[GriefHammer]

Incorrect claim. Ok. Moving on. Unfollowing thread and you. Have a great week.

 

[Major]

My dealer had a demo..which I test drove…it Was there only demo and had received it only the day befor… btw. I drove it home that day…lucky me. My reservation is still in process…
you’ll like the ID4.. and I think 99% of us would say move forward…
I had never drove an EV before that day…also. Don’t try to compare it to an ICE..I have found that it’s a change of Mindset driving an EV. I suggest watching the many YouTube vids about EVs. If you haven’t already. Rethinking range considerations was my first ( a hah) moment. Before you leave you need to consider where are u going…
I found two YouTube channels 1.

The 2023 I ordered is at my local dealer (despite the VW site shows Leaving the Factory), but I am not sure I want it.
I have not driven one and my local dealer said they do not offer test drives, so this is almost a non-starter. A few questions for those who have taken delivery and other wise folks:

• Thoughts on resale value. How many dealers or others are selling them for above MSRP?
• Overall satisfaction?
• Value compared to Vinfast and Fisker?
• Any insight with trade ins? I have a 2012 Impreza Limited.

Thanks in advance View attachment 17692
View attachment 17691

 

[Valvefloat]

We recently took delivery of a '23 AWD Pro S. The car drives decently and the electric powertrain, charging, etc. works fine.

The '23s however, have some decontenting. No floor mats, no charging cable, and no mirror memory to go with the seat memory, even with the Pro S trim--pitiful.

And the car's infotainment system and general software is very lame. It's the most irritating car I've driven in a long time with obscure menus, numerous security checks, and a borderline useless phone app. It shouldn't take an extensive learning process to make even the major things work to your satisfaction.

Last summer, the CEO fo the VW group was fired because his software group wasn't adapting to electric cars quickly enough. One can see why.

 

[Atlant]

The '23s however, have some decontenting. No floor mats, no charging cable, and no mirror memory to go with the seat memory, even with the Pro S trim--pitiful.

Careful: You'll develop the same reputation I have here for not inventorying everything in the car (like the number of driver's door electric window switches*) before I bought the car. I'm routinely accused of not having done the proper “due diligence” when I bought that car without having first checked that it had every feature that's become standard in every other car.

And the car's infotainment system and general software is very lame. It's the most irritating car I've driven in a long time with obscure menus, numerous security checks, and a borderline useless phone app. It shouldn't take an extensive learning process to make even the major things work to your satisfaction. Last summer, the CEO fo the VW group was fired because his software group wasn't adapting to electric cars quickly enough. One can see why.

And for my complaints that it's reasonable to expect a $50,000 car to come with software that isn't blatantly, obviously broken/deficient.

* Full disclosure: I haven't complained about that; others have. But I certainly agree with them that the ID.4 window switch arrangement is an example of Stupid Design.

 

[Huey52]

My VW Group VP asked me to provide a written review of my first-sold FE and I did so at my 60-day service call back. One item was "please return to discrete front/rear window switches." Although in truth at 18-months now it works well enough.

As an FE that I was only able to distant-view during a one short day look but don't touch/sit tour, in a heavy snowstorm, I too missed this item in my own pre-order "due diligence."

btw: That VW demo RWD A/S tire vehicle did just fine touring three dealerships that short day in the snow, but had to bail on its planned 4th as time ran out.

Careful: You'll develop the same reputation I have here for not inventorying everything in the car (like the number of driver's door electric window switches*) before I bought the car. I'm routinely accused of not having done the proper “due diligence” when I bought that car without having first checked that it had every feature that's become standard in every other car.

And for my complaints that it's reasonable to expect a $50,000 car to come with software that isn't blatantly, obviously broken/deficient.

* Full disclosure: I haven't complained about that; others have. But I certainly agree with them that the ID.4 window switch arrangement is an example of Stupid Design.

 

[Atlant]

My VW Group VP asked me to provide a written review of my first-sold FE and I did so at my 60-day service call back. One item was "please return to discrete front/rear window switches." Although in truth at 18-months now it works well enough.

I probably wouldn't ever complain about this because in all truth, the only times I ever operate the rear windows are 1) for state inspection and 2) when I want to open all four windows to quickly cool a blazing-hot car. Except for those two situations, they could be fixed glass for all I care and that would be two fewer window winders to eventually cost $500 each to replace.

