[Huey52]

Not by me. I'm on my 51st year on the icy Maine Coast, at the end of a ¼-mile of a climbing double-dogleg gravel drive, and we haven't bothered with snow tires since we needed Bridgestone Blizzaks to convert a Saturn SL2 from a skateboard into a drivable car. Everything else has rolled year-round on the best all-seasons we could find. That being said, my wife teaches, and if the school busses aren't rolling, neither are we. But in snow country there are few employers that don't cut employees some slack in bad weather.

I too find modern-best A/S tires just fine for my Winter driving. But I too can pick my snow days. If I had to again daily commute regardless of wx I'd be back to dedicated Winter rims/tires.

And again there's no argument that AWD gets you going better than RWD, but is no better at stopping.

 

[Manybees]

and walked uphill both ways to school in the snow. 😆

… in our bare feet against the wind

 

[SunWizard]

You may be able to drive on ice with the OE all seasons, but what about all the other drivers around you without the years of experience? You need to be able to stop and turn quick and get out of the way of everyone behind you. We get many hundreds of bad crashes and deaths here after the first big snow every year. Sometimes I see damaged cars and semi trucks in the ditches every 2 miles!

More than 300 crashes occur during Colorado’s first big snow

Colorado’s first widespread measurable snow of the season sparked chaos across Front Range roads Thursday.

gazette.com

Don't wait to call the tire store about winter tires right after the first bit of snow, since they will then be out of stock of the best tires and backed up appointments for many weeks/months!

100-Car Pileup Closes Denver Street After First Snow | Weather.com

The pileup was one of several multivehicle crashes after the Denver metro area received 2 to 5 inches of snow overnight.

weather.com

 

[blackout]

Many steps can be taken to mitigate the dangers of driving in wintry conditions

These all sound like sacrifices, to me at least. A car has to have tires on it for every mile it drives. If my all seasons go 30K miles, and they cost me $1300, that’s $0.0433/mi. If I stretch them for 45K of driven miles because they sat in my garage for 15K during the winter, then they only cost me $0.0288/mi. If my snow tires cost $600 and get me 15K miles, but actually 45K driven miles, that’s $0.0133/mi.

So, the cost of having two sets costs me, if my assumptions work out, $0.0133+$0.0288 = $0.0422/mi, or, less than having only all seasons. Will these assumptions prove out? Who knows. Is it ball park enough to call it a wash? You betcha. Is it much better and less sacrificing to drive snow tires in Upstate NY in the winter? You betcha.

 

[Dougie01]

Another calculation could be running winter tires all year round and replace them every other year, probably, which would be more tire cost but no wheel or storage or switchover cost. Also they would not age out like your all seasons will.

Plus when you hit the gigantic 3” deep hailstorm outside of Telluride in July* you have the right tires.

*Personal experience.

 

[SunWizard]

Another calculation could be running winter tires all year round and replace them every other year, probably, which would be more tire cost but no wheel or storage or switchover cost. Also they would not age out like your all seasons will.

That is the way I convinced myself in the past when I ran winter tires all year. Here are the rough numbers if I did this now, and assuming the OE tires are ready to be replaced junk like my Alenzas were so they don't count:
1.Run winter all year (I do about 10k miles a year and am rough on tires with a 4wd steep dirt driveway):
The tires last 30k instead of 40k due to added summer wear (based on my doing this on my Jeep GC with same weight as ID.4) The tires cost $1000 including mount/balance. so that is 2 sets or $2000 over 60k. =3.3 cents a mile.
2. Run a sort of winter tire like Cross climate 2 all year
This one is a trade off that works if you don't get lots of snow and ice like me, they get slightly better miles of life than my X-ice winter in option 1. Too hard to compare the $ since I don't want the worse performance in both summer and winter. I would just use my X-ice all year round.
3.Don't buy extra wheels and swap tires 2x a year (fall and spring):
Costs $80 per time for mount + balance, 6 years adds $960 to the numbers I give in the next part is why I don't do this. And I still have to store the tires somewhere.
or 4.Run 2 sets of wheels:
Buy a 2nd set of wheels/tires (but that cost is mostly tires so doesn't mess up this cost compare since I consume the tires and the wheels I could resell at the end.) Then I swap myself 2x a year or take to the shop where they do it for free but either way takes 3 hours of my time per year. This costs $2000 over 80k since both the summer and winter tires last longer on average 40k. =2.5 cents a mile.
This saves $500 over 60k miles but using 12-18 hours of my time swapping or in the waiting room at the shop over 6 years. So its kind of a wash money wise if your count your time $25/hour or if you have to pay to store the 2nd set. I choose this option to have the best performance, safety (braking and handling), and long life both from the winter set and the summer set. (and tire life warranty is not lost as with option 1)

I like swapping my own tires, even though I am old its one of the few regular car maintenance things left I can do myself.

