Add Yours: VW ID. Buzz Owner's Registry

Dealer Shenanigans

6185 Views 22 Replies 17 Participants Last post by MakeItWain, 5 mo ago

jwaters943

Discussion Starter · Aug 16, 2021

Well, I may not be joining the ranks after all. Just emailed back and forth with my sales rep regarding my ID.4 Pro S AWD order which is due to arrive in 6-7 weeks. Basically I just wanted to confirm I wouldn’t be subject to a “market rate adjustment markup”. I became concerned when I found out they have 5 ID.4s on their lot, each with a $10k markup above MSRP in addition to $800 for Permaplate paint and fabric protection and $300 for BS window etching.

Long story short, he assured me there would be no additional markup besides the customary dealer documentation and destination charges with the exception of their $800 Permaplate fee that they “have to apply to all cars and can’t waive because they don’t make enough on the ID.4 to begin with.”

He is now saying we may have to cancel my order if I don’t agree to this fee which honestly I don’t know how I feel about. Don’t get me wrong, I really like most aspects of the ID.4, but I’m not in a huge rush to get a vehicle and dealing with dealership BS like this almost makes me want to go with a Tesla.

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Enzo589

· #2 · Aug 16, 2021

I would contact another dealership and discuss with them. You can change the dealership you want to pick up from, unless it’s locked in and the site won’t let you any longer.

mlsstl

· #3 · Aug 16, 2021

Contact Dustin Krause (Director) at VW corporate at [email protected]. And, let the dealer know you are contacting them. If you read through some of the threads on this site, you'll find that VW has the dealers on a fairly short leash concerning orders placed though the reservation system.

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Johnny_id4

· #4 · Aug 16, 2021

That's crazy. I thought part of the launch of this car was to make this as hassle free as possible?The mark up would go against this.

When I was in the market to buy this car, I visited my dealership that had a total of 10 id4's all in RWD. They were willing to sell at MSRP, but a dealership in a different city nearby was marking it up by 3-5k.

See if you could contact a different dealer willing to sell at MSRP or call corporate as someone has mentioned. Whatever you do, you shouldn't have to pay over MSRP for this car and let the dealership take more money from you.

jgoodnough

· #5 · Aug 16, 2021

I remember reading somewhere that any orders placed through reservations could not be sold at anything above MSRP. I think it may have been related to state laws, so perhaps it doesn't apply to every state. I'd be inclined to push back to VW corporate too.

Tinman

· #6 · Aug 16, 2021

jgoodnough said:
I remember reading somewhere that any orders placed through reservations could not be sold at anything above MSRP. I think it may have been related to state laws, so perhaps it doesn't apply to every state. I'd be inclined to push back to VW corporate too.

That would have been a result of corporate jawboning or dealer allocation adjustments, not a legally enforceable policy on the part of VAG or VWoA. It was clear on the early reservation page that dealers have the final say in pricing.

The power of dealers' legally enforceable agreements with automakers in the whole auto manufacturing and sales process would probably startle a lot of people.

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jwaters943

Discussion Starter · #7 · Aug 16, 2021

Thanks for the suggestions. I live in Reno, NV and the next closest VW dealer is 130 miles away in Sacramento, CA which complicates things. Part of the reason I decided on the ID.4 was due to local availability. Having leased my last 2 EVs from CA dealerships is a hassle since there is more paperwork and they have to deliver the vehicle to you across state lines to avoid having to pay CA sales tax.

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jgoodnough

· #8 · Aug 16, 2021

Is there a "wall of shame" thread on the forum to expose dealers who are bilking their customers like this? When a dealer tells you they don't make enough money on a $50k car sale you know they have zero respect for you and are happy to lie to you. What they're really concerned about is lack of recurring revenue from service and repairs in the future.

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Johnny_id4

· #9 · Aug 16, 2021

jgoodnough said:
When a dealer tells you they don't make enough money on a $50k car sale you know they have zero respect for you and are happy to lie to you.

