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I purchased my id4 today and i really felt my dealer was pushing me to lease rather than buy my id4. When I told him that I was going to buy the id4 he asked me why I wouldn't lease. I explained my reasons. He came back with benefits of leasing this vehicle because "you never know what its value will be at the end of the lease." I said that's true of of any car. But two more times during the buying process he kept reiterating the benefit of a lease over buying. I finally said, "I'm buying the car, not leasing!" When everything was done, one of the other managers greeted me as I was heading out to get into my car and go home and he asked, what was the reason I didn't lease? Has anyone else that has their car been grilled about leasing vs buying?
 

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Of course they pushed lease over buying as it's a money maker for them/VW. Plus they get to resell the vehicle and the pre-owned market is an even bigger business for them then new, especially in the Covid era. ;)

Related, when I went back a few days later to get my registration/inspection sticker I noticed a large chalk board in the service entrance pleading for pre-owned vehicles, denoting a number of models and rather wide age limits, so ....

Personally I got no push back when I told the Finance manager I was going to buy (I never pre-articulate same to sales folks). But then I'm an elder and they assume I've got experience in such matters so they don't waste their time. They also don't push the upsell stuff on me either. :)

I purchased my id4 today and i really felt my dealer was pushing me to lease rather than buy my id4. When I told him that I was going to buy the id4 he asked me why I wouldn't lease. I explained my reasons. He came back with benefits of leasing this vehicle because "you never know what its value will be at the end of the lease." I said that's true of of any car. But two more times during the buying process he kept reiterating the benefit of a lease over buying. I finally said, "I'm buying the car, not leasing!" When everything was done, one of the other managers greeted me as I was heading out to get into my car and go home and he asked, what was the reason I didn't lease? Has anyone else that has their car been grilled about leasing vs buying?
 

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I purchased my id4 today and i really felt my dealer was pushing me to lease rather than buy my id4. When I told him that I was going to buy the id4 he asked me why I wouldn't lease. I explained my reasons. He came back with benefits of leasing this vehicle because "you never know what its value will be at the end of the lease." I said that's true of of any car. But two more times during the buying process he kept reiterating the benefit of a lease over buying. I finally said, "I'm buying the car, not leasing!" When everything was done, one of the other managers greeted me as I was heading out to get into my car and go home and he asked, what was the reason I didn't lease? Has anyone else that has their car been grilled about leasing vs buying?
Car dealers. You’ll never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy.
 

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ID.4 Pro S Gradient AWD pre-ordered 9/23/2020
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Gosh, I'm sorry you had that experience. I've bought seemingly countless vehicles over the years and have never had that experience (thank goodness!). My VW dealer has actually been the easiest to deal with, because the salesman I worked with did such a high volume that he wasn't commission based. He was salaried, so his approach never included any kind of pressure. He offered you a good deal and that was that. Unfortunately, he unexpectedly passed away a few years ago, and the ID.4 will be the first VW I'm purchasing from this dealer since. I hope the same no-nonsense approach remains or I'll be sorely disappointed.
 

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I went in with my terms for financing expressed and understood before I left my house. However the finance guy did come in to the sales guy's office with lease vs purchase numbers. Told me the lease was cheaper and I could just buy it at the end. I multiplied the lease payments and added the buyout number and down payment. I multiplied the finance payments and added the down payment. He gave me this "gotcha" look then I subtracted the $7500 fed incentive. Buying was a few thousand cheaper. He said, "well you don't actually get that money." I said, "uh, with my tax situation, yes, I do. It's different for everyone - you have to have at least $7500 in liability to get the full benefit. I do." He said "oh I didn't know that." Ok, finance guy. Maybe it's something you should figure out if you're gonna sell electric vehicles.
 

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I went in with my terms for financing expressed and understood before I left my house. However the finance guy did come in to the sales guy's office with lease vs purchase numbers. Told me the lease was cheaper and I could just buy it at the end. I multiplied the lease payments and added the buyout number and down payment. I multiplied the finance payments and added the down payment. He gave me this "gotcha" look then I subtracted the $7500 fed incentive. Buying was a few thousand cheaper. He said, "well you don't actually get that money." I said, "uh, with my tax situation, yes, I do. It's different for everyone - you have to have at least $7500 in liability to get the full benefit. I do." He said "oh I didn't know that." Ok, finance guy. Maybe it's something you should figure out if you're gonna sell electric vehicles.
Exactly. I don't have that liability (soon will though). So leasing can be the lesser of 2 evils. Alas all this runs against the advice of personal finance for dummies: always buy used...
 

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ID.4 Pro S Gradient AWD pre-ordered 9/23/2020
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Exactly. I don't have that liability (soon will though). So leasing can be the lesser of 2 evils. Alas all this runs against the advice of personal finance for dummies: always buy used...
Ah yes, the old, "all decisions should be made without the human component" problem. Fact is, there's much more to owning a vehicle than just the financial component. Also, everyone's financial situation, goals, and means are very different, so there is not one-size-fits-all advice that can be given. But I digress...
 

