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A lot will depend on your driving style. I can get 250 mole range on eTron that's 204 mile EPA rated if I take care to drive efficiently. Im not surprised that ID.4 would do better in real world for careful drivers.

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A lot will depend on your driving style. I can get 250 mole range on eTron that's 204 mile EPA rated if I take care to drive efficiently. Im not surprised that ID.4 would do better in real world for careful drivers.

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Can you please explain how one should drive their EV efficiently that would help retain higher range ?
 

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A lot will depend on your driving style. I can get 250 mole range on eTron that's 204 mile EPA rated if I take care to drive efficiently. Im not surprised that ID.4 would do better in real world for careful drivers.

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I don't know how many moles I get :) but I do get better than my 310 mile range on my Model 3. I average 250 watts/mile in the summer and 230 watts/mile in the winter. (I do feel I would be able to better the ID.4 range by a significant amount)

Can you please explain how one should drive their EV efficiently that would help retain higher range ?
Efficient EV driving is similar to efficient ICE driving. Keeping constant speed is the best way to improve efficiency. Avoid fast acceleration (hard to do with EVs) and try to use as much regen as possible to slow down. Higher freeway speeds will kill range. Also, minimize A/C and especially heat. Avoid living in cold weather areas :p.
 
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I don't know how many moles I get :) but I do get better than my 310 mile range on my Model 3. I average 250 watts/mile in the summer and 230 watts/mile in the winter. (I do feel I would be able to better the ID.4 range by a significant amount)



Efficient EV driving is similar to efficient ICE driving. Keeping constant speed is the best way to improve efficiency. Avoid fast acceleration (hard to do with EVs) and try to use as much regen as possible to slow down. Higher freeway speeds will kill range. Also, minimize A/C and especially heat. Avoid living in cold weather areas :p.
I don't know how many moles I get :) but I do get better than my 310 mile range on my Model 3. I average 250 watts/mile in the summer and 230 watts/mile in the winter. (I do feel I would be able to better the ID.4 range by a significant amount)



Efficient EV driving is similar to efficient ICE driving. Keeping constant speed is the best way to improve efficiency. Avoid fast acceleration (hard to do with EVs) and try to use as much regen as possible to slow down. Higher freeway speeds will kill range. Also, minimize A/C and especially heat. Avoid living in cold weather areas :p.
Can you please explain how one should drive their EV efficiently that would help retain higher range ?
Coasting is more efficient and braking helps in the id4. The ID will regen when braking the Tesla will regen only when you remove the acceleration but it is much much stronger and adjustable when you do. The point of the article though is that the stated range is much more optimistic on Tesla’s while most others are conservative.
 

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EV range numbers are all but useless. Everyone's driving style will be different. Manufacturers will claim a range that's more conservative than EPA (and then claim less than the EPA rating).

It's really not much different than ICE gas mileage. Just maybe inverted between stop-and-go and highway.

They don't say YMMV for no reason.
 

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This is a great article on range tests that Edmonds did. There are reports that the ID 4 is getting better than EPA stated range as well as a known fact that Tesla overstates their range. This shows an independent study. No id4 tested. Edmunds Tested: Electric Car Range and Consumption | Edmunds
Thanks for sharing the Edmunds comparison. Part of what's driving the results is that Tesla has refined the art of optimizing their cars' performance on the EPA range tests. As explained in another thread on this fantastic forum, Tesla is one of the few manufacturers who opt out of the standard EPA testing procedure to obtain higher range numbers. How realistic those numbers are in real-world use is another question altogether. Another member offered the astute observation that the European WLTP standard may be a more reliable metric for comparing different vehicles, because all vehicles are subjected to the same testing procedures. This is not intended as a knock on Tesla which makes great EVs and deserves tons of credit for jumpstarting (no pun intended) the EV movement. But, on my third EV, I'd hate to see newbies be put off the idea of transport electrification because they placed too much faith in exaggerated EV range numbers by certain manufacturers.
 

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VW ID.4 1st (picked up 3/19/21).
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The beauty of smartphones and auto-correct :) At least I hope I made someone smile, so my day was already worth it ...
I initially thought it was some sort of subtle Chemistry-related joke that I hadn't gotten yet.
 

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The EPA range estimates (and WLTP) are useful for comparison shopping between vehicles (except for Tesla) for both ICE vehicles and EV's. They are not useful for judging what YOUR range or gas mileage will be. Since Tesla uses a different EPA test regime than other manufacturers, it's not an apples to apples comparison.
 

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There are various youtubers that do range tests - I expect their results to be more representative of real life.
 

