[JohnID4]

Electrify America is horrible. Many stations have multiple broken chargers. Their technicians cannot fix their own chargers. If the charger works, many of them don’t provide fast charging close to the posted speed. The app continuously fails. There’s not enough support for people that park their cars in a station but don’t plug their cars in that should get towed. I was sold a terrible product that is unreliable, especially when the app tells me that the station is functioning properly and ready to charge my car.

VW has no incentive to fix these errors since they can sell free charging by showing you a map of all of the stations and telling you how vast the network is, but the reality is that EA is a terrible product. No reasonable person is going to think about buying a car and then look to see if the nearest station functions properly. They are fulfilling a mandate by the federal courts based on their “clean diesel” fiasco so as long as it looks good on paper and they are acting “in good faith” then they will probably get away with it.

Are there any class action lawsuits against EA and VW? If the Dept of Transportation, the EPA, or other regulatory agencies can’t or won’t do something about it, then we need to speak up for ourselves. We should get more time to charge when the charging rate is less than 100 kWh. They should extend our time beyond 3 years since we have wasted our time running around trying to find a working charging station. What else should we demand?

 

[Spin]

What else should we demand?

No more crazy talk.

 

[truthseeker]

I demand a free EV for life.

 

[jatrax]

Sounds like a first world problem to be honest. You are driving a modern marvel that the majority of people in the world will never even see much less own. You do you, but I'm going to consider myself blessed that I can drive an electric vehicle, charge from my own solar panels and not worry about things that I cannot control and will eventually fix themselves anyway.

As to EA, despite all the negative press most of the chargers do work. And they are rolling out new hardware. A lot of the older, broken chargers are (I think) a result of EA not wanting or not able to repair legacy equipment that will soon be replaced by newer, better gear.

 

[voxel]

As to EA, despite all the negative press most of the chargers do work. And they are rolling out new hardware. A lot of the older, broken chargers are (I think) a result of EA not wanting or not able to repair legacy equipment that will soon be replaced by newer, better gear.

The new chargers seem to have as many issues as the old ones. EA Tampa and Port St Lucie had all stalls replaced and reports of charges broken and slow charging still persist. EA is tearing out all chargers at Gainesville, Bushnell, and Tallahassee as I type. Half the EA chargers here seem to be broken. I will be visiting one near Daytona after attending the Rolex 24 and expect half the stalls to be inoperable.

 

[bish79]

I certainly have heard all of the complaints and issues that people have had with EA before getting my ID4. As with anything in life I have learned to try something for myself first before making judgement. So I went into the ID4 purchase as a bit of an experiment to try out the CCS/EA network. After two cross country road trips, 55 unique EA station visits (some of those stations being used multiple times, including Bushnell, Gainesville, and Tallahassee), I have been stranded without the ability to charge at a reasonable rate exactly zero times.

Have there been individual units that do not work? Yes, at many locations.

Have there been times where I have had to wait in line to charge? Only a couple.

Have there been times where I could not get the full rate that the car could take given the conditions? Only a couple of times. Also, this is one of my pet peeves, it is almost always the car that limits charging based on battery temperature or SOC or some combination thereof, very rarely for me has it been the charger. But I consistently see Plugshare checkins where people are blaming the charger. I hit that same charger only hours or days later and get full speed...

Does EA need to get better? Absolutely! As more CCS EVs hit the road this will become a huge issue if they don't.

Do I feel scammed by EA or VW? No, not even close.

Do I feel the need for a class action suit? No, not even close.

Of course, YMMV.

 

[truthseeker]

Do I feel the need for a class action suit? No, not even close

But I want a free EV for life.

 

[voxel]

But I want a free EV for life.

Yes! Bankrupt EA faster so a new player can emerge.

I remember back in the summer of 2021 when folks were saying EA is going to be amazing and build thousands of chargers.

 

[Mountaingamer]

OMG EA is so bad - I pray someone starts a class action. I kept my 2021 order and received my car in April 2022 just for the unlimited free charging and it sucks in Colorado!

 

[23TomEV]

Honestly, I really haven't had an issue with EA. It has worked fine for me every time. There stations are 3 within 20 miles from my house. One is brand new and one just installed all new equipment.

