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Ford to switch over from CCS DC Fast Charging Standard to NACS (Tesla) in 2025

2870 Views 89 Replies 30 Participants Last post by Froggy, 2 h ago

Manybees

Discussion Starter · 9 d ago

This seems like fairly big news for the North American EV market:

In 2025, Ford will offer next-generation electric vehicles with the North American Charging Standard (NACS) connector built-in, eliminating the need for an adapter to access Tesla Superchargers.

https://media.ford.com/content/fordmedia/fna/us/en/news/2023/05/25/ford-ev-customers-to-gain-access-to-12-000-tesla-superchargers--.html

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BlueDH

· #2 · 9 d ago

I’m sure this will make Tesla owners a little frosty.
I’m happy, less BEVs at EA 😉.

Reactions: 2

Nai3t

· #3 · 9 d ago

I'm not reading this as a "switch to," but an "addition of." Farley talks about the NACS "doubling the number of chargers available" to Ford owners. The Blue Oval Charging Network includes EVGo and Electrify America locations (CCS) among others, so unless they're considering using a Tesla port to CCS cable adapter, this sounds like a two-port option.

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Stu Ncal EV

· #4 · 9 d ago (Edited)

In 2025 ford cars will have the Tesla charging port built in. Until then they will use an adapter. Probably a portable adapter not the magic dock. Tesla does not have to retrofit superchargers with magic dock anymore, maybe they found a way around the government requirement to add magic docks.

Since Tesla now has another car manufacturer using the Tesla plug, they can now get federal funds without opening up their supercharger network to CCS cars. Bad news for VW owners and other non ford ev’s.

Reactions: 3

bish79

· #5 · 9 d ago

BlueDH said:
I’m sure this will make Tesla owners a little frosty.
I’m happy, less BEVs at EA 😉.

My wife asked what will happen when the superchargers get all clogged up with Fords. I said, Tesla will do what they always do and build more superchargers. This is not new to them. Its just accelerating their need to build out the network more.

Reactions: 3

TidingSStables

· #6 · 9 d ago

bish79 said:
My wife asked what will happen when the superchargers get all clogged up with Fords. I said, Tesla will do what they always do and build more superchargers. This is not new to them. Its just accelerating their need to build out the network more.

As long as they builds cars with fast charge rates unlike BZ4x, and battery pre conditioning unlike ID.4 then people would get in and out quickly. I expect Tesla will double their stalls at current location going from 20 to 40 since the permit process would be much easier. It would help if car companies build charge ports on the rear left instead of everywhere else then arriving at Superchargers will be like clockwork. Also by 2025 the 500 kW version 5 chargers should be out, while CCS is maxed at 350 kW.

pezzy668

· #7 · 9 d ago

Curious how this all plays out. I can definitely see Tesla owners not being too terribly happy about another hit to the exclusive charging network that makes the ownership experience better than CCS equipped EV.

While I have never physically touched or used a Tesla plug just looking at its small form factor it really looks like its much easier to handle than the big chunky & clunky CCS. I'm sure they still get stiff and hard to handle just like CCS cords in sub-freezing temps but I'm sure its still probably much easier to handle.

I do think Tesla might be going down an unknown path with the magic dock and now with Ford coming online that might cause hits to their charger reliability. Magic dock adds additional complexity and as we have seen with smashed up broken CCS handles there are a number of people that don't give a crap about trying to take care of things, then you have people yanking and stretching on the cords to reach ports that are not in same location as Tesla. I think the reliability was a result of the K.I.S.S. principle with the cars and chargers designed together - now there is more complexity being tossed in.

I really don't care whether everyone eventually settles on CCS or NACS - as long as there is a robust public charging network I am good.

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hks

· #8 · 9 d ago

Nai3t said:
I'm not reading this as a "switch to," but an "addition of." Farley talks about the NACS "doubling the number of chargers available" to Ford owners. The Blue Oval Charging Network includes EVGo and Electrify America locations (CCS) among others, so unless they're considering using a Tesla port to CCS cable adapter, this sounds like a two-port option.

This article states they are switching over to tesla charger in 2025 model cars not adding another charger, the "in addition" is for present Ford EV owners.

