[surprisingrice]

I had heard (e.g. Bjorn Nylund) that the front drive boosts acceleration, but probably disengages during highway cruising (which would explain the good range). I'm wondering what that means for a highway trip in midwest winter (say, Chicago IL to Houghton MI, avg snowfall about 5 yards). Will the extra traction be gone when I'm cruising down the highway on packed snow/ice? Maybe it will kick-in if I'm trying to move the ID4 after a snowfall, or get hung-up on snow trying to enter/exit the highway.

 

[SunWizard]

The front motor turns on in milliiseconds if there is any slip detected, and there is a traction setting you can choose where its 50/50 front rear all the time. One thing I have not seen yet in reviews of AWD is how much more regen we get with it.

 

[TheRock]

Nothing different than a ICE with AWD I assume. Disengage and engage when slip is detected or needs a bit more power.

As per last post, there seems to be a traction control for when you need both to function all the time.

Will see more when winter gets here in a couple of months.

 

[cosev]

Will the extra traction be gone when I'm cruising down the highway on packed snow/ice?

Remember that AWD really only makes a difference when accelerating or going uphill on ice. It doesn’t help you stick to the road or slow down an iota better than a rwd car.

 

[Huey52]

Well, if the front motor of an AWD model is engaged and providing regen then it is technically assisting with slowing down. I don't know when it's engaged however.
AWD can be advantageous with cornering too. There's a reason Audi Quattro made such a winning splash in rallying immediately upon its introduction.

Remember that AWD really only makes a difference when accelerating or going uphill on ice. It doesn’t help you stick to the road or slow down an iota better than a rwd car.

 

[cosev]

Well, if the front motor of an AWD model is engaged and providing regen then it is technically assisting with slowing down. I don't know when it's engaged however.
AWD can be advantageous with cornering too. There's a reason Audi Quattro made such a winning splash in rallying immediately upon its introduction.

Fair points - I think what I’m addressing is that I see a lot of people (mostly in pickups) that seem to think 4/awd give them a license to ignore the physics of turning and stopping on ice and barrel along as if it’s dry and 70.

 

[Huey52]

Pickup trucks, when unloaded in the back, have always been problematic in snow/ice so I do agree. At a point physics always wins.

Fair points - I think what I’m addressing is that I see a lot of people (mostly in pickups) that seem to think 4/awd give them a license to ignore the physics of turning and stopping on ice and barrel along as if it’s dry and 70.

 

[vw_coyote]

Nothing different than a ICE with AWD I assume. Disengage and engage when slip is detected or needs a bit more power.

As per last post, there seems to be a traction control for when you need both to function all the time.

Will see more when winter gets here in a couple of months.

It will actually engage FAR faster than in an ICE vehicle with AWD. One of the beautiful things about electric motors is that they respond nearly instantaneously to input, which makes them really good at things like traction control.

 

[SulfuricOlive]

do we know if the front motors will provide regen?

 

[SunWizard]

do we know if the front motors will provide regen?

Yes according to this article: Volkswagen ID.4 GTX: A Sporty All-Wheel Drive Electric SUV
that says: "The front motor can recover energy in some situations. " they just give no further info about when and how much.

 

[Wilsonium]

Yes according to this article: Volkswagen ID.4 GTX: A Sporty All-Wheel Drive Electric SUV
that says: "The front motor can recover energy in some situations. " they just give no further info about when and how much.

So here's the thing... there's only a certain amount of energy that's recoverable in any given situation regardless of the number of motors. One motor might be able to recover some of this energy but adding a second motor will not double the recovery because what it will recover reduces the recovery potential of the first motor. Now there's many many nuances to this like software management of the amount to recover but until we learn to bend the laws of physics I'm not convinced having a 2nd motor will increase recovery much, if at all.

 

[mochalatte]

So here's the thing... there's only a certain amount of energy that's recoverable in any given situation regardless of the number of motors. One motor might be able to recover some of this energy but adding a second motor will not double the recovery because what it will recover reduces the recovery potential of the first motor. Now there's many many nuances to this like software management of the amount to recover but until we learn to bend the laws of physics I'm not convinced having a 2nd motor will increase recovery much, if at all.

Yep, only so much kinetic energy can be captured and the rear motor might be enough to capture it if that were the only consideration, but remember there is also the matter of traction control. Hitting the brake pedal while cornering, it seems like the AWD version will be able regen in more situations since the AWD will be able to draw regen power from the front or back wheels as dictated by the traction control SW.

In a RWD car, any time that the traction control system needs deceleration from a front wheel, it has to be the mechanical brakes that provide it since there is no front motor.

 

[fiehlsport]

If you're on the highway at 50mph, for example, you probably don't need AWD to keep moving, even in the snow. RWD with snow tires will provide a safer overall ride than AWD without them. It's the edge cases in very deep snow or very steep roads that AWD (from a stop) gets you out of big trouble.

