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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have declined the invitation to a 5 year "free" Car-Net service because the privacy statement asks me to agree on the terms that it will share my information and driving behaviors to third-party people. I don't see the advantage of the "free" things adds much value to my selling my driving behaviors and other movement information to Car-Net. I already gave Google my driving behavior information thought Google maps. What do people think?
 

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I value my privacy as well. I'd be curious to see how much phoning home the ID.4 does anyway. I would bet that the data that Car-Net is talking about is probably already being communicated and the privacy ship has sailed. If that's the case, I'd rather at least get something that may be of value to me out of the situation.

As I mentioned in another thread about us being beta testers for VW, I think the only way to opt out of these new "normals" is to keep an old air-gapped car with minimal tech. I see that as being an increasingly untenable choice as my current vehicle ages, and it'll become increasingly difficult to drive something which is privacy-focused.

I should be giving to the EFF and other organizations who lobby to legislate privacy standards, because that's really the only hope we have of getting cool new tech without being monetized.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I value my privacy as well. I'd be curious to see how much phoning home the ID.4 does anyway. I would bet that the data that Car-Net is talking about is probably already being communicated and the privacy ship has sailed. If that's the case, I'd rather at least get something that may be of value to me out of the situation.

As I mentioned in another thread about us being beta testers for VW, I think the only way to opt out of these new "normals" is to keep an old air-gapped car with minimal tech. I see that as being an increasingly untenable choice as my current vehicle ages, and it'll become increasingly difficult to drive something which is privacy-focused.

I should be giving to the EFF and other organizations who lobby to legislate privacy standards, because that's really the only hope we have of getting cool new tech without being monetized.
I would agree that our data are being collected whether we agree overtly or not, but in the typical corporate way, maybe, VW's Car Net doesn't explain what exactly it means to share with "third party" our driving behavior, movement, and other information. A blank check to them to give up my privacy is not what I want to do, at least at this time. Thanks for your reply and thoughts.
 

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I too place my hopes in privacy regulations. As a Californian I am covered by the CCPA , and my hope is that other states will follow shortly. Car Net will have to overhaul their disclosure to be compliant.
i also am an EFF member for these very reasons.
 

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I would agree that our data are being collected whether we agree overtly or not, but in the typical corporate way, maybe, VW's Car Net doesn't explain what exactly it means to share with "third party" our driving behavior, movement, and other information. A blank check to them to give up my privacy is not what I want to do, at least at this time. Thanks for your reply and thoughts.
Certainly understand the stance you hold. Privacy just seems like it's a full time job, and you're always under attack. There are times that, out of weariness, I just give in & hope I'm getting something.

Of course there are bad actors that I will not let in at all (Facebook, etc.), and you mention you're giving Google your data. From a risk standpoint, I'd put Google higher than VW/Bosch if only because of scale. The only unknown is who Car-Net might decide to share it with (and keep in mind, just them having it already opens it up to subpoena if you're really paranoid), but it seems that the worst case is that they're giving it to the same type of people you've given similar data to.
 

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As I mentioned in another thread about us being beta testers for VW, I think the only way to opt out of these new "normals" is to keep an old air-gapped car with minimal tech. I see that as being an increasingly untenable choice as my current vehicle ages, and it'll become increasingly difficult to drive something which is privacy-focused.

I should be giving to the EFF and other organizations who lobby to legislate privacy standards, because that's really the only hope we have of getting cool new tech without being monetized.
You'd also have to opt out from using a cell phone, too. That said, your points raise interesting arguments in favor of the upcoming Apple Car. The EFF aren't the only ones concerned with monetizing user information. For profit corps are, as well, such as Apple who charge customers for their experience rather than relying on the freemium model of Google, Facebook, et al.