When I bought my ID4 from my dealer, first thing I asked him was if he was willing to negotiate on the MSRP. He told me upfront that this dealer is selling at MSRP and they will not negotiate on the price. On the sticker price, other extra stuff that I didn't need were the roadside assistance, luggage net, and first aid kit that cost a couple hundred for each. I didn't mind taking them because it was bundle to the car I wanted to buy on the lot directly. I read somewhere that dealers make less money on EV then compared to gas cars. Perhaps someone can confirm on this?

Anyways, he told me that VW corporate wanted to get as many EVs to the customer and that they need to move these cars into customers hands. After he told me that, he left us alone to talk it over without any pressure to buying the car. I decided to pull the trigger with a deposit that I put down with one of the id4's they already had on the lot for sale. Needed to wait for my lease to be over with my previous car before taking ownership of the id4. This was one of the easiest car buying experience I have had.

The only part that was tricky is saying no to all the extra protection and warranty from the dealer and I was able to turn that down easier than I thought compared to my past buying experience.

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CentCoastScott

· #10 · Aug 16, 2021

The last time I bought a new car was in 2004, and frankly, I really dislike the process.

I was nervous last week when I went to buy my ID, but had a great experience. They honored the low money factor on the lease, didn't add on any additional items, didn't try to sell me any additional services.

I paid MSRP. California has an addition $1500, so the MSRP was reduced by $9000. In addition, I've already applied for an additional grant from the state.

The only thing they missed was deducting the $500.00 deposit. They will be issuing me a check later this week.

Prost!

Mutriu

· #11 · Aug 16, 2021

Same thing happened with me here in Chicagoland. 2 week ago I went to change oil on my 2006 GTI MkV and my local VW dealer in Mt Prospect had one black ID4 in stock. I noticed that on the window sticker there were 2 extra things 1000 dollars each (one was paint and interior upholstery protection and the other- Free maintenance for 2 years that the factory is already giving you and is even written on the window sticker). The salesperson started explaining me that most Chicagoland dealers have 4000 dollars markups but unlike most dealers they are trying to offer "product" in return so they came up with these 2 baloney things and they will upsell you with ONLY 2000 dollars. I didn't believe him at all and decided to ask around. Luckily there are a lot of dealers around here so the first one that I contacted (Jennings in Glenview) had 5 in stock and they explained me over the phone that they don't charge anything above sticker whatsoever. I went there last week and drove back home with a brand new Dusk Blue metallic ID4 with Lunar Gray interior. No hassle sticker price plus HomeLink mirror 325 dollars and Rubber Mats 200 dollars that were already preinstalled in the car. Smooth, quick transaction.
The truth is that they are trying to push that reservation and firm sticker price thing like Tesla but there are greedy dealers in between us and the VW corporate so they will always try to milk more money from customers in any way they can. We just have to stay informed, ask around for pricing and options and let VW know how are their independent dealers being obstacles in between loyal customers and the product that they want and love so much.

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thomas_y3

· #12 · Aug 16, 2021

I contacted vw.com/chat months ago and asked abt bogus "dealer fees' and they gave me the typical corporate "saying nothing" response... "we (vw america) do not encourage charging above msrp, however, each dealership is independently owned and operated..." u get the picture. I ended up contacting multiple dealers to have then "promise in writing" via email that they will sell id 4's at msrp. then simply pick one for delivery. I ended up not following thru with the whole online order, selecting delivery dealership as I bought one off of a local dealer lot. good luck!

Reactions: 1

Magneaus

· #13 · Aug 16, 2021

jwaters943 said:
Well, I may not be joining the ranks after all. Just emailed back and forth with my sales rep regarding my ID.4 Pro S AWD order which is due to arrive in 6-7 weeks. Basically I just wanted to confirm I wouldn’t be subject to a “market rate adjustment markup”. I became concerned when I found out they have 5 ID.4s on their lot, each with a $10k markup above MSRP in addition to $800 for Permaplate paint and fabric protection and $300 for BS window etching.