Yes, the charge speed is slower than advertised, but it's been very cold here in the Buffalo, NY area.

 

[23TomEV]

Honestly, I really haven't had an issue with EA. It has worked fine for me every time. There stations are 3 within 20 miles from my house. One is brand new and one just installed all new equipment.

Yes, the charge speed is slower than advertised, but it's been very cold here in the Buffalo, NY area.

Sorry and the third one is actually an "EVolveNY" station that accepts the free EA ID4 payment plan. This one has been the fastest charging station so far.

 

[rak0961]

Sounds like a first world problem to be honest. You are driving a modern marvel that the majority of people in the world will never even see much less own. You do you, but I'm going to consider myself blessed that I can drive an electric vehicle, charge from my own solar panels and not worry about things that I cannot control and will eventually fix themselves anyway.

As to EA, despite all the negative press most of the chargers do work. And they are rolling out new hardware. A lot of the older, broken chargers are (I think) a result of EA not wanting or not able to repair legacy equipment that will soon be replaced by newer, better gear.

Sorry and the third one is actually an "EVolveNY" station that accepts the free EA ID4 payment plan. This one has been the fastest charging station so far.

In January we (one car home) replaced our 2020 Leaf with a 2022 ID.4 and the only reason was because of supposed fast charging capabilities for long trips and the free EA charging. First world problem, maybe, but this is a car we can't really afford in the first place, but we believe in EVs over ICE. My lasted attempt to fast charge at EA resulted in maximum rate of 35kw at 17% s.o.c. I probably should have known better than trusting VW, but if results aren't much better on our upcoming trip to CA, I'm all for class action. VW/EA's deceptive advertising could cost us a few hundred dollars just on this one trip.

 

[jatrax]

My lasted attempt to fast charge at EA resulted in maximum rate of 35kw at 17% s.o.c. I probably should have known better than trusting VW

Curious where you are located? You obviously have EV experience, so I assume you know all the tricks to get a faster charge. And all the reasons (having nothing to do with the charger or EA) that you might not get that faster charge.
I usually charge at home so I don't have extensive EA experience but the times I have used them have all gone about as I expected. Charging rates were 46kW at the lowest and 88kW at the highest. All locations had at least one open (and functional) charger. I used the 150kW ones only as the ID.4 isn't going to see any benefit from the 350kW ones at least in winter.
I never expected to see rates any higher than that so either I am misinformed, or you are overly optimistic.

VW/EA's deceptive advertising could cost us a few hundred dollars just on this one trip.

Can you explain that comment? Or expand on it? I don't really think EA's advertising is deceptive but I'll allow you might. What I don't understand is the "cost us a few hundred dollars" comment.

 

[Stu Ncal EV]

According to the EA app, I have had 59 EA charging sessions, and maybe another 20 sessions that did not show up in the app charging history. I have a home L2 I use so this is road-trip charging, many different EA stations.

I have had one EA station in texas that I could not charge at and another 3 that were full: I waited 10 minutes at one, 30 minutes at another, and the third one I just drove 5 miles to a nearby EA station.

I would estimate that there is a 25% chance any single dispenser will be down, for the older units. But with 4 dispensers per station it is likely that at least one will work. Lines are more likely than being stranded. Checking PlugShare before you drive can help you detect bad stations and mitigate them by overcharging beforehand to skip them.

There are also systematic failures such as when all the new chargers in Colorado went down due to the extreme cold. But this got fixed for the next freeze.

A problem now is that entire EA stations will go down for 3 weeks while all the dispensers are being replaced. A notice will appear in plugshare but not in the EA app a few days before this happens. Unfortunately there can be several EA stations in a row that are down at the same time, such as Reno NV and Truckee CA.

I live in California so it is like living in a different country in terms of the density of EA chargers and cold weather issues.

 

[ga2500ev]

My lasted attempt to fast charge at EA resulted in maximum rate of 35kw at 17% s.o.c.

The dispenser is in limp mode due to a faulty temperature sensor. Get off that unit and connect to another. Limp mode is 40kW or less when conditions indicate that the charging rate should be much higher.