North American Charging Standard (NACS) Archives

electrek.co

Reactions: 1

Spin

· #9 · 9 d ago

The 2 port option seems to be the best option at this point and I can see other manufacturers adding the NACS connector to their vehicles.

Reactions: 1

MR. Ed of course

· #10 · 9 d ago

If Ford can make an agreement with Tesla - so can all the other EV makers. Tesla will be making an adapter for Ford - which will also work on all other CCS ports. Tesla will likely make more $$$$$$ selling electricity and adapters than it does on its cars. YMMV.

Reactions: 2

BlueDH

· #11 · 8 d ago

Very well said.

pezzy668 said:
Curious how this all plays out. I can definitely see Tesla owners not being too terribly happy about another hit to the exclusive charging network that makes the ownership experience better than CCS equipped EV.

While I have never physically touched or used a Tesla plug just looking at its small form factor it really looks like its much easier to handle than the big chunky & clunky CCS. I'm sure they still get stiff and hard to handle just like CCS cords in sub-freezing temps but I'm sure its still probably much easier to handle.

I do think Tesla might be going down an unknown path with the magic dock and now with Ford coming online that might cause hits to their charger reliability. Magic dock adds additional complexity and as we have seen with smashed up broken CCS handles there are a number of people that don't give a crap about trying to take care of things, then you have people yanking and stretching on the cords to reach ports that are not in same location as Tesla. I think the reliability was a result of the K.I.S.S. principle with the cars and chargers designed together - now there is more complexity being tossed in.

I really don't care whether everyone eventually settles on CCS or NACS - as long as there is a robust public charging network I am good.

Stu Ncal EV

· #12 · 8 d ago

If VW does a deal similar to Ford, then EA could lose funding and stop expanding and just give up fixing problems and we existing owners could be stuck with an overcrowded and even more unreliable EA network without the ability to charge at Tesla until an adapter comes out. That’s the Worst case scenario.

our 3 years of free charging becomes unusable as EA becomes an albatross

or maybe NEVA keeps adding CCS stations and tesla creates a portable magic dock adapter that anyone can use with the Tesla app. I’ve noticed that Tesla has not added any more magic dock stations after the initial 2 in California and 8-10 in NY etc.

MR. Ed of course

· #13 · 8 d ago

VW is REQUIRED to spend $10 BILLION on EA. They and many other charger manufacturers/installers also want to make huge profits selling electricity to all CCS EVs and even Teslas with adapters. The demand is already there and GROWING. YMMV.

Reactions: 1

ericy

· #14 · 8 d ago

pezzy668 said:
Curious how this all plays out. I can definitely see Tesla owners not being too terribly happy about another hit to the exclusive charging network that makes the ownership experience better than CCS equipped EV.

While I have never physically touched or used a Tesla plug just looking at its small form factor it really looks like its much easier to handle than the big chunky & clunky CCS. I'm sure they still get stiff and hard to handle just like CCS cords in sub-freezing temps but I'm sure its still probably much easier to handle.

I do think Tesla might be going down an unknown path with the magic dock and now with Ford coming online that might cause hits to their charger reliability. Magic dock adds additional complexity and as we have seen with smashed up broken CCS handles there are a number of people that don't give a crap about trying to take care of things, then you have people yanking and stretching on the cords to reach ports that are not in same location as Tesla. I think the reliability was a result of the K.I.S.S. principle with the cars and chargers designed together - now there is more complexity being tossed in.

I really don't care whether everyone eventually settles on CCS or NACS - as long as there is a robust public charging network I am good.

The elephant in the room is still the fact that CCS cars have charge ports all over the place, so it is harder for CCS cars to use superchargers without occupying more than one spot. I haven't heard one way or another if Ford is going to standardize to the same location as Tesla.

Personally I don't care one bit about the physical shape of the connector. The problems with CCS have little to nothing to do with the physical connector shape, and a lot more to do with excessive downtime and a poor record of maintaining the things.

Essentially some form of adapter is going to be needed - it won't need to be very smart (the magic dock thing is largely just a pass-through), but I can't help but wonder if they won't bother to roll out any more of the things. But they still need to deal with payment, and any change that requires automakers to push out new software is going to create a caste system.

