The Inside EV's piece on the ID.4 had almost a throwaway discussion among the Editors which I think we should all think very carefully about. It was that VW is not trying to make the ID.4 for all segments of customers. Their point was that the VW Corporation has a number of vehicle lines under it's umbrella. If you want a luxury car, you can buy an Audi. If you want a performance car, you can buy a Lamborghini or an S or RS Audi. For ultra-luxe, you can buy a Bentley. We are going to get an AWD ID.4. But, if you want 360 deg. vision or an HUD, perhaps VW would prefer that you go to Audi. Lots of talk that the ID.4 is the new Beetle--but the Beetle was basic transportation. I know that basic transportation today is a lot more that what was considered basic transportation way back when. I think that the spec of the ID.4 Pro fits perfectly for what VW is aiming for and for "only" $40K, before incentives. The FE at $44K or a fully optioned AWD Pro at close to $50K may turn out to be a bad bet, compared to the upcoming Audi Q4 E-Tron. The silver lining in the delay of the FE is that we will get a good look at the Audi before we have to make that purchase.
Don't make the ID.4 into something it isn't
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Very good point! I completely agree.
I also think the US price is spectacularly low. In the UK the FE costs about USD 55,000, in Germany and the Netherlands the FE costs around USD 56,500. Granted EU FE has HUD and heat pump, but that doesn't make up for $10,000 difference. At the US list price, the ID.4 can easily compete against it's targets, the Rav4 and CR-V ICEs. And it outshines the Kia Niro at the same price point where the Niro at one year old already looks dated and compromised in comparison.
I also think the US price is spectacularly low. In the UK the FE costs about USD 55,000, in Germany and the Netherlands the FE costs around USD 56,500. Granted EU FE has HUD and heat pump, but that doesn't make up for $10,000 difference. At the US list price, the ID.4 can easily compete against it's targets, the Rav4 and CR-V ICEs. And it outshines the Kia Niro at the same price point where the Niro at one year old already looks dated and compromised in comparison.
I, for one, am very happy with the pricing and equipment choices that VW of North America made for the ID.4.
I just want a spacious, solid long-range EV SUV with some VW design flair and ingenuity, and the ID.4 delivers that. I have 360-camera on a Mercedes E-Class (which the ID.4 will replace) and it's largely a gimmick.
I just want a spacious, solid long-range EV SUV with some VW design flair and ingenuity, and the ID.4 delivers that. I have 360-camera on a Mercedes E-Class (which the ID.4 will replace) and it's largely a gimmick.
Is there information to say when detail of the Q4 will forthcoming?
I agree with everything you said except for the 360 camera. I have one on my BMW X5 and I use it all the time. Makes parking that beast much easier. The ID.4 may replace the X5 if it is as comfortable as initial tests say it is.
Red means not out yet? I'm assuming. Certainly the +200 range and price is a sought after point. It was amongst my criteria for a BEV.
If the 250 mile range for ID.4 holds, it seems that absent the Kona (and maybe Niro), it takes spending an additional $12k+ to get a similar or better range for a similar type of vehicle. While the Mach E would probably be my backup choice, I see little that would convince me to spend that much more money. I'm still headed toward the VW unless I learn more that would make that significant price difference look more justifiable.
I very much agree ted99 and your thread title is particularly apropos.
I've had Audi's for over a decade now and I do appreciate them for what they are, even as I don't appreciate the price tag. Audi doesn't currently have a full electric in the smaller form factor that I want/need. I wish they had just taken the A3 Avant e-tron and migrated it from hybrid to pure electric. I really wish they had moved ahead with the TT Offroad concept.
When news of the ID.4 surfaced I realized it was just right for me. I don't expect Audi-level materials but in saying that I think VW has always done a very good job, and arguably superior to anyone at their price point. And quite frankly I'm looking forward to being less concerned when I park in a shopping center, much as my prior decade with Jeeps.
Perhaps I'll look at the Q4 if it is available in the same period but again I prefer the ID.4's more CUV form and stance over yet another top heavy Audi SUV. Having said that the Q4 unofficial renderings look very CUV like to me.
It's always good to have options so perhaps the delay is a blessing in disguise.
I've had Audi's for over a decade now and I do appreciate them for what they are, even as I don't appreciate the price tag. Audi doesn't currently have a full electric in the smaller form factor that I want/need. I wish they had just taken the A3 Avant e-tron and migrated it from hybrid to pure electric. I really wish they had moved ahead with the TT Offroad concept.
