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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi everyone. I'm new here and currently on step 3 (order locked) of a no frills, black ID.4 Pro (non-S). I’ve been to a dealership for a test drive and I love the car. Over the last two months, I have poured myself into research of the car, along with the process of buying a car from a dealer.

My question is, how in the world did VW come up with this buying process? In most situations, a factory order is negotiated up front, a deposit is put down (usually non refundable) and the car is built. Nope, not with the ID.4. I can cancel my order at any time, affectively forcing a car into a dealers inventory. So really, I could wait 3-4 months for this car, only to have the dealer not come down on price at all and try to gouge me as much as possible because they know I've waited this long? Doesn’t seem like a great buying process.

Is anyone getting prices below MSRP for non leases? Thanks for your answers.
 

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ID.4 1st Edition White / Lunar Grey
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I didn't, I walked into somebody's canceled order, but...

If I was ordering, I'd line up a bunch of dealers and ask what price they could commit to if I chose them as my delivery dealer. In my experience, some will blow you off, and a few will bite. Pencil out the details beforehand - no doc fees, discount amount below msrp or markup over invoice, no add-ons.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
“If I was ordering, I'd line up a bunch of dealers and ask what price they could commit to if I chose them as my delivery dealer. In my experience, some will blow you off, and a few will bite. Pencil out the details beforehand - no doc fees, discount amount below msrp or markup over invoice, no add-ons.”


Interesting. Can you change what dealer you have the car delivered to? I noticed in my credit card statement, the $500 deposit was from my chosen dealer.
 

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2021 ID.4 First Edition (Dusk Blue)
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I didn't, I walked into somebody's canceled order, but...

If I was ordering, I'd line up a bunch of dealers and ask what price they could commit to if I chose them as my delivery dealer. In my experience, some will blow you off, and a few will bite. Pencil out the details beforehand - no doc fees, discount amount below msrp or markup over invoice, no add-ons.
“If I was ordering, I'd line up a bunch of dealers and ask what price they could commit to if I chose them as my delivery dealer. In my experience, some will blow you off, and a few will bite. Pencil out the details beforehand - no doc fees, discount amount below msrp or markup over invoice, no add-ons.”


Interesting. Can you change what dealer you have the car delivered to? I noticed in my credit card statement, the $500 deposit was from my chosen dealer.
As of right now, minimum advertised price (MAP) for the id.4 is MSRP. This means that the lowest price VW is letting the dealers sell it for is MSRP. Now, you may find a dealer willing to break that rule but that will be a crap shoot.

FYI dealers are starting to get allocations of both FEs and Pros. Basically if you're willing to drive a little distance you can get a car now instead of in a month or two.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
As of right now, minimum advertised price (MAP) for the id.4 is MSRP. This means that the lowest price VW is letting the dealers sell it for is MSRP. Now, you may find a dealer willing to break that rule but that will be a crap shoot.

FYI dealers are starting to get allocations of both FEs and Pros. Basically if you're willing to drive a little distance you can get a car now instead of in a month or two.
You are correct, the dealer I stopped into said they had 6 Pro S's on the way, but had no idea when they would arrive. I would think this would help with negotiations.

A MAP is only the lowest price the dealer can advertise the car for. They can sell it for lower if they want.
 

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2021 ID.4 First Edition (Dusk Blue)
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You are correct, the dealer I stopped into said they had 6 Pro S's on the way, but had no idea when they would arrive. I would think this would help with negotiations.

A MAP is only the lowest price the dealer can advertise the car for. They can sell it for lower if they want.
Hopefully I'm not shooting myself in the foot, but we will be picking up an under MSRP FE tomorrow. Today I saw that the dealer had incorrectly listed it on their website with a discount. I called and they acknowledged that it was an error but they offered me the discounted price if I bought it tomorrow.

This was the second dealer I've seen with the erroneous listing so give it a shot if you are flexible!
 

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My dealer has a scrapper of a salesman. He actively seeks cancelled deals at other dealers and takes them off their hands. So far he has gone through 3 white Pro S’s after my white FE and has a Moonstone Gray Pro S inside on the floor. It is al MSRP though they will offer you a long list of add ons if you will bite.
 

