[Steven]

In its recent news releases, VW is becoming more and more tentative about adding bidirectional charging, e.g.
"The brands of the Volkswagen Group will likely offer this technology from 2022 onwards in models based on the MEB modular electric drive matrix."

Volkswagen Group drives forward intelligent mobility solutions

The Volkswagen Group will present solutions for the efficient, sustainable, safe and convenient movement of people and goods at the ITS World Congress in Hamburg, the world’s largest industry event for intelligent transportation systems, from October 11 to 15, 2021. The focus will be on...

www.volkswagen-newsroom.com

"Sometime in the near future, Volkswagen models based on the MEB will support bidirectional charging ..."

Green energy for new electric vehicles

About 50 percent of an electric vehicle's carbon footprint is generated during the usage phase. That is why Volkswagen has made the consistent use of green energy the third pillar of its Way to Zero. After all, new sustainable mobility unfolds its full environmental potential if enough green...

www.volkswagen-newsroom.com

Will VW offer bidirectional charging on EVs sold in the US next year, or won't it?? And if so, on what models?

 

[Dougie01]

New York Times articles says that one problem with moving to sustainable electricity supplies is the aged distribution infrastructure. Specifically, neighborhood transformers that don't get a chance to cool down. (Traditionally, they were sized so that the duty cycle of the demand was such that it allowed them to cool down at night.)

So possibly there could be a consumer electric rate that encouraged home batteries, including both the Tesla Wall type system and V2H type. That would keep power off the grid and thus reduce the duty cycle of the transformers.

 

[Dougie01]

Here is some info on the current situation with V2X bidirectional charging using CCS. Does not sound like it is quite ready for prime time. CharIN is the trade organization that promotes CCS.

Here is an overview of the features of the relevant ISO standard.

 

[p7wang]

I asked on chat... the 2022 ID.4 will not have V2G.

I think ID.5 will be built on MEB2(?), so I guess we won't see V2G until ID.4 switches over.

 

[curro]

Some additional discussion here: Bidirectional charging / Vehicle to grid in ID vehicles?

For me it looks like it will be a used Nissan Leaf to have ready to go V2H capability (car battery to be used in emergency situations not for regular residential electrical consumption or for V2G).

 

[Dougie01]

My understanding is that US Leafs don't support V2G. They have it in Japan and I think Europe. There was a military program, maybe USAF, that used it, but it was a special deal worked out with Nissan.

 

[curro]

To my research the Nissan Leaf does support bi-directional charging, what is messing is the proper inverter/charger. One option is the Wallbox Quasar, expensive, around $4K! The other one that I am pursuing is going with a Solaredge inverter which, supposedly, is being tested in California for V2H and V2G. I have a contract to install solar panels in my house and I am working with my installer and their technicians to get more information about how to future-proof my PV installation for V2H via the Solaredge equipment. Not interested in V2G.

Already Solaredge supports having an LG battery at home for backup purposes so V2H would be no different. You loose power and your house becomes a micro-grid with your EV supplying the power for a few days at most.

 

[Steven]

I asked on chat... the 2022 ID.4 will not have V2G.

I think ID.5 will be built on MEB2(?), so I guess we won't see V2G until ID.4 switches over.

VW has a credibility problem. I believe I read multiple times in multiple places ALL 2022 VWs would have bidirectional charging.

 

[p7wang]

To my research the Nissan Leaf does support bi-directional charging, what is messing is the proper inverter/charger. One option is the Wallbox Quasar, expensive, around $4K! The other one that I am pursuing is going with a Solaredge inverter which, supposedly, is being tested in California for V2H and V2G. I have a contract to install solar panels in my house and I am working with my installer and their technicians to get more information about how to future-proof my PV installation for V2H via the Solaredge equipment. Not interested in V2G.

Already Solaredge supports having an LG battery at home for backup purposes so V2H would be no different. You loose power and your house becomes a micro-grid with your EV supplying the power for a few days at most.

Enphase is better, you don't need an expensive home battery now. During power outage, you can power your fridge and run your EVSE to charge your EV. Then hide out in your EV for HVAC.

 

[Steven]

VW has a credibility problem. I believe I read multiple times in multiple places ALL 2022 VWs would have bidirectional charging.

Looks like you might be able to get bidirectional charging in an ID.5 - New from the beginning of 2022: The electric cars VW ID.5 and VW ID.5 GTX - Market Research Telecast
"n conjunction with a suitable infrastructure, bidirectional charging should now also be possible at home – the ID.5 can, if desired, supply the house’s electrical system at certain times. "

 

[ChristophW]

Here is some info on the current situation with V2X bidirectional charging using CCS. Does not sound like it is quite ready for prime time. CharIN is the trade organization that promotes CCS.

Here is an overview of the features of the relevant ISO standard.

