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Just follow my guide. You'll be alright.
Your guide definitely helps (thank you) and while knowing what to accept and not accept helped, the process was still extremely frustrating. My dealer tried to raise MSRP, charge for other little things and overall just had me spend two hours on the "let me talk to my manager" thing before I could get back to the official MSRP with no extras (I could not get them to waive doc fees). I think as others have pointed out, the entire process has been extremely frustrating and then ending with the "dealer" experience when it should be about excitement about the new car is a real shame. As someone who thinks a lot about the long term value of customer retention and referrals at work I really can't see the math that makes it beneficial for VW to allow the dealers these shenanigans.
 

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In 55 years of purchasing vehicles I have only one good experience with a new car dealer. I actually did not purchase my ID4 1st edition the dealer I ordered an Id4 Pro S from. I backed out of my order because of the dealer's poor customer service. Then I found another dealer that would sell me an ID4 1st edition. I jumped at it. But I am not overjoyed with the second dealer either. I think one of the reasons that Tesla is so popular, aside from the fact it is an awesome car, is the direct ordering process. No dealer shenanigans! By the way, I have learned that some dealers DO NOT have a charging station. They plug their ID4 1st edition demo into a 110 outlet with the VW provided EVSE. So much for providing customer service!
 

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ID.4 1st Edition White / Lunar Grey
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I've traveled out of area 4x (airplane or train) to buy cars and those taught me to handle all negotiations beforehand. There's not much room for shenanigans when all the numbers are already on paper. I think the sales team treats this more transactional than a walk-in buyer .

My ID4 purchase deviated from this approach, but I set the stage up front by saying "I'm looking to pay sticker," and that was the entirety of the pre-negotiation. I was mildly disappointed there were $600 in BS add-ons, but I lucked out and managed to duck half of them.

I know I'm repeating myself but this VW order process sets the buyer up for a bad experience if there are no ground rules in place prior to delivery. It's too bad VW couldn't have done this but declaring a flat price and financing framework, but absent this, it's contingent upon the buyer to see to these details prior to clicking Submit Order.
 

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2021 1st
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It's too bad VW couldn't have done this but declaring a flat price and financing framework, but absent this, it's contingent upon the buyer to see to these details prior to clicking Submit Order.
I don't think we should let VW off the hook here. The reason we know the money factor, residual, and finance interest rate is because of customers sharing that information. VW could certainly post it clearly on their site and have a print-out for them to take to a dealership.
 

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My only good experience with a dealer was a few years ago when I purchased a vehicle without ever seeing it or visiting the dealership. I test drove the vehicle at a local dealer. Then I went on line and negotiated with three different dealers by email and text both the price of the new vehicle and the trade in of my vehicle. I never saw anyone in person until I went to pick up the new vehicle. Since all negotiations were already done, I signed a few papers, gave them a check, and I was off in my new car. Only returned to the dealer for its first free oil change and check up. Never saw the dealer again! The purchase of my ID4 was almost like that, except I had no trade in-I sold it two weeks before.
 

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ID.4 1st Edition White / Lunar Grey
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I don't think we should let VW off the hook here. The reason we know the money factor, residual, and finance interest rate is because of customers sharing that information. VW could certainly post it clearly on their site and have a print-out for them to take to a dealership.
But it's deeper than that! I knew about the 1.85% interest rate only because it was on VW's website. The dealer played dumb for a minute but didn't really put up a challenge once I said that's what I wanted.

You've got that previous buyer earlier in this thread where the dealer outright refused to give him the MF or APR he qualified for, basically holding the car hostage.

So sure VW could do better, they could have presented a complete online package, but they really need to reign in the dealerships who are ultimately responsible for the sense of satisfaction the customer walks away with, even if the animosity is focused (rightly or wrongly) on the brand.
 

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I agree with what you're saying. I'm not optimistic because I get the impression VW benefits from this mom vs. dad situation they've set up where they feign inability to reign in their dealerships under the claim of them being "independent."

There are relatively easy solutions they could do if they really wanted to address this.
 

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ID.4 ProS Gradient Dusk Blue waiting in North Hills?
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I think it's more complicated than that.
 

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They certainly benefit from people believing it's more complicated than it is.