I AM going to try to get in the habit of once a month or so, cycling the rear windows to help prevent the sort of nasty surprise my A8L gave me when I lowered all the windows to clear off some condensation and the hardly-ever-operated left rear window transmission picked that moment to shatter its plastic pulleys. Oh joy: I'm on the road and the window's stuck fully down!

 

[Nai3t]

I'm with you, the only time I need rear window switches is to roll up the windows the kids rolled down.

My i3 BTW has a very similar arrangement, except BMW deleted the rear switches, too. 😉 I'm perfectly fine with that design decision.

 

[Atlant]

I'm with you, the only time I need rear window switches is to roll up the windows the kids rolled down.

My i3 BTW has a very similar arrangement, except BMW deleted the rear switches, too. 😉 I'm perfectly fine with that design decision.

After the A8L played that trick, I took the door apart, temporarily removed the window winder motor, and through main force and some help from my wife, managed to shove the window back up. I then re-inserted the window winder motor to lock it in place, set the “child lock” switch so the rear window switches couldn't be used to wind it down again, and put a piece of blue masking tape over the driver's door rear window switches so I wouldn't try to lower that window by mistake. (I guess that was a foreshadowing of the ID.4! No rear window switches!)

Then I took the car to Audi who said they could fix it but then took a few days to decide that they couldn't source that window transmission any more, but they'd at least reassemble the door for free for all of the time they'd had the car.

After that, I had a frank discussion with the guy that does my state inspections and we decided that the regs didn't really insist that the rear windows be operable. He put that year's inspection sticker on the car but I decided that the Audi had pretty much had its day. I MIGHT be able to source a used window transmission but I no longer had it in me to do so. (Each new part needed for the nineteen-year-old girl had become a major league search effort.)

So as this year's state inspection started to loom on the horizon, that's when the ID.4 came into my life! ;-)

 

[Solejean]

So as this year's state inspection started to loom on the horizon, that's when the ID.4 came into my life! ;-)

You have to get the car inspected every year? In California they never look at the car. You should see some of the crazy things on the roads out here. Definitely not safe.

 

[Atlant]

You have to get the car inspected every year? In California they never look at the car. You should see some of the crazy things on the roads out here. Definitely not safe.

Yes. Cars are registered in the birth month of their owner so every year, the “Auto Town Tax” (property tax on vehicles) is paid, the state registration is renewed, and the car must be inspected by a licensed state inspector. It's a pretty thorough inspection as well and can be a source of anxiety if your car is, ahem, “older”.

And in my family, I somehow ended up owning all the cars so November is a stressful month. ;-)

 

[antonioM]

They don't have a state inspection in Minnesota either (at least not when I lived there), so yeah, some potentially dangerous cars on the road there.

There is an inspection in North Carolina (both safety and emissions*), but I believe it's waived for the first three years for new vehicles. Also, I'm not sure if the emissions test is necessary for battery electric vehicles, I'll have to look into that.




* possibly some of the more rural counties don't require the emissions portion of it, not entirely sure.

 

[nealgrover]

My dealer not selling above msrp and also would not close deal without test drive. formerly VW of Kingston, NY now Romeo VW of Kingston, NY. I ordered long ago and my ID.4 burned up in the famous trans-Atlantic ship fire with Audis and Porsches. Then they shipped another (2022). I love it, though there is an odd software glitch with the car-net/MyVW app not allowing me to log new primary user. I'm still a "guest." Tell Fairfax they are not doing things the VW way and walk. You can rent or lease, or keep driving what you have until they give you the service you deserve. I heard Volvo/Polestar has great deals on short rentals.. Give you a chance to find out if you are ready for a BEV while you wait for them to act right. It is a 100% refundable deposit. It is true VW allows them to set the price higher, but you can go out of town to get a better deal. East Va and southern MD all the way to Baltimore, I bet you can get some other dealers interested in your business. If not, more BEV's are arriving and promised... MachE, KIA, Hyundai, are comparable. Toyota bz in 2023... Make them sweat or walk away. You are the one with the money.

 

[nealgrover]

My dealer not selling above msrp ....ay. You are the one with the money.

