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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Hi folks,

I run a community called Leasehackr where people come to discuss car deals, learn tips and tricks on negotiating, and browse deals on our Marketplace.

My VW dealer source shared these lease numbers for 2021 ID.4 First Edition this month:

36/15K
RV: 46%
MF: .00143
$7,500 lease credit

Here's what the lease looks like in Southern California with $0 cap cost reduction aside from the lease credit:


Not a cheap lease by any means. We have an ID.4 scheduled to arrive in 2-3 weeks, but also considering a Mach-E at those rates. The other alternative is to finance conventionally through a credit union, but I'd rather have someone else take on the risk of depreciation.

Michael
 

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ID.4 1st Edition
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In your experience, how does adding 2,500 or 5,000 miles to the lease change the numbers?
 

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Hi folks,

I run a community called Leasehackr where people come to discuss car deals, learn tips and tricks on negotiating, and browse deals on our Marketplace.

My VW dealer source shared these lease numbers for 2021 ID.4 First Edition this month:

36/10K
RV: 46%
MF: .00143
$7,500 lease credit

Michael
Are they actually folding the full $7,500 tax credit into the lease? Which other car companies are doing that

The Mustang Mach-E appears to provide two lease options:
  • a standard lease, customers do not appear to benefit from the $7,500 tax credit
  • a "Ford Options" lease where you actually get the vehicle title in your name. If at the end of the lease you choose to purchase with the balloon payment then (and only then meaning the next year) do you get the $7,500 tax credit

So my question is - is VW the only manufacturer building the $7,500 into a greatly discounted lease? Will they cause other manufacturers to do the same - because then leasing an EV looks a lot more like the lease cost of a gasoline car.
 

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Dusk Blue ID.4 FE
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If I am calculating correctly, looks like it ends up being $35 more than the $449 a month VW was previously listing.
 

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ID.4 Pro S Gradient AWD pre-ordered 9/23/2020
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I love me some Leasehackr! I鈥檓 always stalking it looking for the 鈥渞ight鈥 deal. Sadly, leasing isn鈥檛 always good for me as I need minimum 15,000 miles/year.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
If I am calculating correctly, looks like it ends up being $35 more than the $449 a month VW was previously listing.
When I reverse calculated the initial numbers, I got a MF of .00089. It's unfortunate that actually launched it with .00143. It'll likely fall over time as demand drops and supply increases. They have a captive audience with their 1st Edition customers.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Are they actually folding the full $7,500 tax credit into the lease? Which other car companies are doing that

The Mustang Mach-E appears to provide two lease options:
  • a standard lease, customers do not appear to benefit from the $7,500 tax credit
  • a "Ford Options" lease where you actually get the vehicle title in your name. If at the end of the lease you choose to purchase with the balloon payment then (and only then meaning the next year) do you get the $7,500 tax credit

So my question is - is VW the only manufacturer building the $7,500 into a greatly discounted lease? Will they cause other manufacturers to do the same - because then leasing an EV looks a lot more like the lease cost of a gasoline car.
VW Credit had a $7,500 lease incentive equivalent to the tax credit amount on e-Golf, and BMW FS does the same for i3 (but not their plug-in hybrids).

Some manufacturers choose to "pass on" a much smaller amount, but inflate their residual values instead to come up with a competitive lease (e.g., Ford Credit's Mach-E lease has a higher residual than their Ford Options balloon financing).

My only hope is that there's some additional cash incentive mid-month, but I'm not holding my breath.
 

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ID.4 Pro S AWD / Waiting, waiting, waiting
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Are they actually folding the full $7,500 tax credit into the lease? Which other car companies are doing that

The Mustang Mach-E appears to provide two lease options:
  • a standard lease, customers do not appear to benefit from the $7,500 tax credit
  • a "Ford Options" lease where you actually get the vehicle title in your name. If at the end of the lease you choose to purchase with the balloon payment then (and only then meaning the next year) do you get the $7,500 tax credit

So my question is - is VW the only manufacturer building the $7,500 into a greatly discounted lease? Will they cause other manufacturers to do the same - because then leasing an EV looks a lot more like the lease cost of a gasoline car.
With the Ford Options, it is set up similar to a regular car loan so you own the car day 1 with Ford as a lienholder. You can claim the $7,500 tax credit immediately. If at the end term, you decide you do not want to make the balloon payment, you are basically selling back the car to Ford at the balloon payment price.

I don't know about Ford, but the various lease deals I have seen in the past from other brands provided all (or most) of the tax credit into cap reduction [or overinflated the residual value]. I know BMW, Fiat and Hyundai did for sure.
 

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Hi folks,

I run a community called Leasehackr where people come to discuss car deals, learn tips and tricks on negotiating, and browse deals on our Marketplace.

My VW dealer source shared these lease numbers for 2021 ID.4 First Edition this month:

36/10K
RV: 46%
MF: .00143
$7,500 lease credit

Here's what the lease looks like in Southern California with $0 cap cost reduction aside from the lease credit:


Not a cheap lease by any means. We have an ID.4 scheduled to arrive in 2-3 weeks, but also considering a Mach-E at those rates. The other alternative is to finance conventionally through a credit union, but I'd rather have someone else take on the risk of depreciation.

