[ChristophW]

Does anyone know whether ID.3 and ID.4 are ready for vehicle to grid, i.e. letting electricity flow back out from the car? And has VW said whether they want to support it?

I know that Tesla, for example, takes a negative stance on vehicle to grid for now, and per Sandy Munro the Model Y onboard charging board cannot support reverse electricity flow due to four large diodes in the path instead of (presumably more expensive) transistors.

 

[emtonsti]

That would be very cool! I think Nissan? or someone else introduced V2G in Japan or Korea? But, I guess you need another expensive box between the car and the home, so not sure what the initial investment would be (says the guy who spent ridiculous money covering the roof with LG solar panels before the price drops of recent years).

V2G can be particularly efficient, because the exchange is done at the vehicle's high voltage, the traction battery voltage.

 

[ChristophW]

Yes, Nissan does vehicle to grid for fleets. In the LA area the US Army has a bunch of Leafs and the necessary infrastructure.

A bunch of companies make bidirectional chargers, including ABB in Europe and Nuvve here in my town. They are expensive, I saw a price of $4000 at the turn of the year. However, if I can arbitrate between my 4pm-10pm high peak rate of $0.53/kWh and the midnight to 6am night rate of $0.09/kWh, that will pay for itself eventually. And it would help stabilize the grid while I make money.

 

[corfam]

During previous research for EVSE install, I noticed that PG&E (in California) specifically prohibits back-feed to the house (Link, reference CEC §625.25). I'm not sure how many other electric providers would have such a prohibition, but it's worth checking with your provider.

 

[ChristophW]

That CEC section is really sad and behind the times! I suppose I’d have to connect a bidirectional charger to my solar panel inverter and home battery, and therefore technically feed/help the PV system, not the house. Unless the code changes soon. Jeez!

 

[emtonsti]

That CEC section is really sad and behind the times! I suppose I’d have to connect a bidirectional charger to my solar panel inverter and home battery, and therefore technically feed/help the PV system, not the house. Unless the code changes soon. Jeez!

That is a really interesting possible approach. How large is the home battery, which company? Which solar inverter are you using?

 

[ixlr08]

If you were to do this, you would be cycling the EV's battery more often, what will that do to battery life?

 

[kimielnielson]

As for me, our future is electric cars and solar panels. That is why you should read this blog websolarguide.com/all-black-solar-panels/ about solar panels.

 

[Reeler]

Tesla is against this because they want to sell powerwalls. V2G cycling for blackouts at least would be great. Many parts of the country (and certainly less developed nations) have unreliable power. Just as an emergency backup option would be great.

 

[ChristophW]

@emtonsti My battery is an LG Chem 8.5 kWh unit configured to only cycle 5kWh. Works really well in practice and keeps the house on our own energy from sundown until 10pm or longer. The inverter is a SolarEdge SE3800.
The PV system is disconnected from the grid when the power company is working on it or when we have a blackout. This protects the workers and is likely the reason for the CEC rule on vehicle chargers. If a V2G connection to the inverter is possible it would technically be safe and hopefully legal.

@ixlr08 I am not much worried about increased cycling at the low rates for the house or grid. At 7.6 kW max you are nowhere near stressing the battery hard. And you can set limits to how full or empty you allow the car battery to be. I'd opt for cycling between about 40% and 80%. I mean, it's a car, I want some juice and range at all times.

 

[Tom Blandford]

Even V2L would be a bonus. For camping and as a power back up in home emergencies. Hyundai has it now. Laptop charger onboard!

 

[ARob]

Yes, Nissan does vehicle to grid for fleets. In the LA area the US Army has a bunch of Leafs and the necessary infrastructure.

A bunch of companies make bidirectional chargers, including ABB in Europe and Nuvve here in my town. They are expensive, I saw a price of $4000 at the turn of the year. However, if I can arbitrate between my 4pm-10pm high peak rate of $0.53/kWh and the midnight to 6am night rate of $0.09/kWh, that will pay for itself eventually. And it would help stabilize the grid while I make money.

Ford has said the F-150 will support V2H with a pro grade Ford Wall Charger. They are apparently working on this in partnership with SunRun.

https://cleantechnica.com/2021/05/30/ford-sunrun-team-up-to-make-v2h-technology-a-reality-is-v2g-next/

Apparently the EVSE has a CCS plug and supplies 240VAC to the car via J1772, and return direction flow over the CCS power pins at up to 9.6kW. Maybe to isolate the return path?

I recall reading something about VW exploring V2x stuff. In fact, this article states:

Volkswagen has announced all of its ID. branded cars will be V2G capable starting in 2022.

Certainly, adding cycles to an EV pack is in the back of auto makers minds. For most V2G implementations, the fluctuations are minimal, just enough to balance grid loads, and this would seem to have minimal impact on battery longevity. V2H might have more impact if users dip deep into the EV pack on a regular basis. For the occasional power outages, maybe not as big of a concern.

Tesla seems to favor owners buy dedicated storage for homes rather than use their EV batteries for home backup power. That is likely to be aimed at reducing product cannibalism.

I wonder if owners who participate in these kinds of uses of EV packs might face issues with warranty claims? The fact that Ford + Sunrun are working together on this suggests Ford will be aware of those who implement it, and may flag the warranty on these owners packs?

Then again, Ford and VW seem to purposely set aside a portion of the pack capacity, permitting only 90-95% of the raw capacity to be usable. Maybe that is to minimize stress and reduce the probability of warranty claims? Or maybe it is in anticipation of V2x implementations in the future?

 

[Tom Blandford]

You can power your house all evening with about 10% of the battery. Enough leftover after the commute I expect. Charge at night. Cycling of the battery is therefore no different to a normal day. The evening load reduction is fantastic for the environment because they run the oldest power stations just to cover evening peaks.

 

[curro]

Greetings everyone, I find this thread doing some searches on bi-directional EV charging/V2H instead of buying an expensive/sizable external battery. So my first post here.

Last week I signed my contract to install solar panels in our house (SE Texas area). Now I have an opportunity to do the install in a way to 'future proof' it for V2H set up as in about a year I would like to get an EV for city driving (second vehicle). A new VW ID would be definitively nice, but my affordability factor will most likely sawy me towards a used EV, and since I want V2H it will have to be a Nissan Leaf (no other option I could find in the used EV market so far).

To my research here are some options for bi-directional charging now or in the near future:

1) Hoping Solaredge latest HD Wave inverter/hub will support bi-directional charging with a firmware update in the near future. This is not for sure but something to find out more about through my solar panel installer. Cost: $2K to $3K range
2) dcbel r16 solar inverted/bi-directional charger combo. This would be my ideal choice but not available in my area yet and no timeline to my knowledge. Cost: $5K
3) Wallbox Quasar bidirectional home DC charger. Available now but the priciest of all so far at $4K just for the charger!
4) Nuvve upcoming residential bi-directional EV charger. Cost: ?. I have sent them an email to find out more.
5) Fermata Energy’s V2X systems. Cost: ?. I have sent them an email to find out more.

If anyone has more information to add to this list or more on the topic it would be appreciated.