Long story short, he assured me there would be no additional markup besides the customary dealer documentation and destination charges with the exception of their $800 Permaplate fee that they “have to apply to all cars and can’t waive because they don’t make enough on the ID.4 to begin with.” He is now saying we may have to cancel my order if I don’t agree to this fee which honestly I don’t know how I feel about. Don’t get me wrong, I really like most aspects of the ID.4, but I’m not in a huge rush to get a vehicle and dealing with dealership BS like this almost makes me want to go with a Tesla.

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I just turned in my Model 3 for an ID 4 and it almost didn’t happen for this very reason. I will say that one of the greatest things about owning a Tesla is that you don’t have to deal with a dealership, you order the car, you see all the numbers and you go pick it up. Although a great dealership is like a unicorn or finding Bigfoot, they are out there. I would encourage you to try one more time, the ID 4 is worth it.

Reactions: 1

Mkstach

· #14 · Aug 17, 2021

jwaters943 said:
Thanks for the suggestions. I live in Reno, NV and the next closest VW dealer is 130 miles away in Sacramento, CA which complicates things. Part of the reason I decided on the ID.4 was due to local availability. Having leased my last 2 EVs from CA dealerships is a hassle since there is more paperwork and they have to deliver the vehicle to you across state lines to avoid having to pay CA sales tax.

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This is the dealer I got my Pro from. After waiting so long I was unhappy about the ceramic coating charge but paid it anyway. I also had asked about bogus charges and was told there would not be any. The thing with Reno being the "Biggest Little City" is that sometimes the emphasis is on little. If you were in Sac or the Bay Area you would have a choice of dealers. I expressed my displeasure and said that this had soured the experience. I also expressed this on customer surveys. I see that was like spitting in the wind.
That being said, I love the Pro. Hope to see you some day at the EA station at Target.

Reactions: 1

jwaters943

Discussion Starter · #15 · Aug 17, 2021

Mkstach said:
This is the dealer I got my Pro from. After waiting so long I was unhappy about the ceramic coating charge but paid it anyway. I also had asked about bogus charges and was told there would not be any. The thing with Reno being the "Biggest Little City" is that sometimes the emphasis is on little. If you were in Sac or the Bay Area you would have a choice of dealers. I expressed my displeasure and said that this had soured the experience. I also expressed this on customer surveys. I see that was like spitting in the wind.
That being said, I love the Pro. Hope to see you some day at the EA station at Target.

Likewise! What color did you get? I will keep an eye out.

The thing is we just bought an Elantra Limited Hybrid from the Lithia dealer up the street and told them flat out we would walk if they didn’t deduct the paint protection fee and they did. I hate playing hardball, but I see no reason why I should be charged for something I do not want that has not been applied yet. I am meticulous about my car care and will be leasing the ID.4 so their justification that it includes a 5 year warranty and is applied to all their cars automatically doesn’t hold any weight with me.

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donpablopereira

· #16 · Nov 16, 2021

jwaters943 said:
Well, I may not be joining the ranks after all. Just emailed back and forth with my sales rep regarding my ID.4 Pro S AWD order which is due to arrive in 6-7 weeks. Basically I just wanted to confirm I wouldn’t be subject to a “market rate adjustment markup”. I became concerned when I found out they have 5 ID.4s on their lot, each with a $10k markup above MSRP in addition to $800 for Permaplate paint and fabric protection and $300 for BS window etching.

Long story short, he assured me there would be no additional markup besides the customary dealer documentation and destination charges with the exception of their $800 Permaplate fee that they “have to apply to all cars and can’t waive because they don’t make enough on the ID.4 to begin with.” He is now saying we may have to cancel my order if I don’t agree to this fee which honestly I don’t know how I feel about. Don’t get me wrong, I really like most aspects of the ID.4, but I’m not in a huge rush to get a vehicle and dealing with dealership BS like this almost makes me want to go with a Tesla.

