[Aizome]

This is what I’ve run into far too often looking around in the PNW. Thankfully the bigger dealers mark reserved vehicles so it’s easier to check how many are cancellations.

All reserved orders show up as stock. The main question is if some are cancelled. Often they get listed as MSRP but when you call they hit you with the details. That being said, a different SoCal dealer was selling for MSRP plus $1500 of crap, but it sold before I could get there.

In a way I hope they are so I won't be tempted as I'm hoping the 2023's have updated software. None of these are marked reserved, but when you try the buy at home option, nothing is showing up except a Pro 2022.

 

[Perry Rhodan]

At most you will save $1400 / year on gas out of which you have to pay extra ev registration fee plus extra ev car insurance. In the end its usually a wash. And with a possible 25k battery replacement at 10 yrs, the risk is too much which is why the 7.5k rebate was an absolute requirement for evs to make economic sense.

Based on our previous GLA consumption and average monthly mileage we’re saving at least $4200 yearly. 24k km yearly at 9.5 litre per 100k with an average gas price of $2.20 per litre comes to $5k. Monthly cost of charging since January is on average $60. Add the $8k point of sale government rebates, now reduced sales tax and it’s a smoking deal.

Of course everyone results will vary. Because of our high gas cost and low electricity cost it’s more beneficial up here in BC.

 

[mrnadir]

Based on our previous GLA consumption and average monthly mileage we’re saving at least $4200 yearly. 24k km yearly at 9.5 litre per 100k with an average gas price of $2.20 per litre comes to $5k. Monthly cost of charging since January is on average $60. Add the $8k point of sale government rebates, now reduced sales tax and it’s a smoking deal.

Of course everyone results will vary. Because of our high gas cost and low electricity cost it’s more beneficial up here in BC.

Im in Texas. Gas is cheap. 10000 miles means 400 gallons of gas for a 25MPG car.
Id4 will do 90MPGE in texas since electricity is also cheap here (13c/KWh). (lets assume 100MPGe)
Gas is currently $3.25/gallon
So I will spend 400x3.25 for the year for the gas car = $1300
I will spend 100x3.25 for the year for the EV = $325
Savings = $975
I currently own a 2017 bmw 330i which does 26MPG combined.
Most insurance companies charge a a lot more for EVs.
Then there is that giant risk of spending $25K for a battery after 8 years. I was planning to keep my EV for at least 12 years.
This is why without that $7500, its just not worth it. And I wont be qualifying for a rebate until I retire. AGI above max allowed. Not sure if it makes any economic sense for anyone making less than $150k to be buying a $55K car.

 

[Nai3t]

Most insurance companies charge a a lot more for EVs.
Then there is that giant risk of spending $25K for a battery after 8 years.

Sorry, these are both not true.

There are insurance posts on this forum and there is no great and obvious difference, but of course there is variability in comparing any type of car. In my case, the ID.4 replaced a top-spec 5 year old Volvo S60 ($36,000 sticker in 2016) and Liberty Mutual actually lowered the annual premium by about $100. And the premium was close to parity when I replaced a 2013 Audi Allroad with a 2-year old 2017 BMW i3. So that EVs cost more to insure... well, I don't want to declare it a myth, but from what I've seen on these forums there's no clear cut price increase.

And the new battery after 8 years is just mythical at this point. The average owner hangs on to a car for just shy of 8 years, but there's also no great queue of owners of 8-year old EVs in need of battery replacement. Alternate to replacement, faced with a depleted battery, you'd let the car go as its value is low anyway, and replace it with something newer. But these will be outliers, these batteries ought to outlast the chassis up to 300,000 miles. As you suggest, there's risk -- there's always risk -- but it's not a giant risk.

 

[TimD]

This is why without that $7500, its just not worth it. And I wont be qualifying for a rebate until I retire. AGI above max allowed. Not sure if it makes any economic sense for anyone making less than $150k to be buying a $55K car.

I don't know if it makes economic sense to plunk down $55K for a car, but many of us old-timer retirees can afford a $55K car and we make much less than $150K.

 

[Nadrealista]

Im in Texas. Gas is cheap. 10000 miles means 400 gallons of gas for a 25MPG car.
Id4 will do 90MPGE in texas since electricity is also cheap here (13c/KWh). (lets assume 100MPGe)
Gas is currently $3.25/gallon
So I will spend 400x3.25 for the year for the gas car = $1300
I will spend 100x3.25 for the year for the EV = $325
Savings = $975
I currently own a 2017 bmw 330i which does 26MPG combined.
Most insurance companies charge a a lot more for EVs.
Then there is that giant risk of spending $25K for a battery after 8 years. I was planning to keep my EV for at least 12 years.
This is why without that $7500, its just not worth it. And I wont be qualifying for a rebate until I retire. AGI above max allowed. Not sure if it makes any economic sense for anyone making less than $150k to be buying a $55K car.

to calculate true cost of electricity for EV you use your miles per KWh average . For ID4 that is between 3 and 4 miles per KWh depending on the driving conditions/driver. Most local utilities will give you discount overnight electricity rate to charge (here in VA it is 5c/kwh) so 1 EV mile would costs 1.25c (@4mi/KWh ) or 1.66c (@3mi/KWh ) then multiply that by number of miles you will drive per year.