VW Corporate doesn't set pricing because they claim they have to leave it to their independent dealerships. The dealerships refuse to honor the terms set by VW Credit unless you find a reputable one and/or somehow exert some leverage over their shenanigans.

VW Credit, however, is a completely different entity. They could advertise their financing terms just like every other lending institution in the US currently does. Everyone reading this can go check their credit union/bank lending page and there will be a prominently displayed lending terms page. I can't really think of a good reason VW Credit doesn't do this other than they have a captive audience.
 

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2021 VW ID.4 1st Edition, Dusk Blue <3
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Just purchased my ID.4 today and had a pretty good experience at Emich VW in Denver! They said I'm the 2nd ID.4 owner in the state I'll post later tonight with more details about the dealer experience for those who are interested.

P.S. Can we start a Denver/Colorado thread? There isn't one yet as far as I'm aware, but I've seen others for like San Diego, Chicago, etc.
Ok, I'm finally writing up my dealer experience! It's very late so I might only write part of it right now, then come back for the rest tomorrow or later this weekend. Been working way too late every day this week 😩

Ok so. My car arrived at Emich VW late on Saturday evening, right as my salesperson was leaving work for the day. Dealers aren't open on Sundays in CO by law, so that meant I had to wait until Monday to pick it up. I got to the dealer a little before 1pm on Monday, and took my ID.4 out for an hour+ test drive, while the dealer took my 2017 Golf Alltrack that I wanted to trade-in for appraisal. Took the ID.4 back home for my wife to check it out a little bit and had her drive it around the block, just to make sure there wasn't anything that jumped out at her as a total dealbreaker (she generally doesn't care about car stuff at all, she just wants to drive an EV that feels comfortable). When I got back to the dealer, the appraisal was done on the Alltrack and my salesman Travis was ready to start paperwork with me.

I'll try not to dig too deep into every single step of the process, but here's something of an overview. I had a quote for the Alltrack from CarMax for $20,600; dealer offered me $19,000 to trade it in (which was near the very top of the KBB range). Travis had already written out the math for me on how much I would save on taxes if I traded it in vs selling separately, since CO allows tax reduction with trade-ins, and with the tax reduction, the effective value I was getting for it was around $20,300 I think, so just $300 less than the CarMax quote, so I went ahead with the trade-in. I also brought a $7500 cashier's check for down payment, and add my $500 deposit to that for $8000 down payment on top of my trade-in (apologies, I'm not looking at the paperwork right now so I can't give completely exact numbers for everything).

So, financing terms. I had an approved loan from PenFed for a 72 month loan at 2.39%, while the quotes Travis originally sent me for dealer financing were offering 3.08% for 72 months (I believe I've seen on here that VW Credit is officially offering 2.89% for 72 month, so seems Emich was trying to make some extra profit there). I was fairly sure that the dealer wouldn't be able to match PenFed and I was prepared to go with the PenFed loan, but before heading to the dealer, Travis confirmed to me in an email that they would in fact be able to match the 2.39 for a 72 month loan! So I didn't need PenFed after all.

Finally, all in all, with my $8000 down payment, Alltrack trade-in, and 2.39% 72 month loan, I'm looking at $472/mo payments, which is happily a bit lower than the maximum monthly payment I had mentally set for myself, and I'm quite satisfied with it. $8000 was a big chunk of change for me, but I was able to front that knowing I'll get $7500 back from the federal EV credit early next year, plus $2500 from the CO EV rebate (for some reason Travis said they were unable to apply the CO rebate at point of sale, which they're normally supposed to be able to do). And, as @femich has promised elsewhere on this forum, the car was priced at MSRP, with the dealer handling fee included within the MSRP, and no extras or anything fishy thrown in on top of that.

The only somewhat negative part of the experience was that once I had settled all the terms with Travis, I did get sent into the finance guy's office. He had a whole spiel about all the protection packages they offer (which I let him talk through because I'm generally not particularly aggressive), and when he was done talking I just said I was gonna skip all of that. He did act all surprised and said something like he didn't think I was the kind of guy to skip on protections, but to be fair, he didn't pressure me at all or try to force me into anything; I said I didn't want any protections, and that was that, aside from the (probably fake) surprised-pikachu-face on his part.