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Tesla will do the same thing. People buying and selling at a profit on used car due to shortage and long delays. Ordered cars should have no markups and call VW USA and report it. Many Dealers forcing users to take add ons. If car not in port tell them not to add. A 2k mark up over MSRP is not unreasonable of yiu can fund car on lot now. I did.

melawman

· #17 · 5 mo ago (Edited by Moderator)

Many months ago I "reserved" an id4. 2022 passed and in December I was notified the order was "locked" and the vehicle was being built. Delivery estimated to be in late December or early January. The dealer rep called this week to advise they anticipated the car would be delivered in late January. Sarasota VW dealer. In the interim the MSRP went up on the website by $1500. When I spoke to the rep, I noted that when I ordered the car the price was to be the MSRP but the final deal was to be made with the dealership. When I asked about the $1500 price increase on the MSRP the TWO dealer salespersons I spoke with told me I would not get the car unless I paid their price. Extremely arrogant and ignorant salespeople. I was then told that the cash price with all the add ons, MSRP increase, taxes, title transfer, some kind of dealer fee, etc, etc would be more than $50,000. This was on a car with an original MSRP of $42495. I was also told the "reservation" was meaningless and the dealer owned the car and would sell it to whoever they deemed worthy, e.g. whoever would pay their price. I am 74 years old, have a perfectly good used Mercedes and a Honda Pilot and immediately cancelled the "order." Why would I want an overpriced Volkswagen with a sketchy charging network, questionalble software, mediocre performance and off a new assembly line at a high price? I am done with VW. The last car I bought my wife was a Honda Pilot. The next car I purchase will be either a Toyota or Honda hybrid or PHEV. As for the dealership, they can put the car where the sun does not shine. With billions of dollars being invested in EV plants in this country and innumerable EVs coming on the market in the future, why would I want to be stiuck with this POS. It is just a matter of time before the dealers are begging you to buy their cars. At my age I willl just drive what I have and avoid increasing my blood pressure by avoiding car dealerships.

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Nai3t

· #18 · 5 mo ago (Edited by Moderator)

melawman said:
...both with

Why why why is this a thing?

melawman said:
...I am 74 years old...

Doesn't excuse it.

melawman said:
Why would I want an overpriced Volkswagen

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This could mean a major challenge for TESLA financially. It means there is no profit to be made. However this will cut into ID.4 sale. Thoughts? Tesla Inc. TSLA 0.28%increase; green up pointing triangle cut prices for some of its vehicles sold in the U.S. by nearly 20%, aiming to lure new...

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melawman

· #19 · 5 mo ago (Edited by Moderator)

I am an adult. There IS a definite gap in comprehension and ethics between different groups. At the age of 74, I certainly have far more experience than you. Let me guess, you are nowhere near that age. I also had the experience of dealing with literally thousands of human beings during my career. If you believe there is no such difference or that ethics and cultural divides exist which affect communication, you are, very simply, in denial. Check the news today. So, do not give me the line that "everyone deserves respect." The people with whom I attempted to communicate in this dealership were arrogant and disrespectful from the outset and the entire process of dealing with VW tracks such disrespect. I will give Elon Musk credit. If you order a Tesla, it is an order. You get the car. The price is set. With VW and these minions, you get nothing, literally nothing, for waiting for months to do them the favor of buying their product. This is an arrogance which should not be condoned by anyone. You are similarly arrogant to attempt to brand me. As for the claim of being overpriced, I have purchased more than 40 vehicles during my lifettime, and I have never overpaid for any of them. VW in this country is NOT a premium brand, with products often being manufactured which are inferior to European models of the same product. Their reliability is always suspect, cost of maintenance is frequently excesssive compared to Japanese and Korean vehicles, and the prices comparing levels of equipment, are always higher. So, get over it. I am a person who lives in reality.

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Imafluffybunny

· #20 · 5 mo ago

In my short life experience after calling several VW dealerships, the ignorant, arrogant, and shady sales people I spoke with were the fast talking ones without a "foreign" accent.
The kinder ones had that accent you speak about.

Keep in mind that we are a global community. Everyone has an accent when they don't speak your particular native language. If you attempted to speak my native language you would have an accent. But I don't think you would appreciate being boxed in a certain category of unsavory individuals just because you have an accent.

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