I would call Customer Care, to start. I would not return the loaner. Whether to call an attorney gets into a gray area. Maybe the dealer will trade you for a new car?

 

I agree with this. Are you able to submit the rental agreement as a document supporting when the vehicle was dropped off?

 

Looking for some advice. Our 2021 ID.4 had the dreaded "electrical system failure" on September 18th. It had to be towed to the dealership for service. They have been unable to resolve the issue - it's still totally inoperable. They did give us a loaner, which we still have, and they provided polite updates every week and a half or so. We were very polite and patient in return. We have all of what they said at each update in a Google doc (where everything we wrote is time-stamped in the version history). They replaced one part, it didn't work, ordered another, apparently didn't work, and within a few weeks had VW engineers involved. This morning they said they had a tech who had been training and was about to try to trace out the issue. We decided it's time to move forward with asking for a buy back, in accordance with our state's lemon law. It's taken too long and we think it likely this could drag on much much longer. They said they can't close out the ticket because they "haven't run diagnostics" and if they closed it it would have to say something like "customer refused diagnostics." Service manager also let slip that he was worried that VW wasn't going to pay them for a month's worth of work. Interesting contradiction there. They said call VW customer care. I have already contacted an attorney who seems pretty good - but the first step is uploading the service record and purchase contract to his firm. Advice on what to do? I assume talk to the attorney but has anyone had this issue with the dealership being difficult with providing a service record? One thought I'm having is that at least we still have their loaner, and we wouldn't be inclined to return it until we have a closed service record that is accurate and consistent with the information they gave us in each phone call. Another thought I have is to ask the service manager to explain in an email why they can't close the service ticket, so that we have this in writing, before doing anything else. Thanks for any help you can provide.

Edited to add: I did ask if they could provide a record without closing the ticket, so they could continue the work. Service rep said he had no way to do that. I expect he's right about that. It's not that we don't want them to continue the work, because it would be best if they did. What if VW refuses the buy back?

Update (same day): We did call VW Customer Care. The rep took down the history and said if we request buyback review directly through them, there will be several documents they need, and of course one of them is the repair order. I explained that they hadn't closed it and didn't think they could provide that. She asked a supervisor, and confirmed that they should be able to provide an "Open repair order" that documents what has been done. If they refuse, we can file a complaint regarding obtaining service records and this would go to the dealer field management team. This process usually takes 2 business days. I told her we didn't want to do that yet, because the dealership may just need more help understanding what they are supposed to do. So I called and talked to our direct service rep to explain what customer care had told us. He said the manager said usually they contact him directly to get that info and he generates a description in an email to them. He gave us a service ticket # that VW can reference. I explained to him politely that is definitely helpful, but we need an actual open repair order document in our hands. So whatever the service manager generates, we need a copy of that as well. Explained that if we go through BBB auto line, that's one of the first things they need - they can't just use a ticket # (This is true and we're considering that, but as mentioned we are also considering using an attorney. Probably if all else fails. Attorney would need the open repair order). Also explained that VW Customer Care told us to use the complaint process if needed, but we'd rather not do that because we'd rather give the dealership another chance to generate the record for us. The rep said OK, he would talk to his manager and let us know. They haven't been that bad, I expect they'll just give it to us.

I have so many other things on my plate that I need to be doing instead of this. But we know that this can happen with any car, so I wouldn't say I'm angry at VW or the dealership at this point. Right now it just feels like rotten luck.

Wow! Impressive patience, documentation (as possible so far), and communication skills!

Since you have contacted an attorney, I'd provide the steps you have taken and ask him/her to write a low-key letter to VW-legal explaining the impossibility of getting necessary repair documentation and requesting those prior to, and in place of, litigation. That should not cost you too much and may get some action.

Thanks for your assistance to all of us.

 

Yeah I think one takeaway that people should have here is that you don't need a closed repair ticket if it's not repaired, what you need is an "open repair order" to proceed with buyback review. I'm definitely glad we didn't press them to close the ticket!

 

Looking for some advice. Our 2021 ID.4 had the dreaded "electrical system failure" on September 18th.

Sorry to hear of your situation. Did you buy this car new, and if not how long have you owned it? Also, how many miles on it?

