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That makes me very curious about the data on the actuarial tables. Because that suggests that Tesla owners are considered higher risk by some metric.
Yes, tesla uses too many aluminum panels which are difficult to repair. I agree, tesla insurance is way more than that of ID4. Which is one of the biggest reason i was interested in the id4.
 

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The risk of it going kaput after 8 years is extremely high. And we are talking about 20K-30K. Not a small number. Engines dont go completely dead after warranty. They are easily repairable for much much less. You cant repair battery packs. At least not now. Tesla is making sure that new battery packs are impossible to repair. I think the industry is addicted to revenue stream and will make battery packs subscription based.
It sounds like ICE vehicles fit your needs/budget quite well and an EV might not be a good option for you. Waiting to see if warranties get longer or batteries prove themselves might give you more piece of mind. We'll know a lot more in 5 to 10 years. And there will be a lot of new EV vehicles to pick from.
 

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Discussion Starter · #143 ·
The risk of it going kaput after 8 years is extremely high. And we are talking about 20K-30K. Not a small number. Engines dont go completely dead after warranty. They are easily repairable for much much less. You cant repair battery packs. At least not now. Tesla is making sure that new battery packs are impossible to repair. I think the industry is addicted to revenue stream and will make battery packs subscription based.
I think CA has a law written that the battery is guaranteed for 10 years. It overrules the 8 year manufacturer warranty. I could be wrong. 10 years for a car is a LONG freaking time in this era of technology. Do you realize how antiquated that touchscreen is gonna feel in 10 years in the VW ID.4 with the piano black plastic gloss? The tech not lasting 10 years, or being buggy and not upgraded in the ID.4 is a far bigger concern than the battery.
 

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What ever they are, the number keeps climbing every day. Buyers of ID4 are not like tesla fanboys and wont easily buy the cars without the tax rebate specially given that the rebate would like be back next year.
The number keeps climbing as VW is getting back to a normal delivery cadence in the US, rather than the zero deliveries a week they had for a not-insignificant period of time. But just counting what has left the port doesn’t tell you what’s happening with them by itself.

If it was true cars were sitting on lots going unsold, I’d own an ID.4 by now. Under the new rules, I am just outside the tax rebate eligibility, so I get 0$ either way. Why wait for a 2023 which is more expensive? But no. There are no unsold cars that I can put money down on in my region, and I’ve been looking. I’ve even been told by a couple dealers my best shot is to reserve one. Odd thing to say if these are becoming readily available, isn’t it?

The risk of it going kaput after 8 years is extremely high. And we are talking about 20K-30K. Not a small number. Engines dont go completely dead after warranty. They are easily repairable for much much less. You cant repair battery packs. At least not now.
You are going to have to define “kaput” and “extremely high risk” here. Batteries generally degrade over time, rather than outright fail. When lithium batteries do fail like that, it’s usually because they simply haven’t been charged in too long and discharged too far to be recoverable. I’ve done this on accident myself with power tool batteries, but a car battery isn’t likely to hit this with the usage patterns cars have. The BMS used in cars is going to be better at battery health management in general than the cheap chargers used in other applications as well.

As for repairability, the MEB platform uses a modular pack where single modules in the pack can be replaced in case of faults. There is a financial benefit to VW by being able to keep warranty repairs cheap(er) in the face of growing lithium demand. So in the case of cells that do outright fail, the modules are replaceable without replacing the whole battery. The point where the whole pack needs replacing depends on your threshold where the capacity no longer meets the needs, and how many miles you drive a year. 8 years seems rather short for the average miles/year.

Yes, tesla uses too many aluminum panels which are difficult to repair. I agree, tesla insurance is way more than that of ID4. Which is one of the biggest reason i was interested in the id4.
The actuarial data is based on more than just the cost, but the risks that the car might be in a crash (or even the risks the driver poses by age, sex, etc). I’m aware of the factors that can play with Teslas (the type of driver they attract, the potential for bad behavior things like Autopilot can foster, repair costs, etc), but I’m more musing out loud that it would be interesting to see how those factors combine to create the actuarial data used to set insurance prices.

If cost to repair was the only factor, I wouldn’t be getting quotes saying an ID.4 is as cheap to insure as my Outback which is 15k cheaper.
 

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What ever they are, the number keeps climbing every day. Buyers of ID4 are not like tesla fanboys and wont easily buy the cars without the tax rebate specially given that the rebate would like be back next year.
The number of available cars keeps climbing even though that number is currently zero? You are gonna have to explain your math to me here.
 

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What ever they are, the number keeps climbing every day. Buyers of ID4 are not like tesla fanboys and wont easily buy the cars without the tax rebate specially given that the rebate would like be back next year.
Help me out here, I'm thoroughly confused.

VW is increasing the number of ID.4s it is shipping to the US. ID.4s in transit is steadily increasing according to the inventory list.

Yet potential owners are still waiting for their cars to arrive, some being told they are months out?

Is your claim here that sales are flatlining because the number of vehicles being shipped has increased?

I'm not in the market so I haven't checked local availability, but you're telling me that available inventory on the lot has increased because of the loss of the tax credit? Anybody could walk in off the street and buy one at MSRP?
 

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Nothing is available yet, I check every other week including out of state. The numbers are increasing (thankfully), it simply means people will hopefully eventually wait 3-6 months instead of a year. Every single one of these are reserved. One or two thousand across the whole country is nothing. Half of those are in transit. Whatever cancelled is picked up immediately. Because of the 7500 being gone, my research says some dealers have reduced the markup. But that's pretty much it so far.
 