OH yeah, and the other negative was that I had specifically asked Travis ahead of time to make sure the dealer did NOT install their own badging on the back of the car when it arrived, but they did it anyway. And unfortunately I was too excited/caught up to notice until I got home after completing the purchase. I texted Travis asking about that, and he shifted the blame, claiming he did tell the service guys (or whoever) not to put the badge on there but they did it anyway, and honestly I'm somewhat inclined to believe him, since he's been pretty good in all other aspects. But anyway, he said when I bring the car back for the double check, they will remove the badge for me. So, acceptable enough outcome for me personally on that front.

I think that's everything...this post is wayyyy long, so I should probably just post and come back later if I remember anything else. Overall, not absolutely perfect, but definitely a thumbs up from me for Emich Volkswagen and @femich 👍 I am absolutely loving our new car so far! We named it illyID, pronounced basically like the "Iliad".....it's a really silly story behind that name lol. Ask if you're curious :) And uh, mods, if this is too long, I understand if it disappears lol
 

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2021 VW ID.4 1ed Ed
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My 1stE arrived at the dealer around 4/16, and the dealer called me 4/20 and asked me to come in the next day. However, since we were leaving on a vacation the next day I scheduled the transaction for the day after our return (5/5) and asked the dealer to email me the OTD price and a breakdown of charges. I specified no trade, lease or dealer financing.

Yesterday the dealer’s finance manage called to explain that the “$7500 incentive” would be credited on a lease, but if I purchased outright I would NOT be able to claim the $7500 tax credit at year end. I questioned that, and not only did he repeatedly confirm his statement but he indicated that VW corporate had clearly indicated that this was the case. I was surprised and frustrated and told him I would be calling VW Customer Care.

Right after that call, as I was dialing VW, the dealer called back and with no apology offered a “clarification“ to indicate that I would indeed be eligible for the end of year tax credit.

Either the dealer was trying to pressure me into a lease or they were grossly ill informed and/or incompetent. Still waiting for the OTD figures.
 

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My 1stE arrived at the dealer around 4/16, and the dealer called me 4/20 and asked me to come in the next day. However, since we were leaving on a vacation the next day I scheduled the transaction for the day after our return (5/5) and asked the dealer to email me the OTD price and a breakdown of charges. I specified no trade, lease or dealer financing.

Yesterday the dealer’s finance manage called to explain that the “$7500 incentive” would be credited on a lease, but if I purchased outright I would NOT be able to claim the $7500 tax credit at year end. I questioned that, and not only did he repeatedly confirm his statement but he indicated that VW corporate had clearly indicated that this was the case. I was surprised and frustrated and told him I would be calling VW Customer Care.

Right after that call, as I was dialing VW, the dealer called back and with no apology offered a “clarification“ to indicate that I would indeed be eligible for the end of year tax credit.

Either the dealer was trying to pressure me into a lease or they were grossly ill informed and/or incompetent. Still waiting for the OTD figures.
It's not up to the dealer or Volkswagen how much of the $7500 tax credit you qualify for, that's entirely between you and the IRS. Make sure your tax liability is high enough.
 

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2021 VW ID.4 1ed Ed
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It's not up to the dealer or Volkswagen how much of the $7500 tax credit you qualify for, that's entirely between you and the IRS. Make sure your tax liability is high enough.
I understand the obvious, as you indicated. I’m very familiar with tax planning.

However when the dealer tells me something unexpected that could potentially cost me $7500, I still need to confirm that I’m right and they’re not.
 

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ID.4 Pro, Mythos Black
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Most likely we all know more about this car and it's financials than any dealership because we've done our research.

The only thing dealerships know about is sales and maximizing profit. Period. They know jack about automobiles. The only people I would take advice from is the German engineers who designed this car :)
 

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ID.4 Pro S AWD / Waiting, waiting, waiting
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The $7,500 federal tax credit is not the dealer's to give to anyone. It is between the IRS and whoever/whatever buys the car. If you lease a car, the tax credit goes to the lessor (i.e., the financial institution that buys the car in order to lease it to you.) The leasing company is confident enough about the federal tax credit that they will receive as purchaser of the car that they offer it up-front when they calculate your lease payments.