 

@evgurl maybe you didn't see these questions?

 

Sounds like a bummer of a situation that nobody wants to be in. Sounds like you're keeping on top of it. There are many threads on the forum about Lemon Law or buyback actions. The key thing is that you comply explicitly with the Lemon Law terms and document those in a legal way. Stick to the law's terms (ex. if it says "written" you can't phone it in...), be your own best advocate (nobody will be going out of their way to assist you), and once you commit to that buyback process remember that it is all just a money game in the end.

The good news? Used ID4s are plentiful and affordable!

 

In most states, the Lemon Law is only applicable for the first year of new vehicle ownership. Since this is a '21, and was probably purchased more than a year before it bricked itself, the Lemon Law will probably not apply.

On the other hand, a buy-back request for a vehicle that's in warranty, and the manufacturer is unable to repair for an extended time is something the manufacturer will not want exposed on social media, in a lawsuit, or when sitting legally towed and parked in front of VW dealerships.

evgurl is being nice, prudent, and flexible. If that does not work out, alternate action may produce results.

 

@SparkGal: While your statements might be accurate, the exact state of jurisdiction is going to be important (and it might be nice to know, here in this thread: hint, hint). I note that @evgurl wrote in the initial post "We decided it's time to move forward with asking for a buy back, in accordance with our state's lemon law."

 

@Einar98281,

I agree with you.

Previous to my Te$la Model-S buy back, I was unaware that the term Lemon Law is strongly resisted by manufacturers. Lemon Law assigns an official status to the vehicle, at least in California. That causes the Lemon vehicle to have a much lower resale value. As I understand it, a vehicle bought-back by the manufacturer without the Lemon label attached can be resold like any vehicle without disclosure of the problem(s). My attorney explained the difference to me. When he sent a buy-back proposal to Te$la, they sent me a check for the Model-S, the taxes, and every cost associated with purchasing the vehicle and picked it up with a flatbed, an approximately 600-mile round trip that I did not have to make or fund.

My post's intent was to let @evgurl know that using the term "buy back," rather than "Lemon Law" in communication with VW might be helpful. @evgurl may already know that, but I did not think it would hurt to mention it.

 

I think it’s very presumptuous for you to assume that a poster was not likely to consider all their options

Keep in mind that some people on this board actually like the car.

 

I am curious about what makes the ID4 such a standout amongst the other EVs available. I don't think it should be in this thread because it's taking away from the original topic.

 

Looking for some advice. Our 2021 ID.4 had the dreaded "electrical system failure" on September 18th. It had to be towed to the dealership for service. They have been unable to resolve the issue - it's still totally inoperable. They did give us a loaner, which we still have, and they provided polite updates every week and a half or so. We were very polite and patient in return. We have all of what they said at each update in a Google doc (where everything we wrote is time-stamped in the version history). They replaced one part, it didn't work, ordered another, apparently didn't work, and within a few weeks had VW engineers involved. This morning they said they had a tech who had been training and was about to try to trace out the issue. We decided it's time to move forward with asking for a buy back, in accordance with our state's lemon law. It's taken too long and we think it likely this could drag on much much longer. They said they can't close out the ticket because they "haven't run diagnostics" and if they closed it it would have to say something like "customer refused diagnostics." Service manager also let slip that he was worried that VW wasn't going to pay them for a month's worth of work. Interesting contradiction there. They said call VW customer care. I have already contacted an attorney who seems pretty good - but the first step is uploading the service record and purchase contract to his firm. Advice on what to do? I assume talk to the attorney but has anyone had this issue with the dealership being difficult with providing a service record? One thought I'm having is that at least we still have their loaner, and we wouldn't be inclined to return it until we have a closed service record that is accurate and consistent with the information they gave us in each phone call. Another thought I have is to ask the service manager to explain in an email why they can't close the service ticket, so that we have this in writing, before doing anything else. Thanks for any help you can provide.

Edited to add: I did ask if they could provide a record without closing the ticket, so they could continue the work. Service rep said he had no way to do that. I expect he's right about that. It's not that we don't want them to continue the work, because it would be best if they did. What if VW refuses the buy back?