The above post (#52) was in response to a guy who was told by Sales he could not test drive the car he ordered unless he bought it.. I see it popped up all alone, far from that thread.. apologies for non sequitur

 

[VoltswagenStan]

I'm citing roundish numbers but frankly, I haven't see anything approaching a 45% decrease in Winter range for my ID.4. But then again, most of my driving is in modes where wind resistance plays a much bigger role than heating losses. In my ID.4, I usually get 3.1 or so MPKWH and the other morning, in quite cold temperatures, got 2.1 MPKWH. This is roughly consistent with what my Volt gets at the same highway speeds.

Based on the EPA ratings, an ID.4 AWD Pro S should get about 3.3 mi/kWh under average conditions. I recently drove my new 2023 AWD Pro S 1400 miles from south of Denver to St. George, UT and back over some very high mountain passes. Temperatures ranged from 40 F to -5 F. Most of the driving was in the 20s F. Most of the time I was driving 75 or 80 mph on I-70 and I-15. I also had two bikes on the rear rack. Average mileage was 2.1 miles/kWh. That's about a 36% decrease from EPA estimate. I attribute a lot of that to the drag from the bikes and the high speed as well as the extremely cold temperatures.

A few years ago, the Norwegian government did a test on all EVs then available in Europe. First, the cold-soaked the cars at -10 F for 24 hours. Then they drove all of them in +10 F weather at about 100 km/hr until they completely stopped. The best cars lost about 25% range. The worst lost about 40%. Most lost about 33-35%. That's about the worst case for cold. I don't think the ID.4 was around then, so missed the test. The Opel Ampera-e (the Opel version of the Chevy Bolt EV) was one of the worst. I think the Nissan Leaf was the absolute worst. I believe that the Teslas did the best.

 

[Nai3t]

A few years ago, the Norwegian government did a test on all EVs then available in Europe. First, the cold-soaked the cars at -10 F for 24 hours. Then they drove all of them in +10 F weather at about 100 km/hr until they completely stopped. The best cars lost about 25% range. The worst lost about 40%. Most lost about 33-35%.

Interesting parameters, testing to the car's range, rather than a fixed distance. Case in point, a cold-soaked ID.4 in those conditions would maybe go only 150 miles on the initial charge, but I imagine could squeak out an additional 50 miles on each subsequent charge after the battery pack is warmed up. That would look even worse for a lower range EV like an i3.

 

[raadsel]

• Thoughts on resale value. How many dealers or others are selling them for above MSRP?
  • Resale value when? It will be fine for a year, but beyond that my guess it will start taking a hit as other options trickle in
• Overall satisfaction?
  • Not satisfied, but no other choice to get EV this year for reasonble price
• Value compared to Vinfast and Fisker?
  • Those are not proven new companies and these cars are not even out yet to consider their value but certainly look great
• Any insight with trade ins? I have a 2012 Impreza Limited.
  • Trade in values are dropping quickly, I am in the same boat with my trade in and monitoring it closely

I suppose I have a bit more faith in Vinfast, only because the parent company, Vingroup, is quite large and even produces EV batteries. My issue with Vinfast, at least as they will originally selling their cars, is that you'll have to "rent" the battery -- and I don't want to pay an extra $150+ per month to be able to drive a car I paid as much for as an ID4. It will be interesting to see how Vinfast does, particularly how long it takes for them to allow people to buy the battery with the car, and how much extra they'll add if you purchase the battery.

 

[VoltswagenStan]

The 2023 I ordered is at my local dealer (despite the VW site shows Leaving the Factory), but I am not sure I want it.
I have not driven one and my local dealer said they do not offer test drives, so this is almost a non-starter. A few questions for those who have taken delivery and other wise folks:

• Thoughts on resale value. How many dealers or others are selling them for above MSRP?
• Overall satisfaction?

I think there are plenty of other people who will take it if you don't want it. Also, resale is probably pretty good, from comments/videos I've seen.

I think the ID.4 is a good car but not a great EV. Software is still a bit buggy even for the 2023. The software designers made strange choices in what to include and what to exclude or hide deep in menus. I still haven't figured out what the data "since start" means. It sometimes means since you last started the car and sometimes it means since the start of the day. It's not the same as the trip odometer, which is buried very deep.