I know folks get frustrated because they just want things to work when they use them. But right now there are simply multiple levels of problems in the supply chain, software, billing systems, and hardware for fast charging right now. Frankly complaining that things should simply be fixed isn't going to solve any immediate problems using a dispenser when you pull up to one. A better approach is to solve the immediate problem, report the immediate problem, and just keep it moving until the infrastructure eventually catches up.

Eric Way, who goes by NewsColumb on youtube, made an observation in the Bolt forums a few year ago that I took to heart. Essentially a failed DCFC charge is one when you pull into the station and cannot get a charge to get to the next station. So, while it may take a bit more time, or swapping cables, if one can get a charge at the station, then it's successful. I remember a time here in the SouthEast US where there were no DCFC charging stations. That was barely 5 years ago. Every trip I've taken in our 2021 ID4 Pro S in the area has had a successful charge using this standard.

Reliability will eventually catch up. It may take having manned stations where personnel monitor the dispensers and mark the inoperable ones as out of service as they do in gas stations to get to the point where folks are comfortable with them.

ga2500ev

 

[jatrax]

Reliability will eventually catch up. It may take having manned stations where personnel monitor the dispensers and mark the inoperable ones as out of service as they do in gas stations to get to the point where folks are comfortable with them.

I think that is at least part of the problem. We often see gas pumps with a bag over the nozzle and an out of service tag on it. And think nothing of it. Because someone is at that station and monitoring the situation.
As more chargers are added at gas stations, convenience stores, travel / truck stops etc this will change. I am not sure how they could have done it differently but putting the chargers in out of the way places with no human to monitor them is an obvious problem. It would have been much better to just add them to existing gas stations. Of course convincing the gas stations that would be a good idea might have been a reach at the time.

I think that is going to change, Shell in particular is moving rapidly to add chargers, so is BP. I wonder if EA or EvGo will even exist in 10 years. The gas stations and convenience stores like Sheetz, Buc-EEs or 7-Eleven have a vested interest in keeping their customer base. I can see one of the oil companies just buying EvGO to get into the charging business.

 

[Nai3t]

A human monitor isn't the solution. They could install a "this dispenser needs service" button but realistically, a simple script can show which dispensers aren't getting used, or lower than average use, or high failed attempts, or high early charge terminations, or lower than average current, or other simple metrics that flag a particular dispenser for a closer look. I'd be surprised if those measures aren't already in place. EA and other providers would do well to open some if their data up or just come out and say "dispenser 3 is suspect and dispenser 2 appears to charge ID.4s slowly.'

 

[jatrax]

I'd be surprised if those measures aren't already in place.

So would I. EA almost certainly knows what is happening on it's network. But knowing and fixing are not the same. Having a human around would make the experience easier for many people. It would not really change the uptime of anything though.

I suspect that much of the issue is that EA is in the process of moving to new hardware. So they would really like to not spend money on fixing old obsolete gear. The money is better spent on getting the new chargers installed. From a long term perspective that is good for EA and good for us. Short term, not fun when the charger doesn't work but that's life on the bleeding edge of technology.

 

[ga2500ev]

I suspect that much of the issue is that EA is in the process of moving to new hardware. So they would really like to not spend money on fixing old obsolete gear.

It's worse than that. Because of supply chain issues, EA simply cannot get ahold of the parts required to make some of these fixes. Replacing the equipment is the only viable option.

ga2500ev

 

[jatrax]

It's worse than that. Because of supply chain issues, EA simply cannot get ahold of the parts required to make some of these fixes. Replacing the equipment is the only viable option.

ga2500ev

Yep. I read (not sure where) that EA initially installed three different brands of chargers. That might seem crazy but I think they were smart. Install and test in the real world equipment from three different manufacturers. Now they have selected equipment to move forward with and likely have learned a lot about keeping a charging network online.

Right now things are a mess because the old gear is failing, the new gear is not getting installed as fast as they want and EV sales are ramping up faster than anyone expected.

And throw in the fact that all that government money is just out of reach. If you knew the government was going to dump a bunch of money on you, would you feel like you wanted to run out and invest a lot of your own money just before that happened? I think EA and everyone else is dragging their feet because of the government funds soon to be available. And the fact that no one knew what the requirements were going to be to qualify for those funds until last week.