I too place my hopes in privacy regulations. As a Californian I am covered by the CCPA , and my hope is that other states will follow shortly. Car Net will have to overhaul their disclosure to be compliant.
i also am an EFF member for these very reasons.
The only unknown is who Car-Net might decide to share it with (and keep in mind, just them having it already opens it up to subpoena if you're really paranoid), but it seems that the worst case is that they're giving it to the same type of people you've given similar data to.
Let's not forget the complete lack of regulation in this field, or the lack of Congressional know-how in constructing relevant laws around data privacy, because the worst case scenario are data leaks. I won't get into the composites corps have already constructed about us because that ship sailed long ago before lay persons realized there was even a problem to worry about.
 

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[QUOTE="ExCivilian, post: 17471, member: 1663
You'd also have to opt out from using a cell phone, too. That said, your points raise interesting arguments in favor of the upcoming Apple Car. The EFF aren't the only ones concerned with monetizing user information. For profit corps are, as well, such as Apple who charge customers for their experience rather than relying on the freemium model of Google, Facebook, et al.




Let's not forget the complete lack of regulation in this field, or the lack of Congressional know-how in constructing relevant laws around data privacy, because the worst case scenario are data leaks. I won't get into the composites corps have already constructed about us because that ship sailed long ago before lay persons realized there was even a problem to worry about]
 

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Let's not forget the complete lack of regulation in this field, or the lack of Congressional know-how in constructing relevant laws around data privacy, because the worst case scenario are data leaks. I won't get into the composites corps have already constructed about us because that ship sailed long ago before lay persons realized there was even a problem to worry about]
Europe has the GDPR, which of course doesn't apply to us. We all get seduced by the features of modern technology - you can try and opt out of parts of it (I have never signed up for Facebook, for example). But modern smartphones are tough to resist, and once you have one, it is hard to imagine going back to a flip phone.
 

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Some problems inherent to the platform can't realistically be solved by end-user behavior. For example, we can delete all our apps and only use our phones exclusively to make calls but it's still pinging cellular towers in order to function, which generates an avalanche of personal data just in the geotracking alone.

If anyone is interested in how these things are coming to fruition, the risks, and possible solutions, I recommend reading/watching Tristan Harris' work:

There are many other TedTalks he's given and material he's produced. He was a design ethicist at Google. His recommendation is for people to remove apps from their devices and turn off all notifications:
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Europe has the GDPR, which of course doesn't apply to us. We all get seduced by the features of modern technology - you can try and opt out of parts of it (I have never signed up for Facebook, for example). But modern smartphones are tough to resist, and once you have one, it is hard to imagine going back to a flip phone.
I don't have and never had facebook for similar reasons, but have to get a Google account including gmail, maps and other things that we cannot live without :cool: I am aware of the pitfalls modern tech brings to us as double edged, but I don't like a blank check statement Car-Net has.
 

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I have declined the invitation to a 5 year "free" Car-Net service because the privacy statement asks me to agree on the terms that it will share my information and driving behaviors to third-party people. I don't see the advantage of the "free" things adds much value to my selling my driving behaviors and other movement information to Car-Net. I already gave Google my driving behavior information thought Google maps. What do people think?
I tried to connect Car-Net and I ended up calling them, but they were not able to hook me up. They are not ready as of a week ago to have this car on their system so why bother? Today I am given an outdated about car-net today they got me to hook up
 

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Sorry to be a noob late to this discussion, but I need to address specifics, particularly Car-Net's "third parties" and "driving behaviors" in the EULA: be thinking insurance companies. Monetizing personal data is a given issue, but selling your driving behaviors is going to directly affect insurance rates and even insurability altogether.

For instance, I live out in the country. Passing on a two-lane road has to be done "old school" - in a legal passing zone, you still have to tromp on the go-pedal hard as you can to get around the slower vehicle before somebody pops over the approaching hill. Speed can reach ~80 before it's safe to return to my lane. VW and their insurance "partners" will know that I frequently drive at "patently unsafe" speeds and will ding my policies accordingly.

I totally agree on the Google/Facebook snooping issues as well as the privacy risks of smartphones, but none of those are in a position to limit or deny the ability to drive at all. Beware.
 
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