the 20s this morning...

I mean it is pretty simple to heat the cabin you need energy and the greater the differential between the cabin heat setting and current cabin/outside air temperature the more energy car will use to heat the cabin and battery. this will in return have direct impact your kwh/mile efficiency

"The ID. 4 heater is capable of drawing about 5,000 watts"
 

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2023 AWD Pro S
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Was your car parked in the warm garage before you started your trip this morning? Makes a big difference if your cabin temp was also in the 20s this morning...

I mean it is pretty simple to heat the cabin you need energy and the greater the differential between the cabin heat setting and current cabin/outside air temperature the more energy car will use to heat the cabin and battery. this will in return have direct impact your kwh/mile efficiency

"The ID. 4 heater is capable of drawing about 5,000 watts"
Its in a garage, but I don't know how warm it is! I do warm up the cabin before I leave....like this morning, I plugged in the charger, turned on climate control to max and went into the house for a few minutes. Came out, unplugged, left the house. I think one of the power hogs is running the heat AND a/c, which is turned on by the auto climate controls despite the temp setting. I manually setting the climate controls by setting temp, selecting the vents, fan speed, and turning OFF a/c. I drive in eco with "B" mode. for the most part, I drive like I always have in an ice. I'm sure if I changed some of my driving habits, I could prob get better mileage .
 
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