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ID.4 RWD Pro S Dusk Blue
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Most likely right now I would not expect to get below MSRP, mainly due to the car being so new and people still ordering more/awaiting delivery. Also there is the chip shortage issue so it is a sellers market right now, so I am glad that VWoA is "nudging" the dealers to not mark up customer ordered ID.4s above MSRP. Ones that belong to the dealer though can and usually are marked up, from what others on here have been seeing.
I was not able to get any price off the car (nor able to remove the doc fee, they wouldn't budge on it), but I was able to get them to add tint for free. Most likely your best bet would be to see what "free" add-ons you can get away with, as those don't cost the dealer as much and if they are things you want you save that money as well.
 

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I walked into a dealership in Georgetown TX yesterday, Test drove their demo First Edition, drove away with a Pro S that was on the lot at 1000 under MSRP. Not a huge win, but saved at least a little. Only stipulation on dealer side was to use their financing... not a problem.
 

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Most likely right now I would not expect to get below MSRP, mainly due to the car being so new and people still ordering more/awaiting delivery. Also there is the chip shortage issue so it is a sellers market right now, so I am glad that VWoA is "nudging" the dealers to not mark up customer ordered ID.4s above MSRP. Ones that belong to the dealer though can and usually are marked up, from what others on here have been seeing.
I was not able to get any price off the car (nor able to remove the doc fee, they wouldn't budge on it), but I was able to get them to add tint for free. Most likely your best bet would be to see what "free" add-ons you can get away with, as those don't cost the dealer as much and if they are things you want you save that money as well.
If I can order the car on my own, and make dealer a and dealer b compete for my dollar, one will take $1500 ($200 under msrp to get the sale) at the prospect of losing $1700 (msrp but no sale).

We're e not buying the car from VW, we're buying from competing dealerships who know not of chip storages and high demand, because in this case the car just shows up and can't be done to the highest bidder.

This only works if buyer does the legwork before selecting a delivery dealer; once the car arrives any advantage shifts back to the dealer.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Most likely right now I would not expect to get below MSRP, mainly due to the car being so new and people still ordering more/awaiting delivery. Also there is the chip shortage issue so it is a sellers market right now, so I am glad that VWoA is "nudging" the dealers to not mark up customer ordered ID.4s above MSRP. Ones that belong to the dealer though can and usually are marked up, from what others on here have been seeing.
I was not able to get any price off the car (nor able to remove the doc fee, they wouldn't budge on it), but I was able to get them to add tint for free. Most likely your best bet would be to see what "free" add-ons you can get away with, as those don't cost the dealer as much and if they are things you want you save that money as well.
Wow, they wouldn't take off the doc fee? So these guys are getting MSRP, holdback, floorplan assistance, and probably advertising assistance for a car they don't keep on their lot, and they still wouldn't drop the doc fee? This market is crazy.
 

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ID.4 RWD Pro S Dusk Blue
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Wow, they wouldn't take off the doc fee? So these guys are getting MSRP, holdback, floorplan assistance, and probably advertising assistance for a car they don't keep on their lot, and they still wouldn't drop the doc fee? This market is crazy.
Yeah, the financing guy had the attitude of not really caring if I backed out of the sale. They already had a dealer add-on slip containing "extra features" ready to go if I backed out, so I don't think they were really that worried about it. I basically had no leverage to do anything other than get the tint they already applied at no charge. The doc fee wasn't very much ($150), so I figured it was fine to just leave it and take the free tint ($299). The other "extras" on the dealer add-on weren't applied or installed yet, so couldn't get those for free, only the tint was done already.
 

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If I can order the car on my own, and make dealer a and dealer b compete for my dollar, one will take $1500 ($200 under msrp to get the sale) at the prospect of losing $1700 (msrp but no sale).

We're e not buying the car from VW, we're buying from competing dealerships who know not of chip storages and high demand, because in this case the car just shows up and can't be done to the highest bidder.

This only works if buyer does the legwork before selecting a delivery dealer; once the car arrives any advantage shifts back to the dealer.
Since this was my first VW, I had no idea about which dealers are better than others in my area. I just went with the closest to my home.