When news of the ID.4 surfaced I realized it was just right for me. I don't expect Audi-level materials but in saying that I think VW has always done a very good job, and arguably superior to anyone at their price point. And quite frankly I'm looking forward to being less concerned when I park in a shopping center, much as my prior decade with Jeeps.
Perhaps I'll look at the Q4 if it is available in the same period but again I prefer the ID.4's more CUV form and stance over yet another top heavy Audi SUV. Having said that the Q4 unofficial renderings look very CUV like to me.
It's always good to have options so perhaps the delay is a blessing in disguise.
I constantly struggle with reason over emotion when purchasing cars. I've owned 2 Ferrari's, a Nissan GT-R, Porsche 991.1 Carrera S, a Rolls Silver Shadow, Alfa Sprint Veloce, 1965 Shelby GT 350, 1932 MG F2 TC and TD, C4 Corvette, Daimler SP250, many BMW's including an i3, VW Jetta, various pedestrian American vehicles, and learned to drive in a 1949 VW Beetle in Germany. What I do now is try to make my cars fit their intended purpose and since I don't go to the track anymore (I was a pro motorcycle road racer), I "need" an around-town grocery-getter and a comfortable interstate cruiser. The rational me says the ID.4 Pro is the perfect grocery-getter. For that purpose, I want all the safety bells and whistles since most accidents happen close to home. I want a compliant suspension with no need for .8G cornering and no need to carry 500# loads with their stiff suspensions like the typical SUV's I have owned. I don't want to think about careful route planning for an interstate trip so a full EV is not in the cards for that. That will take a 400 mileEV range so that one only charges during a lunch break and a charging capability that isn't centered on Interstates. So, I'm going to trade one of my BMW 530e PHEV's for the ID.4 (unless the Q4 becomes a can't miss value proposition compared to the FE) and keep the loaded one for interstate travel.
To answer an earlier question, the commentariat thinks the Q4 will be unveiled shortly after the first of the year.
To answer an earlier question, the commentariat thinks the Q4 will be unveiled shortly after the first of the year.
I agree, now that I am retired, the ID.4 is going to be my around town grocery getting driver and seems perfect for the task and will handle 90+% of my driving. If I want to do a bit of canyon carving, I will get out my Z3 or the 550. Although the Z3 may get sold to make room in the garage for the ID.4.
Thanks!
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I would like to see the Niro and Kona offering AWD. That would provide some good alternatives to the ID.4. If this were done in the next few months, they would capitalize on the VW delay.
I just want an inexpensive AWD EV. The ID.4 looks great for that, but the delay is annoying.
I just want an inexpensive AWD EV. The ID.4 looks great for that, but the delay is annoying.
I will keep my AWD reservation for now, but wait and see what the Q4 features before making a final decision.
Mythos Black FE- Reservation January 13 (Previously Pro S), Jan 13, 9:45 AM PST
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Thank you all for the perspective. I think it is easy to get lost in the bells and whistles and lose track of purpose. The ID4 is at a great price point when you look at what you get. It will compete well with the RAV4 and CRV. I feel like the ID4 is an upgrade over those two cars. I am not sure how much I would use a 360 camera if I had one. I barely use my backup camera when I drive a newer car. I'm sure the Audi will be an option for some. I drove the Kona and the Niro. Neither car matches the finishes of the ID4. They felt cheap in comparison. The ID4 checks off enough boxes for me to purchase. I just wish they communicated better and were more transparent. Also, they could have given people the option for upgrades (I know, or they could get the Audi). We also need to keep in mind that this is a monumental launch during a pandemic.
Like others, I think as it stands now the ID.4 is at a good price point for what you get. Would I like a heatpump, 360 camera and matrix lights, yes. Do I want to pay what the europeans are paying to get them, no. You can buy a lot of electricity for cabin heating for the difference in price between the US ID and the European ID. Looking at the owners manual, to get the 360 camera to come up, it is a minimum of 2, up to 4, button pushes. If it is more than 1 button push, I know I am not going to use the 360 camera much on the ID, if at all. This makes the lack of a 360 camera less of an issue for me. The 360 camera on my X5 is a 1 button press system and I love it. I am hoping the screen resolution on the ID is closer to the HD screen on my X5 than it is to the SD screen on my JSW.
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