Update (same day): We did call VW Customer Care. The rep took down the history and said if we request buyback review directly through them, there will be several documents they need, and of course one of them is the repair order. I explained that they hadn't closed it and didn't think they could provide that. She asked a supervisor, and confirmed that they should be able to provide an "Open repair order" that documents what has been done. If they refuse, we can file a complaint regarding obtaining service records and this would go to the dealer field management team. This process usually takes 2 business days. I told her we didn't want to do that yet, because the dealership may just need more help understanding what they are supposed to do. So I called and talked to our direct service rep to explain what customer care had told us. He said the manager said usually they contact him directly to get that info and he generates a description in an email to them. He gave us a service ticket # that VW can reference. I explained to him politely that is definitely helpful, but we need an actual open repair order document in our hands. So whatever the service manager generates, we need a copy of that as well. Explained that if we go through BBB auto line, that's one of the first things they need - they can't just use a ticket # (This is true and we're considering that, but as mentioned we are also considering using an attorney. Probably if all else fails. Attorney would need the open repair order). Also explained that VW Customer Care told us to use the complaint process if needed, but we'd rather not do that because we'd rather give the dealership another chance to generate the record for us. The rep said OK, he would talk to his manager and let us know. They haven't been that bad, I expect they'll just give it to us.

I have so many other things on my plate that I need to be doing instead of this. But we know that this can happen with any car, so I wouldn't say I'm angry at VW or the dealership at this point. Right now it just feels like rotten luck.

Update (same day): They sent the open repair order. The only detail on it is a note on the error code that we described and the date (accurate) that it was towed in. I guess we'll work from that.

 

Had very much same issue w 2021 Id4. We contacted a lemon law attorney and it was easy to get them involved at no cost to us. I wonder if their pursuit of the breech of warranty/lemon law hurried things along. Eventually customer care offered to buy us out, paying us back for all lease payments less wear and tear. We leased a new 2023 id4 and had a brief electrical system dysfunction but now are happy.

 

Much the same problem with our ID.4. Forget customer care and the dealer. They can’t help you. Hire a good lawyer to request a buyback and forget about the car while they are working out the buyback. Do not return the loaner vehicle until they answer your buyback request. reclaim your life by letting your lawyer deal with it. They hope to break you by not answering you and asking you to produce paperwork from their own dealship service department. They did the same to us. Again do not return loaner until they give you the buyback decision to your lawyer. You have a life to live outside the vw world of incompetence and bureaucracy.

 

To be clear they don’t know how to fix the car. Everyone in the company probably knows this. We got same run around. Just move on from the mistake and learn from it.

 

Where are you located? I also have a 2021 ID.4... I'm curious if you the huge software update prior to this failure?

 

I also have a 2021 ID.4 (First Edition) my first question, did you have the HUGE software update performed prior to September? Not the over air update, the update where they kept your car for a few days plugged up to a computer update.

 

We didn't. At this point, I don't know if it matters or not. Service rep didn't mention anything about this in any of the phone call updates.

 

What state are you in? I easily forced buyback of my 2017 Forester in California after the third visit for an airbag issue had it in the shop for 6 weeks. I just went through Subaru, no BBB or attorney. Strangely, it was ready for pickup the day I accepted the buyback offer. And we’d bought it to replace our Jetta TDi that was bought back a year earlier…

 

Looking for some advice. Our 2021 ID.4 had the dreaded "electrical system failure" on September 18th. It had to be towed to the dealership for service. They have been unable to resolve the issue - it's still totally inoperable. They did give us a loaner, which we still have, and they provided polite updates every week and a half or so. We were very polite and patient in return. We have all of what they said at each update in a Google doc (where everything we wrote is time-stamped in the version history). They replaced one part, it didn't work, ordered another, apparently didn't work, and within a few weeks had VW engineers involved. This morning they said they had a tech who had been training and was about to try to trace out the issue. We decided it's time to move forward with asking for a buy back, in accordance with our state's lemon law. It's taken too long and we think it likely this could drag on much much longer. They said they can't close out the ticket because they "haven't run diagnostics" and if they closed it it would have to say something like "customer refused diagnostics." Service manager also let slip that he was worried that VW wasn't going to pay them for a month's worth of work. Interesting contradiction there. They said call VW customer care. I have already contacted an attorney who seems pretty good - but the first step is uploading the service record and purchase contract to his firm. Advice on what to do? I assume talk to the attorney but has anyone had this issue with the dealership being difficult with providing a service record? One thought I'm having is that at least we still have their loaner, and we wouldn't be inclined to return it until we have a closed service record that is accurate and consistent with the information they gave us in each phone call. Another thought I have is to ask the service manager to explain in an email why they can't close the service ticket, so that we have this in writing, before doing anything else. Thanks for any help you can provide.