I suspect that eventually, all of the CCS CPO will be forced to add a 2nd cable with a Tesla plug on it.

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MR. Ed of course

· #15 · 8 d ago

ericy said:
The elephant in the room is still the fact that CCS cars have charge ports all over the place, so it is harder for CCS cars to use superchargers without occupying more than one spot. I haven't heard one way or another if Ford is going to standardize to the same location as Tesla.

Personally I don't care one bit about the physical shape of the connector. The problems with CCS have little to nothing to do with the physical connector shape, and a lot more to do with excessive downtime and a poor record of maintaining the things.

Essentially some form of adapter is going to be needed - it won't need to be very smart (the magic dock thing is largely just a pass-through), but I can't help but wonder if they won't bother to roll out any more of the things. But they still need to deal with payment, and any change that requires automakers to push out new software is going to create a caste system.

I suspect that eventually, all of the CCS CPO will be forced to add a 2nd cable with a Tesla plug on it.

Tesla is already installing Magic Dock chargers in Europe with longer cables. That solves the problem of port location.

As more and more installers get into the mix, there will likely be more competition and an impetus to provide better service. Time will tell. YMMV.👏

ericy

· #16 · 8 d ago

MR. Ed of course said:
Tesla is already installing Magic Dock chargers in Europe with longer cables. That solves the problem of port location.

As more and more installers get into the mix, there will likely be more competition and an impetus to provide better service. Time will tell. YMMV.👏

Actually no - there is no magic dock (that I know of) in Europe, because Europe standardized on using the CCS connector.

Reactions: 5

MR. Ed of course

· #17 · 8 d ago

ericy said:
Actually no - there is no magic dock (that I know of) in Europe, because Europe standardized on using the CCS connector.

Thanks for the correction. However, the European Tesla chargers have longer cables.

Kitt

· #18 · 8 d ago

ericy said:
The elephant in the room is still the fact that CCS cars have charge ports all over the place, so it is harder for CCS cars to use superchargers without occupying more than one spot. I haven't heard one way or another if Ford is going to standardize to the same location as Tesla.

The v4 Superchargers that are being installed in Europe have longer cables. I assume Tesla will start deploying v4 Superchargers in US very soon.

Personally I don't care one bit about the physical shape of the connector. The problems with CCS have little to nothing to do with the physical connector shape, and a lot more to do with excessive downtime and a poor record of maintaining the things.

CCS type 1 (or rather J-1772) is actually part of the problem. The type 1 single hook is a more vulnerable than CCS type 2 (Mennekes), that has a similar and mechanically more stable locking mechanism as Tesla. The DC connection on a type 1 is less stable and the J-1772 hook can easily break off (if you regularly charge at a Chargepoint level 2 charger, you probably know what I mean).

However, I agree that what's more problematic in the US are the chargers. For some reason the latest generation CCS chargers deployed in Europe still haven't made their way to the US. Even the new EA chargers are still not the same generation as chargers in Europe.

Now that Ford has switched, it's safe to assume more will follow. Rivian is a no-brainer. Maybe GM. EA might die a slow and painful death (and honestly, they may deserve it given their failure to build a reliable network). Interesting times.

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ericy

· #19 · 8 d ago

Kitt said:
Now that Ford has switched, it's safe to assume more will follow. Rivian is a no-brainer. Maybe GM. EA might die a slow and painful death (and honestly, they may deserve it given their failure to build a reliable network). Interesting times.

It could take a while though - they get a fair amount of money from the auto manufacturers when they come up with these free charging deals.

Kitt

· #20 · 8 d ago

ericy said:
It could take a while though - they get a fair amount of money from the auto manufacturers when they come up with these free charging deals.

I assume that the amount of money Volkswagen invested in Electrify America significantly exceeds the revenue generated through their charging agreements.

And if I'm wrong, it's even worse for EA, since it's safe to assume that after Ford, Tesla will get more deals instead of EA.

I'm not saying EA will go bankrupt, but it's not impossible they'll become less relevant. Like EVGO. My first EV back in 2014 came with a two year free EVGO charging plan, similar to the EA deal with VW.

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