Premium gas for your BMW is $4 per gallon so at 10k miles per year that is ~$1600 vs $125/166 for electricity so almost $1500 of gas saving per year or $12,000 over 8 years, than add to that maintenance savings (no oil/filter changes/brakes/spark plugs/belts/etc), also add time savings not having to go to shop to do maintenance or fill the car at the pump ~264 times in those 8 years (you wake up to charged EV)...been driving EVs since 2014 and ownership cost and time savings are substantial vs gasoline powered car. not to mention driving experience of EV and power delivery is far superior to IC technology.

battery does not need replacing @ 8 years, it might be ~10/15% down on its capacity but should be perfectly fine to keep going. 200/300k miles should be easily achievable...

 

[Nycturne]

Sorry, these are both not true.

There are insurance posts on this forum and there is no great and obvious difference, but of course there is variability in comparing any type of car. In my case, the ID.4 replaced a top-spec 5 year old Volvo S60 ($36,000 sticker in 2016) and Liberty Mutual actually lowered the annual premium by about $100. And the premium was close to parity when I replaced a 2013 Audi Allroad with a 2-year old 2017 BMW i3. So that EVs cost more to insure... well, I don't want to declare it a myth, but from what I've seen on these forums there's no clear cut price increase.

Agree. I was talking with a friend and was being told "Watch out for those insurance costs!" related to EVs. So I asked my insurance provider (USAA) and they quoted me 1$ less per month for a 2022 ID.4 Pro S vs a 2019 Subaru Outback Touring. Close enough to call it a wash.

 

[SunWizard]

Teslas do cost more for insurance, so that is where that comment likely came from since they sell more EVs than everyone else. I agree that for ID.4 the insurance does not cost more, mine was less than the old 2015 jeep it replaced.

 

[jcohnc]

Traveler's (aka Standard Fire) has included an "Electric Vehicle Discount" on their plans for awhile now. After adding the ID.4 to my plan, the annual cost dropped by a small amount even though the vehicle is worth 2X more than the previous SUV that was on there.

 

[JSS328]

AARP - Hartford say it will cost $144.00 more/year than the 2021 Subaru Outback it replaces. The ID.4 is not in its database and rate was determined by spec/msrp.

 

[PANZERidIV]

GEICO charged me less than I was paying elsewhere(22 year client with that other company) than my 2019 Jetta that cost about 1/3 as much.

 

[Nycturne]

Teslas do cost more for insurance, so that is where that comment likely came from since they sell more EVs than everyone else.

That makes me very curious about the data on the actuarial tables. Because that suggests that Tesla owners are considered higher risk by some metric.

 

[BrianFellows]

That makes me very curious about the data on the actuarial tables. Because that suggests that Tesla owners are considered higher risk by some metric.

Could also be that Teslas are expensive to repair, right?

 

[MakeItWain]

Just saying that it's always going to be worth quoting with numerous carriers online/going with a local agency in order to find the best rate available. Each will have a different premium quote based on competitive factors and the info you provide.

I would just caution over reducing coverages/limits vs just finding a better rate/carrier, of course.

 

[Mrcleop]

That makes me very curious about the data on the actuarial tables. Because that suggests that Tesla owners are considered higher risk by some metric.

I mean, they sleep while the car’s on autopilot and drive 100mph on salt flats with their 3 daughters in the back.

Also insurance rates are dependent on vehicle price.

 

[pezzy668]

Then there is that giant risk of spending $25K for a battery after 8 years. I was planning to keep my EV for at least 12 years.

What is this nonsense about a $25k battery after 8 years? The battery doesn't just go kaput the day after the warranty expires. This is like saying the engine and transmission in an ICE just drops dead the day after the warranty expires - guess a VW gasser is only good for 4 years and your looking at a $5k engine and $5k transmission (guesstimates) at 4 years 1 day.

 

[Ben V]

Not sure if I am seeing this right, but VW of Pasadena (for those in SoCal) just got like 14 in stock. They go for MSRP.... I really want to go for a 2023, but this is tempting.

None of them are in stock, they are all pre-orders. They all say they have a sale pending or are 'in transit'. I got mine from VW Pasadena and one day while I was still waiting I went there to check the cars they supposedly had according to the website but there were none on the lot because if it's a preorder it gets picked up within a day or two. They only had one or two demo cars even when the website would show them as having 15.

 

[mrnadir]

I don't know if it makes economic sense to plunk down $55K for a car, but many of us old-timer retirees can afford a $55K car and we make much less than $150K.

Agreed. Thats why my next chance would be after I retire.

 

[mrnadir]

What is this nonsense about a $25k battery after 8 years? The battery doesn't just go kaput the day after the warranty expires. This is like saying the engine and transmission in an ICE just drops dead the day after the warranty expires - guess a VW gasser is only good for 4 years and your looking at a $5k engine and $5k transmission (guesstimates) at 4 years 1 day.

The risk of it going kaput after 8 years is extremely high. And we are talking about 20K-30K. Not a small number. Engines dont go completely dead after warranty. They are easily repairable for much much less. You cant repair battery packs. At least not now. Tesla is making sure that new battery packs are impossible to repair. I think the industry is addicted to revenue stream and will make battery packs subscription based.

 

[mrnadir]

None of them are in stock, they are all pre-orders. They all say they have a sale pending or are 'in transit'. I got mine from VW Pasadena and one day while I was still waiting I went there to check the cars they supposedly had according to the website but there were none on the lot because if it's a preorder it gets picked up within a day or two. They only had one or two demo cars even when the website would show them as having 15.

What ever they are, the number keeps climbing every day. Buyers of ID4 are not like tesla fanboys and wont easily buy the cars without the tax rebate specially given that the rebate would like be back next year.