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What are you smoking? What part of "number of id4s appearing is increasing" do you not get? I had no idea that there was an id4 fanboy club.
You are making up stuff that buyers aren't 'fanboys' and that as a result of the IRA there are cars available for purchase and that the number increases every day and you use VW Pasadena as an example. But if you check their list of 'stock' here: New Vehicles | Volkswagen Pasadena | VW Dealership you can see that they actually do not have a single one sitting on the lot. So you keep saying that number is increasing when in fact it's zero. Go to their dealership and check it out for yourself. Ask for Jorge if you have questions, he's great. (It's my local dealership and where I got my ID4 from).

And don't worry about people being fanboys, it's their right to love the product they bought and if it bothers you, I suggest to change your attitude and life will be more fun.
 

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You are making up stuff that buyers aren't 'fanboys' and that as a result of the IRA there are cars available for purchase and that the number increases every day and you use VW Pasadena as an example. But if you check their list of 'stock' here: New Vehicles | Volkswagen Pasadena | VW Dealership you can see that they actually do not have a single one sitting on the lot. So you keep saying that number is increasing when in fact it's zero. Go to their dealership and check it out for yourself. Ask for Jorge if you have questions, he's great. (It's my local dealership and where I got my ID4 from).

And don't worry about people being fanboys, it's their right to love the product they bought and if it bothers you, I suggest to change your attitude and life will be more fun.
+1. I've found that pretty much anyone resorting to a "yeah, well you're just a fanboy" as a "counter-argument" in a discussion can pretty safely be ignored. It's just another type of fallacious ad hominem attack made by someone who doesn't have a reasoned position to begin with.
 

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22 ID4 inventory/inbound cars numbers are still rising.
on Aug 30th count was 1,627 and today it is @ 1,904....

View attachment 15201
Do you think Youtube videos like this one that posted yesterday and already has over 18k views could be the issue? I have reported the same exact problem to my dealer and they still have not come up with a solution or proposed a fix.

 

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Do you think Youtube videos like this one that posted yesterday and already has over 18k views could be the issue?
The "issue" is they are producing them faster than before for the US. More people getting their long awaited cars is an issue? They are not sitting on dealers lots anywhere I have heard of, the cancellations they are getting sold as soon as they hit the lots.
 

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The "issue" is they are producing them faster than before for the US. More people getting their long awaited cars is an issue? They are not sitting on dealers lots anywhere I have heard of, the cancellations they are getting sold as soon as they hit the lots.
Yes, I have followed the discussion in this thread, and the only way this discussion gets resolved is when VW of A (and the other EV vendors) publishes 3Q sales data. I personally us the Edmunds car inventory data but nobody has referenced that data in this discussion, so we wait for official sales data.
 

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The risk of it going kaput after 8 years is extremely high

If you're saying "The risk of the battery completely failing at some point between 8 years after being put into service, and the end of the human race is extremely high", sure.

If you're saying "the risk of the battery failing shortly after the warranty expires is extremely high", I'm calling bullshit unless you've got some data to back that claim.
 

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Yes, I have followed the discussion in this thread, and the only way this discussion gets resolved is when VW of A (and the other EV vendors) publishes 3Q sales data. I personally us the Edmunds car inventory data but nobody has referenced that data in this discussion, so we wait for official sales data.
What is there to resolve? Not a lot of of ID.4s have been produced (compared to say Tesla), and whatever is produced is sold immediately. Maybe middle of next year we will see data about increased production numbers. And then we can see if there is any running inventory/lack of demand etc.
 

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None of them are in stock, they are all pre-orders. They all say they have a sale pending or are 'in transit'. I got mine from VW Pasadena and one day while I was still waiting I went there to check the cars they supposedly had according to the website but there were none on the lot because if it's a preorder it gets picked up within a day or two. They only had one or two demo cars even when the website would show them as having 15.
Seeing that now. When I first saw it, those details weren't inputted. Thinking I saw it when they literally just got it in the system. Though, I think 1 or 2 are still not as pending, but as you said, those are probably the demo cars now.
 

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for sure there are few reserved cars cancellations and dealers are selling for little profit and not like crazy 10k markups.. Atleast in charlotte I know 2 cars were sold last week around 2500k markup even though dealer was asking 3k markup.. the same dealer was selling >5k few months ago for any cancellations
Interestingly another charlotte dealer put a video last friday about availability of PRO RWD version and highlighting in the video saying "it is available and who ever first come to the dealership". I saw video yesterday but the car is not in inventory and not sure if the car is sold on friday/saturday

We don't know why there are cancellations (even though very small number)... loss of EV credit ? or alternative cars (Tesla,Hyundai,kia) ?
 

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dealers are selling for little profit and not like crazy 10k markups
I don't know whether you intended this as you wrote it, but I just wanted to point out that VW dealers are making fair profit when selling at MSRP. I suppose "very little" is open to interpretation.

Consider that the ID.4 is a hot mover, the customer does the leg work with the ordering, and because the typical ID.4 sits for such a short amount of time, there is no floor plan cost associated with keeping the vehicle in inventory. And of course there are other profit sources tied in to these vehicles with meeting sales quotas, selling extended warranty and service plans, plus financing kickbacks.

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2022 ID.4 - Style: Dual-motor Pro - 4-Door SUV with AWD. Powered by by an Electric Engine w/ Automatic Transmission.
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2022 ID.4 - Style: Single-motor Pro S - 4-Door SUV with RWD. Powered by by an Electric Engine w/ Automatic Transmission.
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2022 ID.4 - Style: Dual-motor Pro S - 4-Door SUV with AWD. Powered by by an Electric Engine w/ Automatic Transmission.
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$48,940
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$47,199

 
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