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2021 VW ID.4 1st, Dusk Blue
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I’m about a week from taking delivery of my ID.4. I’ve been asking my dealer for a while about markups and fees and he assured me there were none of either. Today I found out they do have a dealer fee and he said it is mandatory. They use it to pay all the people involved in the prep and as part of the salesman’s commission. He also knew the amount other dealers in the area charge and quoted those to me. I was not expecting to have to pay this additional $800. Are any of you also getting charged a separate “dealers fee”? To me this is just additional profit, since they also get profit on the car and that is used to pay everyone. My first thought was to move my order to another dealer but now that I know they all charge it that won’t work. Is this prevalent? I haven’t bought a new car in 6 years so I feel out of the loop. Thanks in advance!
 

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ID.4 ProS Gradient Dusk Blue waiting in North Hills?
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This could be called Collusion, but I'm not a lawyer
 

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My salesman quoted around $200 (I don't remember the exact amount) and said he had to charge it. He hinted he could reduce MSRP by that much, so I'll just have to wait until the car arrives to know for sure.
 

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2021 VW ID.4 1st, Dusk Blue
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
This could be called Collusion, but I'm not a lawyer
Right? But they are all charging slightly different amounts. I think this is a BS fee personally but if everyone is paying I guess I won’t have a choice but to do it also. Someone here posted videos of a former car salesman who went through various fees they might try to stick to you and said of dealer fees that if they insist you should negotiate that off the price of your car. Of course, this car is in high demand so it would just go to the next person on the list instead of getting anything knocked off the price.
 

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Right? But they are all charging slightly different amounts. I think this is a BS fee personally but if everyone is paying I guess I won’t have a choice but to do it also. Someone here posted videos of a former car salesman who went through various fees they might try to stick to you and said of dealer fees that if they insist you should negotiate that off the price of your car. Of course, this car is in high demand so it would just go to the next person on the list instead of getting anything knocked off the price.
Perhaps what you can do is threaten future business. Let them know that you understand everyone is charging it, so there's no reason for you to return to them the next time. You'll grudgingly buy the car this time because you're over a barrel, but next time they'll miss out on 100% of the profit/revenue because there's no reason for you to be loyal. They'll have got their one shot at your business, and know that they'll be at the bottom of the rotation as you at least give other dealers an opportunity to do better next time.

Maybe I'm being optimistic, but perhaps that would make them a bit more likely to negotiate?
 

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A bideo that someone posted on another thread said to ask them to itemize the fees so you know what they are trying to make you pay and if they do not budge that price should be reduced from the vehicle price.
 

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2019 Tiguan SE 2016 Jetta Sport
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$495 "documentation fee" is pretty standard here in AZ. This has nothing to do with registration BTW. On top of that, most dealers add $1k to $2k in bullshit add-ons. I never had this crap back in New England. Whatever, the only important thing is the bottom line price you pay. Dealers do have to make money after all.
 

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Just picked up my car today and was charged the dealer prep and destination charge.
 

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2021 VW ID.4 1st, Dusk Blue
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Just picked up my car today and was charged the dealer prep and destination charge.
Congrats! From what I understand, destination charge is on the window sticker and is federally mandated. Dealer prep fee is just pure profit though. Along with excessive doc fees over what the state actually charges.
 

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Dusk Blue FE
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There is another thread called Dealer Shenanigans. IMHO, any added cost (other than the destination fee, a doc fee, taxes and dealer options that you approve) qualifies as a shenanigan. I am already rehearsing the argument I expect to make to my dealer and it goes something like this:

I understand that MSRP stands for "manufacturer's suggested retail price" and I know that you can set whatever asking price you like. My option if I don't like the price is to walk away. But what makes this situation different is that you didn't "sell" me the car. VW did the selling and took my deposit, which they then gave to you to hold. VW has made it clear that, when it solicited orders from customers, quoting the MSRP, VW expected the dealers to adhere to that price. Adding additional charges to the MSRP creates ill will among the customers, which undermines VW's plans for a successful rollout of the ID4. VW expects that, with the ID4, they can expand the EV market by tapping the largest category of buyers, that is, people who want small SUVs and who, up till now, were considering ICE models. If VW's expectations are correct, that's a huge win for both VW and VW dealers. If dealers screw this up by alienating customers, then everybody loses. I understand that you have overhead and other expenses but the MSRP includes a pretty nice amount of profit for you. Dealers should be playing the long game here, just like VW."

