[jgoodnough]

It gets pretty cold in Massachusetts in the winter. And while it'll be easy to pre-condition my ID4 at home on an L2 charger, it's a different story in "the wild". Does anyone have any experience with the included L1 charger being used in cold weather...specifically for pre-conditioning. Is the charger capable of pulling enough power to heat the cabin and pre-warm the battery? Or does it simply take too long to make a difference? When a car has been sitting in a parking lot all day at 10°F what can I expect if I'm only able to plug in to a standard 110 wall outlet?

 

[mochalatte]

The L1 charger that comes with the car only pulls 10 A, meaning that some hair dryers pull more power.

I'll be watching this thread to see if VW Technician or someone else who knows for sure answers your question, but I think what might happen is the car will accomplish the pre-heating using both the L1 charger and the car's main battery then once the car reaches temperature the L1 charger would go back to conditioning the battery pack and getting your charge back to the target SOC. But if it is really cold outside, I'm not sure if the L1 charger would be able to handle all of that--maybe it ignores the pre-heat request if it's really cold?

 

[SunWizard]

The cabin heater can draw up to 5.5kw. The 120v @ 10a charger gives only 1.2kw, so only about 20% of what could be needed for heat in coldest conditions. L1 is not very useful for pre-conditioning.

 

[dougwmtn]

Keep in mind that the 5.5kw is the peak(?) power draw. After the initial heating, it should drop down to a smaller amount.

 

[VW TECHNICIAN]

The L1 charger that comes with the car only pulls 10 A, meaning that some hair dryers pull more power.

I'll be watching this thread to see if VW Technician or someone else who knows for sure answers your question, but I think what might happen is the car will accomplish the pre-heating using both the L1 charger and the car's main battery then once the car reaches temperature the L1 charger would go back to conditioning the battery pack and getting your charge back to the target SOC. But if it is really cold outside, I'm not sure if the L1 charger would be able to handle all of that--maybe it ignores the pre-heat request if it's really cold?

If left with L1 it does not matter how cold it is outside it will keep up with battery management...and when battery heating is done it will keep replenishing battery for energy difference that L1 could not provide if battery heater is calling max output ( very extremew weather....Alaska).
Now in case of cabin heating it will deep in to battery and L1 energy required to heat. And once timer is out and preconditions is done it will keep L1 on to replenish energy used while using precondition.... so 120V is better than nothing for die hard owners that are not afraid of cold weather.

 

[jgoodnough]

Based on these replies I'm thinking the best approach to severe cold is pre-condition at home, then drive to a destination and immediately plug-in the L1 charger to take advantage of the already warmed battery and cabin. I'm guessing that maintaining warmth would be more efficient than trying to reheat a frigid battery and cabin. The L1 charger power draw is so low as to be a negligible cost to my "host" site while it maintains the car during the hours it sits in the cold.

 

[Mark Magiera]

It was my understanding that if you schedule a departure time, the BMS will precondition the pack for that departure time. Plugged in or not. i.e. will use its own stores to keep the battery warm. ID3 owners are seeing this when the temperature is below 9ºC.

Part of the push to get OTA active was also in anticipation for the "next update" after activation of OTA at the "12 week interval" was to add the code for refined cold weather pre-heating. At least in the Europe market. NA is far down that list, if we see it at all. Part of me is starting to suspect that OTA will finally be "active" on my FE about a month before I return the car at the end of the lease.

 

[VW TECHNICIAN]

It was my understanding that if you schedule a departure time, the BMS will precondition the pack for that departure time. Plugged in or not. i.e. will use its own stores to keep the battery warm. ID3 owners are seeing this when the temperature is below 9ºC.

Part of the push to get OTA active was also in anticipation for the "next update" after activation of OTA at the "12 week interval" was to add the code for refined cold weather pre-heating. At least in the Europe market. NA is far down that list, if we see it at all. Part of me is starting to suspect that OTA will finally be "active" on my FE about a month before I return the car at the end of the lease.

Onboard telemetry is constantly sending data about BMS management efficiency and if there is something that needs to be improved it will definitely come to US same way... and heating battery while driving it will use waisted heat from motor and electronic and if needed battery heater to speed up battery temperature.
Id4 has ability to use motor ...electronics loop for battery heating.... have little confidence lol.
And here is my question to you ...
Is it better warming battery while driving or use battery energy while standing still at 9°C.
And if battery temperature is very important to you at 9°C to be at optimum temperature you can find the way to plug into 120V outlet.
Colder temperature has different effects and how BMS is handling. Conserving battery energy is more important factor...and with ability to use mentioned above you will have no problem driving in cold weather.

 

[jgoodnough]

Colder temperature has different effects and how BMS is handling. Conserving battery energy is more important factor...and with ability to use mentioned above you will have no problem driving in cold weather.

Okay, so to confirm what you're saying here... am I correct that you feel it's best to use the L1 charger to keep the battery warmer if that is an option. That's what I believe you're saying above. Please let me know if I'm reading that wrong. I have a 180 mile roundtrip commute to make 2 times each week in the winter. My ID4 will sit in below freezing temps for about 8 hours before my return trip. A cold, snowy night drive through the hills of New England could put me close to my range limits so I'm looking for ways to improve my margin!