If you buy the car outright, then as owner you become the one who is eligible for the $7,500 credit toward your income taxes for the year in which the car is purchased. Let's say you buy the car in 2021 and your income taxes come in at $10,000 for the year. You get a $7,500 discount off of your tax bill and you now owe only $2,500. Depending on withholding from your paycheck and whatever IRS payments you've made for 2021, you'll either get a refund or reduce what you would have otherwise owed by $7,500. Your 2021 income tax bill will be settled sometime prior to April 15, 2022.

Again, whether you lease or buy, the dealer has nothing to do with the tax credit.
 

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ID4 1St Edition
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Update 2: VW customer care called me. The answer was pretty useless, but I believe reaching out to VW fixed the dealer behavior to some extent (more details below). So, I encourage you to reach out to VW customer care select option 2 to talk to an EV advocate and tell them about the dealer shenanigans.

VW CC rep called me and told me the dealer had told them that the reason for my complaint was that I did not know MSRP does not include taxes and fees. I told her I am not nuts, and I had bought multiple cares before. My complaint was that the dealer has jacked up the Money Factor and squeezing other costs into it and said this is set in stone. At the same time, folks around the country got lower MF and APR for finance. She responded that she could only provide my feedback to the dealer; they are independently operated partners. For financial issues, I may reach VW credit. I gave her a rant about how this behavior will eventually screw VW E-mobility.

Shortly after that call, I received a call from the dealership. He apologized that he has not been transparent. He said that he is here to make some profit, which is why he has increased the MF. I told him about the numbers I got from the forum. So, all of a sudden, he said that he could offer MF .00143, and the monthly lease went down from $630 to $582 for 10K miles (residual 49%).

Regarding finance from initial APR 3.81, he said that the lowest VW offers on ID4 with credit score 740+ is 2.06%, which is a massive drop of 1.75%. I told him they get a lower invoice price + VW kickbacks + rebates, so he should not try to squeeze $1800 on my $20,000 lease. So, it seems the VW call had some positive impact.

I am still getting lower numbers based on my calculations (See LEASEHACKER), around $550. Can anyone tell me if I am missing anything?
Update 3: I posted last week about my experience with a dealership in Northern California. Here is the last update. It seems contacting VW customer care was very impactful. Everything after that went smoothly. I went in last Wed, and I leased the car. The dealer had an online system; I provided my information in advance. When I got there, all the paperwork was down in less than 20 min. I drove the car by only paying $149 (I owed $649 - $500 deposit). I have to pay another 35 payments of $582.72 [lease details below]. The dealership owner spent well over an hour going over every feature and functionality of the car. In the end, he said to make up for the rough start we had; he will give me monster mats for the car for free. I wish that were the experience initially, and I did not have to go to VW. The one-week delay in getting the car had a consequence, CA $2000 Clean Vehicle Rebate fund exhausted on Apr 23. Now I have to stay on a waitlist to see if the fund will be replenished.

Thank you ExCivilian for sharing your lease info; it helped me to get to the right price. Here is my lease info in case anyone wants to use it.
Selling price: $45,190 (MSRP + destination fee)
Doc fee: $85
Acquisation fee: $699
Cap fees: $619
Cap Taxes: $793
Rebates reduction: $8,417 ($9,000 rebate: Fed $7,500 + CA $1,500)
Customer cash: $500 + $149= $649
MF: 0.00143
Term 36
Monthly paymet: $582.72 (35 left)

I did the math comparing the lease with financing with APR 2.06 for 60-month. If you want to own the vehicle at the end, finance made more sense, and you could save $2,000 t0 $2,600. But, I decided not to take the risk because this is the first true EV VW made. I was unsure how well they could handle the Information technology, and I do not know the range for batteries in three years. So, I went with the lease.

So far, I like the ride and the build quality of the car. But information technology has room for improvement. Car-Net has been underwhelming. It is only a remote climate control and not even offering remote locking (apparently fewer features than Car-Net on other VWs). I also got a prompt for an OTA update, but that did not go through, so I am waiting for the final verdict.
 

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HI Everyone. Awaiting arrival of my ID4. Have never leased before but leaning towards it since car is a first generation. Who determines the money factor, dealership or other entity?
 
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