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Okay, I'm going to flaunt my total ignorance here... Is my understanding correct that if you lease the car, the dealer takes the $7,500 off the price, as they get that money, but if you buy the car you get to take that amount off your tax liability (assuming your liability is equal to or greater than that amount)? And does "tax liability" mean "the amount of federal taxes that you owe?"
 

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Okay, I'm going to flaunt my total ignorance here... Is my understanding correct that if you lease the car, the dealer takes the $7,500 off the price, as they get that money, but if you buy the car you get to take that amount off your tax liability (assuming your liability is equal to or greater than that amount)? And does "tax liability" mean "the amount of federal taxes that you owe?"
That's exactly the way I understand it. So if I owe say, $10,000 in fed taxes next year, I claim that credit and I only owe $2,500 - which is $7,500 in my pocket.
If I lease it, the lessor takes the $7,500 (presumably on credit in their taxes) - but it's as good as cash unless your tax liability is under $7,500.
 

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ID.4 Pro S Gradient AWD pre-ordered 9/23/2020
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That's exactly the way I understand it. So if I owe say, $10,000 in fed taxes next year, I claim that credit and I only owe $2,500 - which is $7,500 in my pocket.
If I lease it, the lessor takes the $7,500 (presumably on credit in their taxes) - but it's as good as cash unless your tax liability is under $7,500.
I'll clarify by saying the $7,500 from the Federal gov't is a tax credit (if you're buying) not a tax deduction, so your annual tax liability (i.e., how much the IRS says you should've paid in Federal income tax throughout the tax year in question) needs to be at least $7,500 to utilize the full EV credit. You do not have to owe at least $7,500 in taxes on April 15 (i.e., opposite of a tax refund, and not a lot of people want to find themselves in!) in order to utilize the EV credit, which is a common misconception. Another common misconception is that you have to itemize your deductions to claim the EV credit. Again, it's a credit, not a deduction. One thing people do to realize the tax credit more immediately rather than waiting for tax filing, is reduce their withholding accordingly to offset ~$7,500 in tax liability that the EV credit would realize at tax filing. This effectively gives you money back in each paycheck instead of giving it back to you when you file your taxes for the year in which you purchased the ID.4. Talk to your accountant if you have questions.

Leasing is a completely different situation and eligibility for the $7,500 credit has nothing to do with your personal finance or tax situation. The lessor (i.e., the financial institution which actually owns the vehicle you're leasing) may be eligible for the credit and they may pass it onto you as the lessee. Not all leasing companies actually get the full $7,500, nor do all leasing companies treat the credit the same. I suspect VW Credit will be passing the full $7,500 onto ID.4 lessees, but I don't think it's an absolute guarantee with all leasing companies.
 

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Older information but may help put a little perspective on the tax credit:

"the taxable income on a 2018 tax return after subtracting the standard deduction or itemized deductions must be near $52,000 for the tax liability to be about $7500."
 

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Hi - I'm new here, but wanted to jump in with some actual costs since my ID.4 FE came in and I test drove and talked $$ with the dealer. For context, I had a 2015 e-Golf which I leased, and currently own a 2018 e-Golf which I really love! I'll never get another fossil car! I wasn't so impressed with the ID.4 after I drove it (too big, heavy and slow for me) and cancelled my order, but wanted to share the leasing costs since I thought they were high and was one of the reasons I cancelled. I have an AWD on order, so we'll see how that one is.

I've attached an excerpt of the dealer contract (from 3/22/21) so you can see the numbers. Note the the $45,190 includes the standard VW delivery charge of $1,200 (i.e. there is no markup above MSRP), and they they have already reduced the capitalized cost by the $7,500 tax credit. Bottom line - $600/mo seems like a lot for a $37,690 car.

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I've attached an excerpt of the dealer contract (from 3/22/21) so you can see the numbers. Note the the $45,190 includes the standard VW delivery charge of $1,200 (i.e. there is no markup above MSRP), and they they have already reduced the capitalized cost by the $7,500 tax credit. Bottom line - $600/mo seems like a lot for a $37,690 car.
Maybe play around with this lease hacker calculator, cause it seems like they're not giving you the standard deal. Im in the Chicago area and I'm showing $505 pre tax with $0 down for 39 months. $560 with tax. If you bundle in the upfront fees then you're closer to $600.
 

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Thanks LittleJoe; calculator is NICE! FYI, I'm in the Boston area, so maybe the dealers here are more greedy. ;) Also, since I didn't want the car I didn't spend any effort trying to get a better deal, and I'm interested in seeing how other folks make out.
 

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Thanks LittleJoe; calculator is NICE! FYI, I'm in the Boston area, so maybe the dealers here are more greedy. ;) Also, since I didn't want the car I didn't spend any effort trying to get a better deal, and I'm interested in seeing how other folks make out.
Your dealer fees are high at 449+669 but that depends somewhat on the state. See this thread: Leasing info for FE for the offer most were getting on a FE lease of $449 a month. I have not seen how many have come close to that number.
 

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49 on 10k/y and 46 on 15k/y
 

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Thanks! Any idea what the RV is for 7.5K? And does the the MF change as well?

I’m retired and do not travel by car as much as I used to.
 
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