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ID.4 FE Blue
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
After another test drive with the SR Model Y I am totally confused relative to what car to choose. I thus tried a scientific approach using the paired comparison method, which is basically breaking down the problem into many comparisons between just two characteristics, where I only have to decide which of the two characteristics is more relevant to me. I came up with the following list of characteristics:

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I only included characteristics that were not identical between the two cars. I also gave a score ranging between -2 (Tesla much better) and 2 (VW much better) as shown above. This is obviously my personal view of how the characteristics compare, and others may come up with other items. This is the result after doing all 136 paired comparisons:

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In the chart above, a score of 80% means that in 80% of the comparisons I chose that item as more important to me. You can see that I most care about ride comfort, price, efficiency, built quality and Apple Carplay. I do not care about the frunk at all, and service close by and the free charging are also not important to me. If I calculate an average of the Characteristic Scores (1st figure) using the paired comparison factors as weights (2nd figure) I get a weighted average of 0.68, i.e., in favor of the VW (and also higher than the raw average of 0.24). This would suggest that I (in a non-gut-feeling way) favor the ID.4. The graph below shows how individual characteristics contributed to this final score:

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Big drivers for the Tesla were efficiency, acceleration and app functionality (which VW could improve in the future), while big drivers for the VW were ride comfort, price, Apple Carplay, Built Quality and the better glass roof. If I kicked out price, the VW would still come out on top. I am hoping VW will add stealth mode, dash cam, one pedal driving and a better app in the future. If the ID.4 had this already, it would be the clear favorite.

Hope I did not confuse everyone... ;)
 

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After digesting all your numbers, for the most part, my wants/needs pretty much align with yours. I would swap Apple Carplay and Interior, either way I would easily choose the ID.4.
 

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Thanks for this--extremely helpful! While I decided a while back to choose the VW over Tesla, I keep wondering if I'll regret that decision. CarPlay is extremely important to me and I swore never to buy another car without it.

I absolutely love the scientific perspective on this, and agree 100% with your assessment. I'm planning to install an aftermarket dash cam once I figure out the best way to get it power.
 

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2021 AWD Pro S
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Good job, and thanks for your work to present it. Are you an engineer? I am and was already doing the same kinds of assigning of numbers and making lists to compare and rank. I am also including the Audi Q4 in my lists, since it will be out by the time my AWD model is shipping in Dec. I agree with your weighting, except for me AWD is a must have, and its acceleration will be much closer to the MY. And it will be so much acceleration that I really won't care about any diff, since its much more than most gas SUVs, especially the low RPM torque where it matters most.

Is the Tesla phone app that much better than the VW? That's one area I have gotten few answers, and the best answers I have seen were from reading reviews on the app stores.

Another area I have not seen compared by anyone (even the pro reviewers) is the diff between ID.4 ACC and lane keeping versus MY Autopilot or FSD. There are a number of other small features like rain sensing wipers, auto headlight dim, heated seats and wheel, heated windshield, hands free back hatch, electronic differential lock, and keyless entry that I have not seen compared but I do care about them and will include in my lists (if I can discover the info!) I also care about ground clearance, where the tesla is much worse.

I mainly agree, and that is why I am still waiting on my ID.4 unless something better comes along by November.
 

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2021 AWD Pro S
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Another comparison is the range, which I care more about than efficiency. Since a car with half the battery will be more efficient due to less weight, but about half the range. On range Tesla numbers are best compared by WLTP, since Tesla EPA is not comparable due to they use a completely different test method that is unfair and not similar to how anyone else tests and often 10% above WLTP range. ID.4 WLTP is 310 that is better than the MY SR at 244 and very close to the LR at 316.

Also, the MY LR in real world tests: On our 75-mph 200-mile highway test route, the Y achieves a real-world range of 220 miles which is about the same as the ID.4, and that is comparing to the LR not the SR as you!

I think the reason they removed the Y SR from sales so quickly is that in real life use (like highway) it won't even do 200, so I would not even consider it. I am considering the LR. I think its bad business practice to advertise EPA range 314 way higher than anyone gets in real life: 220. Note some of these are AWD, where some teslas get higher range than the RWD due to running the motors at a better efficiency point.

Here is a good Y LR real world test where he got 198 mile range, and then adjusted it up to call it 225 since he ran some AC:
Tesla Model Y - Real World Range Test! How Far Will It Really Go?
 

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I'm in the same boat SR Model Y or ID.4? There is one huge factor you have to take into consideration and that would be if you like the Tesla white interior, because that's it. There isn't anymore inventory black interior unless you like red SR MY left. After my short ID.4 test drive yesterday I sat down and compared the two and decided I would work with Tesla on trying to find any color except red with black interior, and there's nothing left.

I have another scheduled test drive with ID.4 this week in the white (FE color I reserved) That will be a longer drive with more opportunity to try out all the features. I think all the hype from my test drive yesterday was deflated because the salesman literally didn't know anything about the vehicle and he was in the car during the drive directing me on the right turn route. There was some time at the end to look at the menus, but overall not a great experience.
 

