[Jupiter]

In an example of impeccable timing Auto Buyer's Guide/Alex on Autos has just posted a 30-minute video on why you should take CR's ratings with a grain of salt. Not to say they're wrong about VW or the ID.4, but if you're looking at their data on brands other than Toyota/Subaru/Lexus, Honda, and HKG you probably aren't getting data based on big samples because CR members who respond to the survey don't seem to buy very many cars sold outside those brands.

A quick google search reveals the demographics of CR’s customer base … did he discuss that too?

 

[Atlant]

A quick google search reveals the demographics of CR’s customer base … did he discuss that too?

All right: you've broached the topic so now it's time to make your point.

 

[ChrisL]

A quick google search reveals the demographics of CR’s customer base … did he discuss that too?

Yes, that's addressed at the beginning of the video (although he focused on age and income/wealth rather than other demographic characteristics), and you can read between the lines when he discusses car sales vs. what CR has data on; for example, the Escalade is the #1 selling Caddy, but there's no detailed CR reliability data on the Escalade, no data on the Dodge Charger despite its segment-leading sales numbers, etc.

 

[Roamer105]

There are always limitations when it comes to studies or surveys on any subject matter. This video points out a number of those limitations with CR surveys. I have also noticed that some of the reports include information that is obsolete or certain models I am interested in getting information on are not included.

But, what's a good alternative? Social media? Product forums? Google ratings? I don't think so. But having said that these can offer additional inputs to one's decision making process just like CR.

As always , one must evaluate numerous sources of information to get a view from different perspectives/angles and hopefully weed out data that is simply repeated or copied from other sources. CR is just one of those sources.

As an example, I reviewed numerous sources to find that I definitely did not want a VW Golf with what seemed to be leaky, creaky sunroofs. I saw that CR reported reliability issues with the car but not much detail so what was the real issue? This is anecdotal but the 2016 Golf ( base model with no sunroof) has been extremely reliable for me and now my son for nine years - only oil changes, brake fluid changes, one set of front brakes, one spark plug change, one set of tires, cabin filter and wiper blades. No repairs, just wear items. Not bad for a car with a poor reliability rating. How does Toyota beat that?

So, I largely agree with what was in the video but all studies and surveys are flawed.

Consumer Report like other such "reviewers", is a business in itself. It needs to see return on investment. In addition of direct payments for the reports, it is a form of (possibly supported or even paid for) advertisement for manufacturers of the "reviewed" products. I suppose I don't need to elaborate what this means and how it may influence what they focus on. That may include "bias" fueled by manufacturers. Personally, I don't rely on their ratings, but if I do look at their reviews of aspects that are important to me, I take them with a grain of salt and validate them through additional research.

 

[Froggy]

I look at certain aspects of there reports. For instance if they say a certain refrigerator has a trashy compactor I might take it seriously. I am going to research in more depth for a major purchase. Now I often go to ewetube university for reviews that often have demonstrations.

 

[Fahrer]

Consumer Report like other such "reviewers", is a business in itself. It needs to see return on investment. In addition of direct payments for the reports, it is a form of (possibly supported or even paid for) advertisement for manufacturers of the "reviewed" products. I suppose I don't need to elaborate what this means and how it may influence what they focus on. That may include "bias" fueled by manufacturers. Personally, I don't rely on their ratings, but if I do look at their reviews of aspects that are important to me, I take them with a grain of salt and validate them through additional research.

I don't know what you are trying to imply but CR buys cars from dealers for testing unlike the many EV and other YouTuber reviewers that are supplied cars for testing and are invited often to elaborate events paid in full by the auto companies including travel costs.

Edit: The car dealers don't know it is CR buying the cars for testing.

 

[CTK]

I knew this thread was going to be a lot of butt hurt lol.

I like my ID4, but between the bad battery module that took 2 months to replace, the recalls, the glitchy infotainment, I def wouldnt call it reliable. I get that cars are a big purchase, but dont tie up so much of your identity in them that you cant be objective. Immediately jumping to discredit CR for saying things about the ID4 you dont like says more about you than CR lol.

 

[aeidtalk]

I knew this thread was going to be a lot of butt hurt lol.

I like my ID4, but between the bad battery module that took 2 months to replace, the recalls, the glitchy infotainment, I def wouldnt call it reliable. I get that cars are a big purchase, but dont tie up so much of your identity in them that you cant be objective. Immediately jumping to discredit CR for saying things about the ID4 you dont like says more about you than CR lol.

Because no manufacturer reports failure rates with vehicles we have no concrete statistics to base opinions on. The fact that a handful of members on a forum have experienced battery cell failures is insignificant compared to the amount of ID4s sold, although still somewhat relevant. There's also a bias because those experiencing failures with their vehicles are more likely to report than those who do not. Would I prefer to see less reports of issues with ID4s? Yes, absolutely. But no vehicle is perfect and EVs may be experiencing growing pains right now.

Take a quick look at the Ioniq5 forums. There's a prominent thread for ICCU issues and a cursory search indicates that an owner waited over three months for a failed cell replacement (see https://www.ioniqforum.com/threads/...wer-5-1-2-months.51316/?post_id=619269&nested_view=1&sortby=oldest#post-6192690. These problems are not unique to ID4s.