Michael
At $574 per month, that is about $120 more than the estimate given on the VW web site. Why is that? You are correct, that is a really expensive lease, more expensive that Mach-e and Model Y.
 

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Dusk Blue ID.4 FE
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The calculator linked didn't include the down payment and acquisition fee due at signing.

Here is a calc with those two things included:

It brings the pre-tax monthly payment closer, but still not the $445 stated in November.
 

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Proud FE owner
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In Washington State there is a partial sales tax exemption on EV purchase and lease (and I'm sure there are others will similar programs). Through July 31, 2021, this exempts the state 6.8% sales tax (6.5% general sales tax, .3% vehicle lease/sales tax) on the first $25,000 of the vehicle ($1,700).

How would this affect the Leasehackr score?
 
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Registered User
Joined
324 Posts
Hi folks,

I run a community called Leasehackr where people come to discuss car deals, learn tips and tricks on negotiating, and browse deals on our Marketplace.

My VW dealer source shared these lease numbers for 2021 ID.4 First Edition this month:

36/10K
RV: 46%
MF: .00143
$7,500 lease credit
46% residual seems really low. There was quite a bit of discussion of low residuals on Mach-e over on the Mach-e forum. The Ford Options with 2.25% APR was high, but this VW lease is worse.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 · (Edited)
I've confirmed the VW Credit numbers with another source. The lease calculator inputs I linked are correct for ID.4 this month. You can customize inputs like mileage, sales tax, dealer fee, and government fees:


If you're in California, you can add $1,500 and $5,000 to "taxed incentives" for the Clean Fuel Reward point-of-sale rebate and CVAP grant respectively (if applicable). Many people are also eligible for CVRP which will cover most, if not all, the drive-off amount.

As for leasing vs. buying, you'll be paying ~$3,000 (plus tax) in finance charges by leasing, plus a $699 lease acquisition fee (plus tax). The lease money factor of .00143 is high. For that reason, we'll likely be financing at 1.85% for 60 months (VW Credit rate for ID.4), rather than leasing.

Leasing makes sense when manufacturers have inflated/optimistic residual values for their lease (e.g., Bolt EV and i3) and actual depreciation is much higher, but it seems VW is being conservative here with a 46% residual (15K/year) or 49% residual (10K/year).
 

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Proud FE owner
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Thanks for the analysis and insight to your decision making.

With your calculator, it would be helpful for some to have a self-calculated option for the sales tax. In Washington State, we have an EV sales tax incentive that forgives the state portion of our sales tax for the first $25,000 of the purchase price.
 
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After the long wait and seeing the lease numbers. Also reading and watching a lot of not so encouraging reviews. I am most likely canceling my FE. My 3/10 test drive is 115 miles from where I live. So that鈥檚 not happening. I鈥檝e had over a dozen VW/Audi. A bit disappointed with VW right now. My next door neighbors 1st Edition Grabber Blue Mach-E is not helping either.
 

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Blue ID.4 1st Edition
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As for leasing vs. buying, you'll be paying ~$3,000 (plus tax) in finance charges by leasing, plus a $699 lease acquisition fee (plus tax). The lease money factor of .00143 is high. For that reason, we'll likely be financing at 1.85% for 60 months (VW Credit rate for ID.4), rather than leasing.
Thank you for the VW Credit rate information! That has been one of my major uncertainties, but if they are offering 1.85% for 60 month financing, that is a big plus for me.
 

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Thanks for the analysis. I will have to lease because, being retired, I pay very little federal income tax, and leasing is the only way to get the $7,500 credit.
 

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2021 VW ID.4 1st Edition, Dusk Blue <3
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I've confirmed the VW Credit numbers with another source. The lease calculator inputs I linked are correct for ID.4 this month. You can customize inputs like mileage, sales tax, dealer fee, and government fees:


If you're in California, you can add $1,500 and $5,000 to "taxed incentives" for the Clean Fuel Reward point-of-sale rebate and CVAP grant respectively (if applicable). Many people are also eligible for CVRP which will cover most, if not all, the drive-off amount.

As for leasing vs. buying, you'll be paying ~$3,000 (plus tax) in finance charges by leasing, plus a $699 lease acquisition fee (plus tax). The lease money factor of .00143 is high. For that reason, we'll likely be financing at 1.85% for 60 months (VW Credit rate for ID.4), rather than leasing.

Leasing makes sense when manufacturers have inflated/optimistic residual values for their lease (e.g., Bolt EV and i3) and actual depreciation is much higher, but it seems VW is being conservative here with a 46% residual (15K/year) or 49% residual (10K/year).
Gotta ask my dealer about that 1.85%, they were quoting me 2.33% for 60 month
 

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Gotta ask my dealer about that 1.85%, they were quoting me 2.33% for 60 month
The rate varies a lot depending on your credit rating, so most of the rates you see quoted are only for the highest rated people.
 
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