Edited to add: I did ask if they could provide a record without closing the ticket, so they could continue the work. Service rep said he had no way to do that. I expect he's right about that. It's not that we don't want them to continue the work, because it would be best if they did. What if VW refuses the buy back?

Update (same day): We did call VW Customer Care. The rep took down the history and said if we request buyback review directly through them, there will be several documents they need, and of course one of them is the repair order. I explained that they hadn't closed it and didn't think they could provide that. She asked a supervisor, and confirmed that they should be able to provide an "Open repair order" that documents what has been done. If they refuse, we can file a complaint regarding obtaining service records and this would go to the dealer field management team. This process usually takes 2 business days. I told her we didn't want to do that yet, because the dealership may just need more help understanding what they are supposed to do. So I called and talked to our direct service rep to explain what customer care had told us. He said the manager said usually they contact him directly to get that info and he generates a description in an email to them. He gave us a service ticket # that VW can reference. I explained to him politely that is definitely helpful, but we need an actual open repair order document in our hands. So whatever the service manager generates, we need a copy of that as well. Explained that if we go through BBB auto line, that's one of the first things they need - they can't just use a ticket # (This is true and we're considering that, but as mentioned we are also considering using an attorney. Probably if all else fails. Attorney would need the open repair order). Also explained that VW Customer Care told us to use the complaint process if needed, but we'd rather not do that because we'd rather give the dealership another chance to generate the record for us. The rep said OK, he would talk to his manager and let us know. They haven't been that bad, I expect they'll just give it to us.

I have so many other things on my plate that I need to be doing instead of this. But we know that this can happen with any car, so I wouldn't say I'm angry at VW or the dealership at this point. Right now it just feels like rotten luck.

Update (same day): They sent the open repair order. The only detail on it is a note on the error code that we described and the date (accurate) that it was towed in. I guess we'll work from that.

This sounds like a nightmare. I had that same electric code for about a month or 2.. it drove just fine. I finally took it in. Thinking it was no big deal and that I would get my car back my car same day. They messaged me saying 4 modules were bad and needed replacement under warranty. They gave me a loaner and it’s been about 1-2 weeks so far today. Now thinking about it. That is maybe why I lost 50 miles of range. Hope I have better luck. FYI I am at 92k miles and only charge at electrify America. I have a 2021 model rwd

 

It's a massive operation to replace battery modules and I've heard (maybe on this forum?) that not every dealership can even do it.

 

2022 ID.4 purchased mid 2022, 4 x in 84 days total with various electrical system failures in oklahoma city vw shop while i had loaner, requested buyback from VW, that process took 60 days. What a nightmare. Wished I was in the 98% that never has any problems instead of 2% that did. Loved ID.4 when it was running.

 

My mechanical/electrical failure occurred on the day before I was to go in for an update.

 

Looking for some advice. Our 2021 ID.4 had the dreaded "electrical system failure" on September 18th. It had to be towed to the dealership for service. They have been unable to resolve the issue - it's still totally inoperable. They did give us a loaner, which we still have, and they provided polite updates every week and a half or so. We were very polite and patient in return. We have all of what they said at each update in a Google doc (where everything we wrote is time-stamped in the version history). They replaced one part, it didn't work, ordered another, apparently didn't work, and within a few weeks had VW engineers involved. This morning they said they had a tech who had been training and was about to try to trace out the issue. We decided it's time to move forward with asking for a buy back, in accordance with our state's lemon law. It's taken too long and we think it likely this could drag on much much longer. They said they can't close out the ticket because they "haven't run diagnostics" and if they closed it it would have to say something like "customer refused diagnostics." Service manager also let slip that he was worried that VW wasn't going to pay them for a month's worth of work. Interesting contradiction there. They said call VW customer care. I have already contacted an attorney who seems pretty good - but the first step is uploading the service record and purchase contract to his firm. Advice on what to do? I assume talk to the attorney but has anyone had this issue with the dealership being difficult with providing a service record? One thought I'm having is that at least we still have their loaner, and we wouldn't be inclined to return it until we have a closed service record that is accurate and consistent with the information they gave us in each phone call. Another thought I have is to ask the service manager to explain in an email why they can't close the service ticket, so that we have this in writing, before doing anything else. Thanks for any help you can provide.