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ID.4 FE GW
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The real scientific approach is much more straightforward than the approach taken in the first post:
1. Determine your requirements
2. Assess which vehicle meets them

That was all I needed. My requirements were an EV that would be build to high quality standards, offer fast charging, and have a decent amount of usable space inside - big enough to hold my bike strapped to the inside of the car with the front wheel off (as in my RAV4 EV).

ID.4 meets all of those requirements. Tesla Model Y fails #1 and #3. Case closed.

You can construct a weighed Kepner-Tregoe matrix (look it up - I have used that to make decisions for NASA) if you want to do something fancier. That will lead you to a numerical answer with your own custom weights.
 

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ID.4 FE Blue
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
There isn't anymore inventory black interior unless you like red SR MY left.
I literally ordered a blue SR MY with black interior last week Thursday in King of Prussia, PA, and they had at least one other. I am in all likelihood canceling that reservation this week, so if you want it...
 

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ID.4 FE Blue
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
On range Tesla numbers are best compared by WLTP, since Tesla EPA is not comparable due to they use a completely different test method that is unfair and not similar to how anyone else tests and often 10% above WLTP range. ID.4 WLTP is 310 that is better than the MY SR at 244 and very close to the LR at 316.
Good to know, thank you so much!
 

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ID.4 1st blue
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I LOVE this. I've done this a bit in my head but your data approach is much better. And I completely agree with every one of your scores and conclusion except one-pedal driving which I liked more in the VW setup.

I would personally add two more categories that are important to me:

  • Styling (both how the car looks to me and the impression it gives and what it says about you as the owner)
  • Brand reputation (how I feel company, it's history, leadership, reputation for reliability, etc)

The ID 4 wins both for me.
 

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ID.4 FE Blue
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Is the Tesla phone app that much better than the VW? That's one area I have gotten few answers, and the best answers I have seen were from reading reviews on the app stores.
I think Tesla got that down pretty well. The VW app looks pretty rudimentary in comparison:
 

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2021 AWD Pro S
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Here are a few more that are important to me from my list:
Tesla hitch extra $1200.
Tesla ground clearance 6.6", ID.4 8.2"
Tesla no power sunroof cover.

On my wife's must have list is heated wheel, which it looks like Tesla just added to MY, but not model 3.
 

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I literally ordered a blue SR MY with black interior last week Thursday in King of Prussia, PA, and they had at least one other. I am in all likelihood canceling that reservation this week, so if you want it...
Oh really, thanks! I鈥檓 in Baltimore, MD and that鈥檚 the my favorite color. I鈥檒l PM you.
 

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ID.4 1st blue
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Oh really, thanks! I鈥檓 in Baltimore, MD and that鈥檚 the my favorite color. I鈥檒l PM you.
I'm in Frederick, MD and my dealer said they will have two black 1st Ed. available for sale. They have a demo model in which I've driven (they aren't selling that one) and then the two that aren't spoken for yet and my blue one. Those three will hopefully be in this week. It's Fitzgerald VW in Frederick. Ask for John Lee. Feel free to drop my name. Maybe I'll get some free floor mats or something :)
 

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VW ID.4 1st Max | Mangan Gray
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I think Tesla got that down pretty well. The VW app looks pretty rudimentary in comparison:
2 months furthe.. nothing really changed yet. mostly bugfixes. 1.6.0 added some stuff, but nothing groundbreaking. @ 1.7.0 currently.
 

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I think Tesla got that down pretty well. The VW app looks pretty rudimentary in comparison:
Tho
I'm in Frederick, MD and my dealer said they will have two black 1st Ed. available for sale. They have a demo model in which I've driven (they aren't selling that one) and then the two that aren't spoken for yet and my blue one. Those three will hopefully be in this week. It's Fitzgerald VW in Frederick. Ask for John Lee. Feel free to drop my name. Maybe I'll get some free floor mats or something :)
My white glacier reservation is in port already. I鈥檓 a little sour my dealer sold both their demo models already. One was glacier white, and I didn鈥檛 find out they were both sold until I was on my way to test drive. I was really pissed, to wait all this time and then they sell the demos.
 

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The real scientific approach is much more straightforward than the approach taken in the first post:
1. Determine your requirements
2. Assess which vehicle meets them

That was all I needed. My requirements were an EV that would be build to high quality standards, offer fast charging, and have a decent amount of usable space inside - big enough to hold my bike strapped to the inside of the car with the front wheel off (as in my RAV4 EV).

ID.4 meets all of those requirements. Tesla Model Y fails #1 and #3. Case closed.

You can construct a weighed Kepner-Tregoe matrix (look it up - I have used that to make decisions for NASA) if you want to do something fancier. That will lead you to a numerical answer with your own custom weights.
What size/type of bike did you try in the ID4? One bike or 2? Laying down or standing up? Currently I have an 07 Rav4 & can put 2 large mtb's inside, upright with front wheel off, but I don't see that working with any of these EV's.
 
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