 

[Froggy]

Let’s just say that there’s a difference between the LG batteries used in 2021,2022, and some 2023(RWD) models and the SK batteries used in AWD 2023, all 2024 models, and 2025 models. Not to forget the likely miles accumulated on each model by years. A 2025 probably still has the glue from the Mulrooney sticker on the glass.

 

[CTK]

Because no manufacturer reports failure rates with vehicles we have no concrete statistics to base opinions on. The fact that a handful of members on a forum have experienced battery cell failures is insignificant compared to the amount of ID4s sold, although still somewhat relevant. There's also a bias because those experiencing failures with their vehicles are more likely to report than those who do not. Would I prefer to see less reports of issues with ID4s? Yes, absolutely. But no vehicle is perfect and EVs may be experiencing growing pains right now.

Take a quick look at the Ioniq5 forums. There's a prominent thread for ICCU issues and a cursory search indicates that an owner waited over three months for a failed cell replacement (see https://www.ioniqforum.com/threads/...wer-5-1-2-months.51316/?post_id=619269&nested_view=1&sortby=oldest#post-6192690. These problems are not unique to ID4s.

Im honestly not really sure what your point is, and I dont mean to be disrespectful or flippant in saying that. Nobody claimed other vehicles are perfect, and if you admit EVs might be experiencing growing pains then you're implying CR's assessment of the ID4 may have merit.

Im pretty sure that if CR had put the ID4 on its recommended list nobody would be calling its methodology or credibility into question..... people would just be high fiving and celebrating. Even though the same exact flawed methodology generated the info. Which says to me people dont want actual objective info, they just want to have their choices validated. Is that CR's fault/problem?

I like CR and have been a subscriber for years. But when it comes to cars, no info source is complete or omniscient. Both of my current cars are from brands CR basically says to avoid (my other car is a Lincoln Aviator). I still value and respect their methodology, but I have my own methodology, and think cars in general have become reliable enough that these rankings arent as relevant as they used to be. I dont see why people are so shellshocked/defensive about this ranking. If your ID4 is serving you well does it really matter?

 

[aeidtalk]

Im honestly not really sure what your point is, and I dont mean to be disrespectful or flippant in saying that. Nobody claimed other vehicles are perfect, and if you admit EVs might be experiencing growing pains then you're implying CR's assessment of the ID4 may have merit.

Im pretty sure that if CR had put the ID4 on its recommended list nobody would be calling its methodology or credibility into question..... people would just be high fiving and celebrating. Even though the same exact flawed methodology generated the info. Which says to me people dont want actual objective info, they just want to have their choices validated. Is that CR's fault/problem?

My point was partly that we don't know enough about Consumer Report's metrics and sample sizes to know whether they're any more meaningful than a post on a forum. And I agree with you that it doesn't make sense to either praise or critic their rankings without being cognizant of the potential limitations. It's just another data point.

 

[Fahrer]

My point was partly that we don't know enough about Consumer Report's metrics and sample sizes to know whether they're any more meaningful than a post on a forum. And I agree with you that it doesn't make sense to either praise or critic their rankings without being cognizant of the potential limitations. It's just another data point.

I am quite sure the sample sizes are significantly larger than any polls or inputs on any enthusiest forum. But, as I have stated before, all studies and surveys are flawed. It's always good to research multiple sources before making an important decision on anything.

 

[CTK]

My point was partly that we don't know enough about Consumer Report's metrics and sample sizes to know whether they're any more meaningful than a post on a forum. And I agree with you that it doesn't make sense to either praise or critic their rankings without being cognizant of the potential limitations. It's just another data point.

I think its pretty safe to say Consumer Reports is a more reliable and rigorous source of broader reliability data than forum posts. Both have value- CR has bigger sample sizes but is less specific, forum posts have unknown sample sizes but get into the nitty gritty of whatever is going on, along with on the ground stuff like dealer response etc. Theyre both valuable for someone who knows how to interpret information.

 

[jason330i]

Based on my experience, I am going to have to agree with CR on this one. Multiple issues over the first 2.5 years. Need to go back to the dealership once again for a peeling steering wheel.

 

[Mike3184]

Furthermore, Consumers Union is a nonprofit under Section 501(c)(3) and does not need to show a return on investment. You can check this out yourself at the IRS web site.

 

[Tvnwz]

Now don’t go hating on the Pacer. I had one. Got more comments than any other car I’ve owned!

 

[Froggy]

Now don’t go hating on the Pacer. I had one. Got more comments than any other car I’ve owned!

Ahhh. But what kind of comments?

 

[Atlant]

Ahhh. But what kind of comments?

“Well, at least it looks different than a Gremlin.”

 

[Froggy]

Yes, the first time that I saw a Gremlin I asked "where is the rest of the vehicle, it looks like someone chopped off the backend". But were they really worse than an Aztec?

 

[Fahrer]

Well, Detroit always hated making small cars and it showed. The Pinto, the Gremlin, the Pacer, the Chevette. There were others.

And the Corolla, the Civic and VW Beetle marched on until the Rabbit/Golf replaced the latter.