 

[JimmyVW]

If needed the car will heat the battery anyway, If needed from it’s own juice. Charging helps lower the draw from the battery, or could even recharge it once everything is up to temp.
As explained L1 won’t be enough to offset all power needed, but is clearly better than nothing, L1 on 240 volt would already be better and a full L2 charger would be best.

 

[Joe_U698745]

With my previous 2 cars a 2017 Chevy Volt and a 2019 Chevy Volt, the cars were recommended to be left plugged in by Chevy so the car could use the energy from the L2 charge to heat or cool (condition) the battery as needed.

I have not done a extensive read of the ID.4 manual but it kind of appears that VW will do the battery conditioning for the ID.4 with or without the car plugged in. A lot bigger battery so maybe the concern with using battery power is not a big deal.

 

[d287]

I just tested preconditioning the car this morning, our first cold (48deg) morning. Last night I charged to 80% and left it plugged in. So, 15 min before departure I opened the app and turned climate on. I also turned on the heat & defrost option. Anyway, noticed two things:

1. The car was drawing from the house because I peeked at the EVSE (Clipper Creek 40A) and the charge light came on.
2. The car drew more power than needed to heat because the battery climbed from 80% to 82% when I left.
3. The defrost setting didn’t turn on the heated windshield because it was still foggy.

 

[Vwcrzy]

Im a recent 1st edition owner, following this topic.
I notice the app always says AC, does it change to heat if its below a certain temp?
Also if I set a departure time in the car leaving it plugged in overnight, it doesn't work and my Siemens dumb charger is red and has to be rebooted. Do I have to buy a newer smart charger?

 

[d287]

Never tried departure time… but it definitely heats; car was a toasty 70 this morning.

 

[SunWizard]

Also if I set a departure time in the car leaving it plugged in overnight, it doesn't work and my Siemens dumb charger is red and has to be rebooted. Do I have to buy a newer smart charger?

Scheduled charging with departure times does not work. Its a big known bug thats discussed a lot here. Either get a smart charger or wait for an OTA update that we think is coming soon but are unsure if it will fix it. See:

Scheduled Charging - Analysis and Understanding

So i'm looking into the Scheduled/delayed Charging feature that everyone seems to have issues with, just to see if i can pinpoint what is going wrong. For me it doesn't seem as broken as i was initially thinking it was, but I'm really curious what everyone's experience is. I will update this...

www.vwidtalk.com

 

[VW TECHNICIAN]

If you have option in cold weather to plug to L1 it will be better than non plugged ID4.
At -20°F it will cycle every 2-3 hours to keep battery temp within calibration parameters.
Cost of energy will be negligible....
So yes keep it plugged if there is 120V plug available.

 

[d287]

If you have option in cold weather to plug to L1 it will be better than non plugged ID4.
At -20°F it will cycle every 2-3 hours to keep battery temp within calibration parameters.
Cost of energy will be negligible....
So yes keep it plugged if there is 120V plug available.

What about temps above -20F? Is there a temp below which we should keep it plugged in for those of us who live in places it maybe gets down to zero F?

 

[VW TECHNICIAN]

What about temps above -20F? Is there a temp below which we should keep it plugged in for those of us who live in places it maybe gets down to zero F?

Any time temperature gets down from 49°F ...if battery performance matters keep it on L1 or L2 charger.....this way you will maintain SOC and have less energy waisted to maintain Battery temp....because when you start driving you will use waisted energy from electronics and propulsion unit to keep battery warm.

 

[Lotus54]

A level 2 charger is not that much money. I wonder if you could install one where you will be parking when at work?
Perhaps Install one and they keep it- with suppling the power for you?

 

[werd]

I’ve read a lot of posts on this tonight, and I think this old thread might be the best fit for my inquiry/thought experiment:

Imagine an ID.4 running v3.1 software is left outside sitting for many hours (“cold soaking” if you will) during a period for which the ambient temp is low enough to trigger battery warming at startup/within the first few minutes of driving, but not low enough that the PTC/active battery heating is triggered while the car is sitting and plugged in. I think this is somewhere between 32F and 46F, but I’m unsure which if any of the numbers I’ve read tonight are outdated (Like these guys)… and I may also have accidentally conflated some of them… and it’s also late where I am. (Please rake me over the coals at will.)


Now imagine the driver has the option to begin charging on an L1 charger at say 1300W at any point before their departure —either manually for any arbitrary amount of time before departure or automatically using the now-working VW pre-departure charging feature (wait… it works now, right?). Is there some duration of this L1 charging prior to departure that will heat the battery simply by dint of moving electrons through the system (again, assuming it is not cold enough to trigger the PTC/active battery heating system) enough to avoid the ~5500W battery heater needing to kick on at all (or at least not at the full counterfactual amount) during the first few minutes of driving, thus appreciably/noticeably increasing the overall efficiency of the system and/or the miles/kWh for this hypothetical trip?

Let’s assume cabin climate conditioning impacts are addressed only after unplugging and beginning departure and — if this is possible?— do not differ between the two situations in their effect on the battery.

Maybe someone with an OBD is curious to experiment? I aspire to own one and contribute scientific utility to this group at some point, I promise . Or even better, maybe someone can point out that I’ve missed a thread or poignant comment that obviates the entire exercise?