I have had a Chevy Bolt EV for 4.5 years and I love it. I like the ID.4, but I don't love it. Sure, the ID.4 has AWD, higher ground clearance, faster charging (and mostly free for 3 years), good adaptive cruise control with lane-keeping ("driver assist"), but the driver display is lame compared to the Bolt which shows not just speed, mi/kWh and guesstimated range, but also trip odometer, total odometer, instantaneous kW being used or regenerated, maximum range and minimum range with a trend line showing which way you are trending, tire pressure, avg speed, an indicator that you are driving efficiently or not, etc. The climate controls in the ID.4 are unnecessarily obscure, complex and confusing. Lots of things come on automatically, whether you want them or not and turning them off is not always easy and sometimes they keep coming on even if you have disabled them. This is true not just for climate but for things like maneuver braking.

The ID.4 is roomier, the seats are more comfortable, the ride is smoother and the driver assist autopilot is pretty good. (The Bolt doesn't have Adaptive Cruise Control and the lane-keeping is lame-keeping.) The Bolt is a lot more efficient (3.9 mi/kWh vice 3.3 mi/kWh) and has slightly more range (259 vs. 255 for the ID.4 AWD Pro S) despite having a smaller battery. The ID.4 does charge much faster at DC fast chargers (if they are at least 150 kW, which most are not) but it has a bigger battery to recharge. I've driven the Bolt against ID.4s and driven the ID.4 against the Bolt on cross-country trips and honestly, in both cases, the Bolt more or less kept up with the ID.4 over the course of many charging sessions.

The AWD is supposed to go from 0-60 mph in 5.5 seconds. The Bolt takes 6.5 seconds, but I can't really tell the difference. Compared to the 13 seconds my Pontiac Aztek took, the acceleration is blazing fast.

I would go ahead and get the ID.4 if that is the car that meets your needs. The drive is fine. It drives like an SUV, which it is, just a little peppier. The sooner you are in an EV, the better for your wallet and the environment. The scarcity of raw materials like lithium, cobalt and nickel in processed form is only going to get worse in the next 5 years, so the demand for EVs will soon exceed capacity - especially if trade relations with China go south. Better to have a good, solid EV in the ID.4 in the hand than to wait years for something that might or might not be better. Also, if you get a 2023 now, you'll be eligible for the full $7500 tax credit. After 1 January, all bets are off and it's possible/likely that almost no EVs will qualify for any part of that credit and many upper middle class people won't qualify.

 

[Huey52]

No annual inspection? I thought CA was all over the ICE vehicle air pollution thing and without inspection how do they assure compliance?

btw: MA follows the same air cleanliness standards as CA but we have an annual inspection (combined safety & pollution).

btw: A quick Google:

You have to get the car inspected every year? In California they never look at the car. You should see some of the crazy things on the roads out here. Definitely not safe.

btw: A related "way back machine" but when I traded my MA Pinto station wagon in CA circa 1977 I took a hit as CA required the installation of a "smogger" which was basically just a pump/fan adding outside air to the final-exhaust stream in the bizarre belief that somehow this diluted and thereby reduced pollution. 🤷‍♂️ [yes, it did reduce the parts per million instantaneous reading at the tailpipe, but obviously didn't reduce the actual volume of contaminants.]

 

[Nai3t]

Better check your sources @Huey52, Dave's Tire Emporium is presenting some false info.

The only time I had to have a DOT-type safety inspection was when I brought my rolled-over salvaged Ranger back to life. And the DMV inspects new and used out-of-state cars I've brought in to register, but it seems they're mainly looking for emissions compliance decals. (BTW my i3 BEV has an emissions decal on the tailgate! I need to look if the ID.4 has one, too.)

The California bi-annual smog test is just that -- emissions check only -- and they would issue the certificate even with a brake light dangling by wires and bald, mismatched tires.

 

[Huey52]

And this is the Mecca of 'merican automotives? Wow!!! Well, at least you still have a "smog test."

btw: again in my wayback machine I used to have to get an extensive annual vehicle safety test when I lived in SoCal, but that may have been just a military installation thing. It actually included a dyno type roller but to check wheel integrity under speed. It was done at the same base auto hobby shop where I did a lot of my own maintenance.

Better check your sources @Huey52, Dave's Tire Emporium is presenting some false info.

The only time I had to have a DOT-type safety inspection was when I brought my rolled-over salvaged Ranger back to life. And the DMV inspects new and used out-of-state cars I've brought in to register, but it seems they're mainly looking for emissions compliance decals. (BTW my i3 BEV has an emissions decal on the tailgate! I need to look if the ID.4 has one, too.)

The California bi-annual smog test is just that -- emissions check only -- and they would issue the certificate even with a brake light dangling by wires and bald, mismatched tires.