Long story short: ISO 15118-20 is not final yet. Hence, standardization of V2G is not there and manufacturers are waiting with their implementations. Blame VW all you want, I think they’re doing the right thing by not jumping the gun.
On a side note, V2G/V2H in 15118-20 is DC-only. Don’t expect VW to support AC-based power delivery.
Second side note: 15118-2 contains the original plug-and- charge standard. The article @Dougie01 linked mentions backwards incompatibility between 15118-2 and 15118-20. I wonder whether VW’s delay rolling out plug-and-charge is related to that?

 

[Steven]

Long story short: ISO 15118-20 is not final yet. Hence, standardization of V2G is not there and manufacturers are waiting with their implementations. Blame VW all you want, I think they’re doing the right thing by not jumping the gun.
On a side note, V2G/V2H in 15118-20 is DC-only. Don’t expect VW to support AC-based power delivery.
Second side note: 15118-2 contains the original plug-and- charge standard. The article @Dougie01 linked mentions backwards incompatibility between 15118-2 and 15118-20. I wonder whether VW’s delay rolling out plug-and-charge is related to that?

How about to the battery port of a hybrid inverter?

 

[p7wang]

Long story short: ISO 15118-20 is not final yet. Hence, standardization of V2G is not there and manufacturers are waiting with their implementations. Blame VW all you want, I think they’re doing the right thing by not jumping the gun.
On a side note, V2G/V2H in 15118-20 is DC-only. Don’t expect VW to support AC-based power delivery.
Second side note: 15118-2 contains the original plug-and- charge standard. The article @Dougie01 linked mentions backwards incompatibility between 15118-2 and 15118-20. I wonder whether VW’s delay rolling out plug-and-charge is related to that?

V2G/V2H would require a wallbox to convert DC to AC (and also charge AC to DC).

The EVs with on-board AC are for V2L.

 

[Steven]

Don’t expect VW to support AC-based power delivery.
Second side note: 15118-2 contains the original plug-and- charge standard.

You lost me there. What is V2H/V2G if it's not about AC-based power delivery?

 

[kenchills]

Enphase is better, you don't need an expensive home battery now. During power outage, you can power your fridge and run your EVSE to charge your EV. Then hide out in your EV for HVAC.

Enphase is absolutely THE best if you are going solar. Their tech is the future of solar, and is unmatched by anybody.

 

[ChristophW]

You lost me there. What is V2H/V2G if it's not about AC-based power delivery?

The standard talks only about DC-based delivery back to the house or grid via CCS. As @p7wang mentioned, it’ll require a wall box to convert to AC and feed into the house or grid proper.
What I am really saying: It is reasonable to expect VW will support the standard, and nothing else. I suppose we will have to wait until the dust settles on the standard.
We have in fact seen a prototype 22 kW DC wall box at one of their events earlier this year, so it all comes together.

 

[curro]

Enphase is better, you don't need an expensive home battery now. During power outage, you can power your fridge and run your EVSE to charge your EV. Then hide out in your EV for HVAC.

I am sure both Enphase and Solaredge are already beta testing to have their system support V2H and V2G with an EV that supports bi-directional charging (currently only Nissan Leaf in the US, more to come in the near future hopefully). Whether Enphase is better or Solaredge is better when it comes to a PV system capable of island grid management is dependent on various variables which are outside the scope of this forum. You may go to https://www.solarpaneltalk.com and get as much information as possible if your would like, and there are other forums of course.

 

[agzand]

I might be wrong but I remember reading the current US electrical code for EVSEs and there was some language about vehicle to grid charging not permitted. It could be an old article though.

 

[Steven]

The standard talks only about DC-based delivery back to the house or grid via CCS. As @p7wang mentioned, it’ll require a wall box to convert to AC and feed into the house or grid proper.
What I am really saying: It is reasonable to expect VW will support the standard, and nothing else. I suppose we will have to wait until the dust settles on the standard.
We have in fact seen a prototype 22 kW DC wall box at one of their events earlier this year, so it all comes together.

I think we should drop all discussion of V2G from this thread. Waiting for the utilities to come to their senses, stop destroying the planet and agree to a common V2G standard is like waiting for the Second Coming. What counts is V2H - and Ford (maybe VW with its ID.5?) apparently believes the standard is complete enough to offer a V2H-capable EV. I don't know what's in that standard but I doubt there is some yet unsettled specification that would cause me to dump my Lightning or ID.5 for some tweak that would allow a little of something or other.

From a hardware perspective couldn't an OEM include everything required to implement a potentially desirable feature and then just turn it on with a software update if the feature in question is adopted?

 

[Fahrer]

So, when using an EV to power your home during a power failure how does one prevent back-feeding into the grid? This can kill a line worker. Will all such users ensure that they disconnect their home from the grid to prevent this? Normally with a portable generator or whole house generator, one would use a transfer switch to prevent that from happening.

I mean if someone does use/install a generator, standard practice is to use transfer switches ( auto or manual). Standard procedure for wiring up a charging line for a car does not involve this as far as I know. I would hope this would additionally be installed.