OK, that was the "good cop" argument. The "bad cop" argument is that, if the dealer persists, people like me will be reporting dealer behavior (and their names) on an internet forum, which is followed by a large number of potential customers. VW also monitors that forum, and VW has the power to limit future allocations of what ought to be a profitable product.

I may be making this argument tomorrow, because my FE is waiting. Wish me luck.
 

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ID.4 ProS Gradient Dusk Blue waiting in North Hills?
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There is another thread called Dealer Shenanigans. IMHO, any added cost (other than the destination fee, a doc fee, taxes and dealer options that you approve) qualifies as a shenanigan. I am already rehearsing the argument I expect to make to my dealer and it goes something like this:

I understand that MSRP stands for "manufacturer's suggested retail price" and I know that you can set whatever asking price you like. My option if I don't like the price is to walk away. But what makes this situation different is that you didn't "sell" me the car. VW did the selling and took my deposit, which they then gave to you to hold. VW has made it clear that, when it solicited orders from customers, quoting the MSRP, VW expected the dealers to adhere to that price. Adding additional charges to the MSRP creates ill will among the customers, which undermines VW's plans for a successful rollout of the ID4. VW expects that, with the ID4, they can expand the EV market by tapping the largest category of buyers, that is, people who want small SUVs and who, up till now, were considering ICE models. If VW's expectations are correct, that's a huge win for both VW and VW dealers. If dealers screw this up by alienating customers, then everybody loses. I understand that you have overhead and other expenses but the MSRP includes a pretty nice amount of profit for you. Dealers should be playing the long game here, just like VW."

OK, that was the "good cop" argument. The "bad cop" argument is that, if the dealer persists, people like me will be reporting dealer behavior (and their names) on an internet forum, which is followed by a large number of potential customers. VW also monitors that forum, and VW has the power to limit future allocations of what ought to be a profitable product.

I may be making this argument tomorrow, because my FE is waiting. Wish me luck.
I love the Good and Bad cop there. I suck at these things so I am being noteworthy of how to do this in a calm way and not get pushed around. And I completely agree, in this situation Blah Blah VW of Blah Blah did none of the work to sell me the car, VWOA did, and blah blah VW of Blah Blah is merely the holding company for the distribution of the vehicle. Further, the value add of the Blah Blah VW of Blah Blah is their customer support and service, which is the follow up to this particular transaction. Oh and Blah Blah VW of Blah Blah got to hold onto $500 of mine for months for FREE!

Best of luck tomorrow and let us know how it works out.
 

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Preorders are silly when there is so much inventory available around the country. I bet many walked from their delivery because of dealer shenanigans or cold feet. Just find one nearby and negotiate like normal. EVs don't get a crush of demand typically especially with GM, Nissan, Hyundai, & KIA releasing product in the few months.
 

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2021 ID.4 1st Edition Blue Dusk
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A bideo that someone posted on another thread said to ask them to itemize the fees so you know what they are trying to make you pay and if they do not budge that price should be reduced from the vehicle price.
Correct! That's what I did. Here are the videos

 

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ID.4 1st Edition White / Lunar Grey
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Don't normalize outrageous doc fees. This is a shiet situation to have an ordered car and have no prior agreed upon price. If no out the door price was negotiated before placing the order, the fallback is to be obstinate and say I agreed to buy this car at MSRP and not a penny more, you have $1500 in profit over invoice. I don't know how you can threaten to walk out when they have Your Car, unless you're willing to walk away and start over. You can also try to get VW involved as others have, but not sure this will get traction since it's "just" a doc fee.
 

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2021 ID.4 1st Edition Blue Dusk
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Don't normalize outrageous doc fees. This is a shiet situation to have an ordered car and have no prior agreed upon price. If no out the door price was negotiated before placing the order, the fallback is to be obstinate and say I agreed to buy this car at MSRP and not a penny more, you have $1500 in profit over invoice. I don't know how you can threaten to walk out when they have Your Car, unless you're willing to walk away and start over. You can also try to get VW involved as others have, but not sure this will get traction since it's "just" a doc fee.
I was able to get the non-government fees deducted from the MSRP. It can be done. My guide does work. The only thing I would add, and I will, is to make the appointment to pick up the car on a weekday as early as possible so you can call VW CARE and/or VW Credit at business hours.
 
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