Edited to add: I did ask if they could provide a record without closing the ticket, so they could continue the work. Service rep said he had no way to do that. I expect he's right about that. It's not that we don't want them to continue the work, because it would be best if they did. What if VW refuses the buy back?

Update (same day): We did call VW Customer Care. The rep took down the history and said if we request buyback review directly through them, there will be several documents they need, and of course one of them is the repair order. I explained that they hadn't closed it and didn't think they could provide that. She asked a supervisor, and confirmed that they should be able to provide an "Open repair order" that documents what has been done. If they refuse, we can file a complaint regarding obtaining service records and this would go to the dealer field management team. This process usually takes 2 business days. I told her we didn't want to do that yet, because the dealership may just need more help understanding what they are supposed to do. So I called and talked to our direct service rep to explain what customer care had told us. He said the manager said usually they contact him directly to get that info and he generates a description in an email to them. He gave us a service ticket # that VW can reference. I explained to him politely that is definitely helpful, but we need an actual open repair order document in our hands. So whatever the service manager generates, we need a copy of that as well. Explained that if we go through BBB auto line, that's one of the first things they need - they can't just use a ticket # (This is true and we're considering that, but as mentioned we are also considering using an attorney. Probably if all else fails. Attorney would need the open repair order). Also explained that VW Customer Care told us to use the complaint process if needed, but we'd rather not do that because we'd rather give the dealership another chance to generate the record for us. The rep said OK, he would talk to his manager and let us know. They haven't been that bad, I expect they'll just give it to us.

I have so many other things on my plate that I need to be doing instead of this. But we know that this can happen with any car, so I wouldn't say I'm angry at VW or the dealership at this point. Right now it just feels like rotten luck.

Update (same day): They sent the open repair order. The only detail on it is a note on the error code that we described and the date (accurate) that it was towed in. I guess we'll work from that.

Update 10/25: We're initiating consults with attorneys in order to choose one. BBB auto line wouldn't handle it because at 37K miles we're just over the limit for cases they will handle. I'm inclined to ask attorneys what they think about beginning with a buyback demand letter, instead of a lemon law case, and then ask for attorney fees when we are working on a settlement number. This is based on some advice I've been seeing on similar threads.

I am very sorry to hear of the issues you are experiencing! Perhaps these forums are the best ways to find solutions to our vehicle issues that dealerships have yet to discover. While I am writing this now, I dont actually have a solution CONFIRMED but I do remain hopeful, as I too have been in this state of limbo while my new 2024 id4 Pro S AWD with 1,700 miles has been at the dealership for 127 days with maybe the same issue. My last visit to the dealership revealed that the car is fixed and now they are holding onto it to confirm it remains that way for a few days. If this is true, I will share my outcome with you and you can pass it along to your service department.
If you have read in my post...
I flew home from a trip after 4 days to find the car in my driveway where we left it. When attempting to start it, there was no power to start the car but enough electric to display the error message that the "12volt battery was low" and this renders the car inoperable. The main drive battery under the car was at 65%. Attempts were made to jump start the car and no luck. VW towed the car to the dealership where it became a head scratcher to all involved. Available parts were interchanged with no luck. Finally there was hope after a module was changed and the car came back to life. Yeahh!!!!! BUT..... the odometer now read "0" miles. Many attempts to reprogram the module failed. VW could not legally give me back the car with a "tampered" odometer. Sooooo, now we are back to swapping out more computer modules. No luck. Parts suggested by vw engineers appear to be not widely available so time is added to the process. The race is on. I too had started the "buy back" program process (which was surprisingly straight forward), and can take up to 60 days to get back an offer from them. ???? an Offer i thought.... that sounds miserable!!! is there any way to quantify this ordeal into a dollar amount? I doubt it!! I would really just rather have the car back and repaired. ("buy back" process started 34 days ago and counting with no updates)
A glimmer of hope.... I stopped by the dealership to speak with the service department about possible progress. While I waited with low expectations, the service manager (who has been awesome by the way) came out from the garage area and said the last module that we were waiting for has arrived, just installed and is showing the correct mileage on the odometer. After a couple of days of updating software and running more diagnostics, the car should be returning home.
While I know my situation might not be exactly like yours, perhaps there is enough similarities that when I get the specific modules that were replaced that solved the problem, i could pass it on and it will help you and possibly others.
on a side note: the service department at my dealership has been top notch, stellar, unbelievable!!!! People should understand that they are just messengers, facilitators and are only human. They cannot perform magic. Every once in a while s**t happens and it is unfortunate. I really felt as if this service department recognized my frustration and wanted to do the best they could for me.

