[jgoodnough]

Most of you are probably unaware but MA has not allowed kWh pricing on DCFC with the state viewing car charging in the same category as home electric use. The state officials simply didn't "get" the difference. Nor did they care that people were being massively overcharged because the rates were set by the "minute" previously. In cold weather with chargers working slowly it could cost twice the cost of gasoline to charge at a DCFC. Now it appears something has changed. I got an email from EVGo today stating that they are now switching to kWh pricing on their DCFC and Time-of-Use rates too. I certainly hope Electrify America will follow in that path immediately too.

 

[Justin8888CT]

Most of you are probably unaware but MA has not allowed kWh pricing on DCFC with the state viewing car charging in the same category as home electric use. The state officials simply didn't "get" the difference. Nor did they care that people were being massively overcharged because the rates were set by the "minute" previously. In cold weather with chargers working slowly it could cost twice the cost of gasoline to charge at a DCFC. Now it appears something has changed. I got an email from EVGo today stating that they are now switching to kWh pricing on their DCFC and Time-of-Use rates too. I certainly hope Electrify America will follow in that path immediately too.

I just got an email today from EVGo with the same change in CT. Billing per minute is a ridiculous way to do EV charging.

 

[Pres]

I just got an email today from EVGo with the same change in CT. Billing per minute is a ridiculous way to do EV charging.

I would understand if there was a small time-based fee component (especially during peak charger use hours), but I agree that it should primarily be based off of the energy delivered.

 

[crimsona]

I just got an email today from EVGo with the same change in CT. Billing per minute is a ridiculous way to do EV charging.

Is it actually similar pricing or is it a hidden price hike?

Fixed per minute billing incentivises purchases of faster charging vehicles and penalizes purchases of slower ones like the bolt and leaf, and also discourages trickling at a charger from 90 to 100 percent

 

[Nai3t]

Optimally a complex hybrid billing scheme would be used: on/off-peak per kWh pricing to reflect what the utility is charging the DCFC provider, combined with per-minute charges based on site demand, and perhaps a flat session fee to encourage charging less frequently / at lower states of charge, or to encourage use at alternative, less impacted locations.

And of course idle fees!

But that's all a way off. First these charging networks need to get reliable, and automakers have some work to do, too.

 

[Froggy]

Is it actually similar pricing or is it a hidden price hike?

Fixed per minute billing incentivises purchases of faster charging vehicles and penalizes purchases of slower ones like the bolt and leaf, and also discourages trickling at a charger from 90 to 100 percent

If the EA stations delivered at the advertised rates, but they don't so neither do I.

 

[Justin8888CT]

Is it actually similar pricing or is it a hidden price hike?

Fixed per minute billing incentivises purchases of faster charging vehicles and penalizes purchases of slower ones like the bolt and leaf, and also discourages trickling at a charger from 90 to 100 percent

That only works if the vehicle is the limiting factor. Under the per-minute model, charge providers are actually incentivised to supply even slower power.

Imagine filling your ICE vehicle, paying by the minute, but the pump only puts out a trickle of fuel. Certain government agencies would have a field day with that one.

 

[BostonMonster]

My personal experience with EA chargers is that per minute rate is cheaper than per kWh rate. Having done roughly 20 DCFC charges on the free EA plan, I usually get around 50 KWH delivered in 30 minutes at about $9 total. In states where per KWH was charged that I experienced (VA,NC, SC all @ .43/KwH), it was at least double that. For MA, the per minute price is actually lower than per KwH price charge at home which is currently at around $0.50/KWH.

So for me, I would hope that EA doesn't transition to per KwH rates.

 

[IslandLarry]

In many states, believe it or not (I didn’t until reading a very informative article on the subject), it is/was actually illegal for non electrical utilities to sell/resell electricity, so instead they had to charge you for the time instead.

I suspect that this law written years ago to protect public utility monopolies is what was changed recently in MA and CT.

The article (I wish I could remember where In read it) said this hindered wide scale rollout of charging infrastructure.

 

[Justin8888CT]

My personal experience is that per minute rate is cheaper than per kWh rate. Having done roughly 20 DCFC charges now, I usually get around 50 KWH delivered in 30 minutes at about $9 total. In states where per KWH was charged, it was at least double that price. For MA, the per minute price is actually lower than per KwH price charge at home which is currently $0.43/KWH

That sounds like the provider wasn't priced high enough to account for your charge rate. They certainly paid for the power by kWh, so they could potentially see a net loss on the sale to you. That's not good for EV drivers who want to see charging infrastructure expand. There is zero incentive to build more chargers and keep them running if they're likely to lose money on it. Another driver may have charged at a much slower rate and was therefore charged more money for less electricity which makes no sense. Charging by volume is more fair for both consumers and suppliers.

Electicity prices are very high right now, especially in MA and CT. For residential users, you're stuck with the Delivery charge, but it is well worth the extra effort to sign up for competitive supply instead of just accepting the utility standard rate. Eversource Delivery for me is ~$0.152/kWh. Standard supply just went to $0.0242/kWh in CT, so $0.394/ kWh total. I have a third-party supply locked in at $0.0899/kWh through 12/2024, so my total rate is $0.242/kWh. That is definitely worth my time to check the supplier website for a few minutes every 6 months or so to see what is available.

 

[Justin8888CT]

In many states, believe it or not (I didn’t until reading a very informative article on the subject), it is/was actually illegal for non electrical utilities to sell/resell electricity, so instead they had to charge you for the time instead.

I suspect that this law written years ago to protect public utility monopolies is what was changed recently in MA and CT.

The article (I wish I could remember where In read it) said this hindered wide scale rollout of charging infrastructure.

That sounds familiar. So many laws are written with one purpose in mind but have unintended consequences when things change or new technology comes on the market. Hopefully legislatures can recognize these issues and correct them quickly enough (I know ... ) to remove these obstacles.

 

[Cape_cat]

My personal experience with EA chargers is that per minute rate is cheaper than per kWh rate. Having done roughly 20 DCFC charges on the free EA plan, I usually get around 50 KWH delivered in 30 minutes at about $9 total. In states where per KWH was charged that I experienced (VA,NC, SC all @ .43/KwH), it was at least double that. For MA, the per minute price is actually lower than per KwH price charge at home which is currently at around $0.50/KWH.

So for me, I would hope that EA doesn't transition to per KwH rates.

After reading this thread I checked my EA transaction history (yes, it’s mostly available now, though it’s missing 2 of 11 sessions). I’ve charged in MA, CT, NJ & PA. MA & PA charged .32 per min. CT & NJ charged .43 per kWh.
I calculated the per kWh cost for all the per min sessions and they ranged from .27 at Max Charging Rate = 80 kW, to .52 at Max Charging Rate = 40 kW.
So, as @BostonMonster said, the per minute rate seems a better deal so long as the Max Charging Rate is 50 kW or more.
Still, it just feels wrong to charge by elapsed time.
@Justin8888CT had the perfect analogy -

Imagine filling your ICE vehicle, paying by the minute, but the pump only puts out a trickle of fuel.

 

[BostonMonster]

I think I've just been lucky in that all my DCFC charging rates have been at least 80-90 KwH after it reached > 30% SOC. The highest I've gotten was 190 KwH when I started the charging with single digit or low teen SOC (on 350 KwH chargers)