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The EPA range estimates (and WLTP) are useful for comparison shopping between vehicles (except for Tesla) for both ICE vehicles and EV's. They are not useful for judging what YOUR range or gas mileage will be. Since Tesla uses a different EPA test regime than other manufacturers, it's not an apples to apples comparison.
I still don't understand why all manufactures don't use the same 5-cycle testing Tesla uses. EPA allows the 2-cycle testing to not "burden" manufacturers but the adjustment they use for the 2-cycle test is overstated. There is nothing keeping other manufacturers from using the 5-cycle testing. WLTP range works well for Los Angeles where it is hard to hit 60 mph in freeways but not great for sparsely populated areas where 80 mph is common and the majority of travel.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I still don't understand why all manufactures don't use the same 5-cycle testing Tesla uses. EPA allows the 2-cycle testing to not "burden" manufacturers but the adjustment they use for the 2-cycle test is overstated. There is nothing keeping other manufacturers from using the 5-cycle testing. WLTP range works well for Los Angeles where it is hard to hit 60 mph in freeways but not great for sparsely populated areas where 80 mph is common and the majority of travel.
It is clear Tesla’s method of testing is unrealistic and shows better performance than what is actual. The better question is why isn’t Tesla doing the same as the rest or we come up with a standard that is fact and teal world expert based.
 

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It is clear Tesla’s method of testing is unrealistic and shows better performance than what is actual. The better question is why isn’t Tesla doing the same as the rest or we come up with a standard that is fact and teal world expert based.
So, Tesla needs to stop using the full test method and use the shortcut the other manufacturers use? I agree the EPA needs to stop letting manufacturers have a choice.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
So, Tesla needs to stop using the full test method and use the shortcut the other manufacturers use? I agree the EPA needs to stop letting manufacturers have a choice.
so simply put and on topic from the Edmonds test, if Tesla publishes a range, I should expect then to achieve it. it is not true and we can expect a lower range then it is misleading. As for getting better range then published another manufacturer publishes then it is simply a benefit for more economical driving. This article and others I have seen show that the numbers Tesla publishes are bogus no matter what method used to get them. I know there is a cult like following of Tesla and we all certainly have Tesla to thank for quite a bit. But honesty is not one of them
 

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My takeaway from the Edmunds article is that the EPA numbers are just a starting point when shopping. I’m looking forward to seeing more range tests for the ID.4 and other EVs by YouTubers and other publishers, preferably in mild weather.
 

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I watched several of them for eTron, especially ones where they do climb up steep hills and it was pretty good, unless they were doing stupid road racing up the hill. The car will do it obviously, but the weight and stupid acceleration will drain battery faster than EPA estimated. The same will happen in any gas car. Drive it hard, it will go through the tank in a hurry
 

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Why does Tesla use the 5-cycle test? Obvious, it lets them use a higher EPA range.

Why don't other manufacturers use the five cycle test? I don't know, but maybe it's more expensive or too involved to be worth the effort. The trend seems to be to actually use lower estimates than could be used. It seems obvious that Ford did that with the Mach-e, where EPA range exactly hit the estimates that they had been using for a year. I think VW did it with ID.4 as well. Probably Porsche with Taycan. Why do they do that? I don't know, but maybe they figure they get better press when they actually beat EPA estimates.

Why does EPA have such a complicated system that also so much ambiguity? :rolleyes:
 

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so simply put and on topic from the Edmonds test, if Tesla publishes a range, I should expect then to achieve it. it is not true and we can expect a lower range then it is misleading. As for getting better range then published another manufacturer publishes then it is simply a benefit for more economical driving. This article and others I have seen show that the numbers Tesla publishes are bogus no matter what method used to get them. I know there is a cult like following of Tesla and we all certainly have Tesla to thank for quite a bit. But honesty is not one of them
I have the 2018 Model 3 LR RWD. Unless the temperature is above 100° (which is happening more and more), I consistently beat the published range so for my case its hard to state the numbers are not true, misleading or bogus. I have not driven the other cars to an extent long enough to compare so can't tell you what I would achieve with the other cars. Living in L.A., my normal driving is much closer to the EPA test cycles than if I had open roads. Again, they use the preferred method dictated by the EPA, if you have issue, it should be with the EPA.

I did notice the Edmunds article inadvertently left off the LR RWD model but used the 2018 Performance version (and also accidently left off the 2020 Performance version). The 2018 Performance non-optioned model came with 18" wheels and was rated with the 18" wheels, however, almost all of them came with the 20" wheels so curious if the test was done with the base wheels or the upgraded 20" wheels.
 
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