 

I had the same issue as you as posted in this thread: https://www.vwidtalk.com/threads/20...lectrical-failure-recommendations-on-recourse.17181/?post_id=298802#post-298802

I got my car back today after 33 days. It took 2 weeks of diagnostic work with VW engineering and 2 more weeks waiting for VW engineering to approve a fix and 1 week to fix (replaced the battery pack and battery heater that was identified as causing the fuse to blow - only time will tell if they did diagnose the real problem). Yes very frustrating. I did submit a buy back request 3 weeks into the process through VW Customer Care process because they said it takes 60 days to process. I doubt it will get honored because I did finally get my car back, it is past my states 12 month lemon law limit, and I did have a loaner the entire period.

Do not give back your loaner - it is the only leverage you have with the dealer. This is mostly out of their hands except to push them to be persistant with VW engineering to get approval on how to fix. Hopefully you can have good luck with the buy back and get a new car for a better deal.

 

Just to so another option of someone where their local dealer can't do HV work, see this thread: (31) Going Under for the Third Time | Page 3 | Volkswagen ID Forum

 

We had a similar experience with our Tiguan. We live in CA. VW was very good with our Lemon Law claim. It took about two months from start to finish. We had an electrical problem, that they could not figure out. As a last resort they were going to replace the alternator of which there were none available in the US. our car just sat there in the lot waiting for the part. The car was two years old; we had a lawyer and he supplied VW with all the documentation. VW credited us the full purchase price of the car, including insurance for the entire two years. We bought a VW iD4 that was on the lot with the refund and got it for practically nothing. Good luck...

 

I assume you got such a good settlement because of CA law? I'm wondering if we should ask for insurance costs in settlement. I'm in the Midwest.

 

@evgurl, what state are you doing this in?

 

Cat was purchased in Maine. Failure occurred in New York.

 

Our 2022 ProS AWD also had several battery modules replaced on separate occasions due to either them failing the test after installing 3.2 at the dealership or from the dreaded electrical system fault error. One of those replacements took a month. Added to that, we had a heck of a time getting our first dealership to believe us about a charge port failure (we ended up at a different dealership). Rattles in the sunroof, leaks in the trunk, failure to shift into D, doors that don't open correctly, rear hatch that won't open, the list goes on. My worst new car experience by far.

 

was your


Was your car perhaps built on a Monday? If so that could explain everything. Hangovers are a bitch when it comes to quality control.

 

I do wonder what happened here. @evgurl can you give an update?

 

VW offered to buy us out of our lease and we took the offer. We purchased a 2023 id4 after that.

 

I have been using a loaner for 6 weeks now as my car awaits a backordered battery module. The restriction they gave me was that it could not travel out of state. I have been out of town with it a few times but have remained within the state.

 

Hello evgurl,

We are in the same boat as you now for 5 weeks. Can you please share the repair order on how your car was fixed. I want to share with our dealership.

My car is a 2021 model tool. The electrical problem happen on Dec. 30, 2024 right before I was going to take it in for recall work.

Thanks for your help.