And my salesperson was familiar with the chip shortage, as I heard about it from her before I heard it on the news. She used it as a tactic to explain why I was not able to negotiate down from MSRP when I tried to start that discussion. I already figured it would be difficult being a pre-ordered car, my leverage was already very limited in that regards.

When dealing with the finance guy, he just had a "take it or leave it" attitude, so wasn't able to play the game there either. I was surprised there weren't any other fees besides the doc fee, everything else on the paperwork were the MSRP, tax and title. He included my $500 deposit in the down payment portion, so I didn't have to ask about that thankfully. Usually they have many lines of "extras" listed, but only the doc fee was there as an "extra" item. It kind of shocked me a little.
 

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And my salesperson was familiar with the chip shortage, as I heard about it from her before I heard it on the news. She used it as a tactic to explain why I was not able to negotiate down from MSRP...
I wasn't saying that literally.

What I'm trying to convey is VW didn't select you through a lottery to have the privilege of owning their car. It's not a Ford GT situation.

So yes there's a supply constraint, but that impacts how VW prices their cars and how fast they run off the assembly line. The dealer just takes what they get and mark it up.

But you're right in the sense that once the car is there it's a take it or leave it standoff, the buyer has little negotiating power because you walking away from your order gives them even more flexibility to make money.. All our power is up front, prior to selecting the dealer, agreeing to terms of the sale when we're on an even footing.
 

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I wasn't saying that literally.

What I'm trying to convey is VW didn't select you through a lottery to have the privilege of owning their car. It's not a Ford GT situation.

So yes there's a supply constraint, but that impacts how VW prices their cars and how fast they run off the assembly line. The dealer just takes what they get and mark it up.

But you're right in the sense that once the car is there it's a take it or leave it standoff, the buyer has little negotiating power because you walking away from your order gives them even more flexibility to make money.. All our power is up front, prior to selecting the dealer, agreeing to terms of the sale when we're on an even footing.
I completely agree with you, if I had known more about how this process was going to work I would've definitely negotiated before placing the order. But since this was a completely new process for how I purchased a car, I unfortunately didn't do that before placing the order, which left me with little to no negotiating power. Hindsight. So, yes, your advice on what someone should do now that we have more information on the process is very sound and should be something people consider.
 

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ID.4 1st Edition White / Lunar Grey
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Don't sweat it. That was the process I was just beginning in preparation to place an order when I came across a 1st "at MSRP." I bit, showed up, and there was an extra $600 attached to it.

I could have walked away. There was somebody else in line they could have easily sold it to. Through a roundabout way (quite accidentally, by happenstance) I got $300 knocked off the markup, paid the $85 doc fee, but slipped in just under the wire for the 1.85 financing, and I'm happy with the deal.

I know if I ordered I would have done much better, and who knows, maybe if I cooled my heels for a few weeks I could have found a 1st that's been sitting and saved a few hundred.
 

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if I had known more about how this process was going to work I would've definitely negotiated before placing the order.
I wouldn't dwell on this too heavily. They would have told you the incentives are unknown in advance so they can't commit to anything in writing. Any promises you managed to get out of them would have been empty since there's no legal foundation to hold them to those promises.
 

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That's why they've preferred to deal in abstract "below / above invoice" when I've done this in the past. It's no lock on a final dollar figure, everything is relative to their bottom line.
 

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Yeah, the financing guy had the attitude of not really caring if I backed out of the sale. They already had a dealer add-on slip containing "extra features" ready to go if I backed out, so I don't think they were really that worried about it. I basically had no leverage to do anything other than get the tint they already applied at no charge. The doc fee wasn't very much ($150), so I figured it was fine to just leave it and take the free tint ($299). The other "extras" on the dealer add-on weren't applied or installed yet, so couldn't get those for free, only the tint was done already.
Was this an additional "Tint" to the Drive and Passenger windows? I'm pretty sure the Rear windows are tinted at the factory.
(not trying to rub salt into any wounds, just trying to learn and prepare myself as we get close to this same exact process)
 
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