I tend to go out driving in all sorts of weather regardless of snow depth, and have used every bit of AWD on my previous cars (with snow tires) so I'm curious to see how the RWD ID.4 does this Winter. My plan is to grab the Pirelli snow tires on Tire Rack this Fall and post some driving impressions as soon as it snows, regardless of how much there is.

 

[vw_coyote]

Don't forget that the battery state of charge and temperature can also affect how much energy can be recuperated--after all, recuperation is just charging using the energy harvested from the electric motor, and it's subject to the same kinds of constraints as DC Fast charging.

 

[VW TECHNICIAN]

True AWD is not always on it is more like part time with RWD whenever possible to gain best efficiency... It is on all EV electriccars.....
What some people need to understand front wheel are on on demand type. Unless choosing specific drive options. Even with milliseconds in response there will be felling like squirrel back end that is loosing traction before front end and electronics kick in to correct oversteer.
It will never be like some AWD setups that always keep some percentage to one set of wheels.
I can be more specific about how VW AWD is working in detail if someone needs engineering type of speaking.
But it will definitely be more safe than RWD in snow and black ice.
One thing that many people who have a lot of confidence in AWD should keep in mind that EV are much more heavy and once you get over capability of car design it will be much more difficult to correct oversteer on heavy car. Fighting the limits of traction and sliding is way more demanding with heavy cars. Keep this in mind when deciding to play on the edge of rally type of driving.

 

[Huey52]

Indeed. As we discussed elsewhere AWD imparts confidence, as it should, but once the limits of physics are hit it doesn't matter how good a system you have. The heavy low center weight of an EV is both a blessing and a curse. "Understeer is seeing the tree you're about to hit; oversteer is not seeing the tree ..."
Well described for ID.4 RWD by Tanner at 2:10 ->:

...
One thing that many people who have a lot of confidence in AWD should keep in mind that EV are much more heavy and once you get over capability of car design it will be much more difficult to correct oversteer on heavy car. Fighting the limits of traction and sliding is way more demanding with heavy cars. Keep this in mind when deciding to play on the edge of rally type of driving.

 

[Hot Soup]

If you're on the highway at 50mph, for example, you probably don't need AWD to keep moving, even in the snow. RWD with snow tires will provide a safer overall ride than AWD without them. It's the edge cases in very deep snow or very steep roads that AWD (from a stop) gets you out of big trouble.

I tend to go out driving in all sorts of weather regardless of snow depth, and have used every bit of AWD on my previous cars (with snow tires) so I'm curious to see how the RWD ID.4 does this Winter. My plan is to grab the Pirelli snow tires on Tire Rack this Fall and post some driving impressions as soon as it snows, regardless of how much there is.

Have you priced it out? Will you be going with 21 inch wheels for the winter tires? We've always gotten winter tires with our other cars (all FWD ICE cars) but typically 15 or 17 inch wheels to keep cost down with tires + cheap rims. This time around we're going to try to deal with a Boston winter with the stock tires and RWD. With the weight being much more evenly distributed, we're hoping it's a non-issue.

 

[VW TECHNICIAN]

Have you priced it out? Will you be going with 21 inch wheels for the winter tires? We've always gotten winter tires with our other cars (all FWD ICE cars) but typically 15 or 17 inch wheels to keep cost down with tires + cheap rims. This time around we're going to try to deal with a Boston winter with the stock tires and RWD. With the weight being much more evenly distributed, we're hoping it's a non-issue.

I would advise on lower diameter rims and definitely use of winter tires.....and if using lower diameter rims make sure that tires are same revolution per mile as factory tires....otherwise iwill not show right speed and if there is enough big difference in tire revolution per mile it will interfere with ABS and stability control....even possible turning stability control service light on.

 

[fiehlsport]

Have you priced it out? Will you be going with 21 inch wheels for the winter tires? We've always gotten winter tires with our other cars (all FWD ICE cars) but typically 15 or 17 inch wheels to keep cost down with tires + cheap rims. This time around we're going to try to deal with a Boston winter with the stock tires and RWD. With the weight being much more evenly distributed, we're hoping it's a non-issue.

Yeah, it's going to be about a grand for the Pirelli Scorpion 20" Winter tires on Tire Rack. I'm staying with 20" because I have my own tire equipment - cheaper to just swap them every season than buy another set of wheels. 19" would be nice but I'm happy with the amount of sidewall on the 20" fitment - it's not like riding on rubberbands with a 21 or 22" wheel.

 

[Reeler]

I always find a cheap set of stock wheels from someone doing an upgrade. Not a fan of oversized rims with the roads in my area, curb rash and expense of the tires. I will buy a set of winter tires and rims this winter.