 

[deepskier]

That is the way I convinced myself in the past when I ran winter tires all year. Here are the rough numbers if I did this now, and assuming the OE tires are ready to be replaced junk like my Alenzas were so they don't count:
1.Run winter all year (I do about 10k miles a year and am rough on tires with a 4wd steep dirt driveway):
The tires last 30k instead of 40k due to added summer wear (based on my doing this on my Jeep GC with same weight as ID.4) The tires cost $1000 including mount/balance. so that is 2 sets or $2000 over 60k. =3.3 cents a mile.
2. Run a sort of winter tire like Cross climate 2 all year
This one is a trade off that works if you don't get lots of snow and ice like me, they get slightly better miles of life than my X-ice winter in option 1. Too hard to compare the $ since I don't want the worse performance in both summer and winter. I would just use my X-ice all year round.
3.Don't buy extra wheels and swap tires 2x a year (fall and spring):
Costs $80 per time for mount + balance, 6 years adds $960 to the numbers I give in the next part is why I don't do this. And I still have to store the tires somewhere.
or 4.Run 2 sets of wheels:
Buy a 2nd set of wheels/tires (but that cost is mostly tires so doesn't mess up this cost compare since I consume the tires and the wheels I could resell at the end.) Then I swap myself 2x a year or take to the shop where they do it for free but either way takes 3 hours of my time per year. This costs $2000 over 80k since both the summer and winter tires last longer on average 40k. =2.5 cents a mile.
This saves $500 over 60k miles but using 12-18 hours of my time swapping or in the waiting room at the shop over 6 years. So its kind of a wash money wise if your count your time $25/hour or if you have to pay to store the 2nd set. I choose this option to have the best performance, safety (braking and handling), and long life both from the winter set and the summer set. (and tire life warranty is not lost as with option 1)

I like swapping my own tires, even though I am old its one of the few regular car maintenance things left I can do myself.

I'm with you on #4. Plus I can put the snow tires on at 9pm the night before the 1st time I need them each year 😅.

Highly recommend the rennstand, feels safer, and let's you use the jack at an angle in a tight garage and still fit everything on the pinch weld, which greatly sped up the process for me.

RENNSTAND

RennStand® is a groundbreaking, multi-patented car jack stand that redefines safety and convenience. Designed to lift and support your vehicle at the factory-designated jacking points, it combines compactness, adjustability, and strength in one lightweight, versatile solution.

rennstand.com

 

[VW TECHNICIAN]

Its that time when the questions about winter tires appear. This year I found some good tests of rolling resistance (RR) between many winter tire choices. To compare the effect of the kg/t RR numbers below, there are multiple tests I have linked in other threads showing that the popular Michelin cross climate 2s gave 10-13% less range than stock and they measure 7.9kg/t RR. There are many tires that are even worse, likely since most people with ICE cars don't even care about or look at RR. The Continental WinterContact TS870P is the best I found at 6.49, I wonder if we can get them in the US? I bought Michelin X Ice Snow after much research since they are rated best for ice braking, and decent for loose snow, and they have been great through last winter. Testing from www.tyrereviews.com and www.alltyretests.com, too bad they are UK based and I can't find any US based testers who report RR numbers:

View attachment 28786
View attachment 28787

Thank you.
This type of thread should be always in the top of this forum and never let it fall down because of when was created or not many people are posting on this thread with time passing.
Because there are some valuable information on tires and people that are interested on what they are spending money when buying new tires.
I hope Forum administrator could make this happen or change how some threads on this forum are getting lost or fallen down because of no posting or age of the thread.
It should stick always to the top of VW ID Talk forum.
@SunWizard has posted many great threads on this forum and some other members also that should have this threads always saying at the top of this forum, irrelevant to age of thread or how often people post on the thread.

 

[SunWizard]

Because there are some valuable information on tires

I found even better info from the EU tyre database, so thanks go to the Germans who made this a law we can get better data to the whole world on RR and noise. I compiled this data in post#29 and added it to post#1 now for new people who get here and don't read that far down the thread. We had a proposed RR law and label by NHTSA way back in 2007, but I guess the fossil fuel lobby is just too strong here in the US and they stopped that.

https://www.nhtsa.gov/sites/nhtsa.dot.gov/files/pria-rollingresistance.pdf

 

[Dougie01]

The people who ran the Honda Insight forum had an associated "encyclopedia" web page with all sorts of collected information about the car. I think that has gone away, but it was extremely useful.

 

[Dougie01]

Here's a Norwegian winter tire test that has some fuel consumption (Drivstofforbruk) info.

 

[blackout]

I'm with you on #4. Plus I can put the snow tires on at 9pm the night before the 1st time I need them each year 😅.

Highly recommend the rennstand, feels safer, and let's you use the jack at an angle in a tight garage and still fit everything on the pinch weld, which greatly sped up the process for me.

RENNSTAND

RennStand® is a groundbreaking, multi-patented car jack stand that redefines safety and convenience. Designed to lift and support your vehicle at the factory-designated jacking points, it combines compactness, adjustability, and strength in one lightweight, versatile solution.

rennstand.com

This is pretty cool. Did you use the universal pad they sell?

 

[buzzlightyear]

Just wanted to mention that CrossClimate2 tires earn a better rolling resistance rating than the CrossClimate2 SUV tires listed in the original post. In 235/60R18 it’s an A rating vs a B rating in rolling resistance.

Still waiting for my 235/60R18 107H XL set.

 

[SunWizard]

Just wanted to mention that CrossClimate2 tires earn a better rolling resistance rating than the CrossClimate2 SUV tires listed in the original post. In 235/60R18 it’s an A rating vs a B rating in rolling resistance.

Looking up the CC2 in the EU database is tricky since they have many with different ratings from A to C, some with SUV after them, some are not CC2 but the original CC, some are different load rating than what we can get in US, some are only made for 1 OE brand. The CC2 marked A/W are C. The A rated ones are made for volvo and marked VOL, and I cannot find them in the US. So I used the SUV marked ones that are available in the US which are B. Let me know if you can find the VOL marked model rated A somewhere.

 

[buzzlightyear]

Looking up the CC2 in the EU database is tricky since they have many with different ratings from A to C, some with SUV after them, some are not CC2 but the original CC, some are different load rating than what we can get in US, some are only made for 1 OE brand. The A rated ones are made for volvo and marked VOL, and I cannot find them in the US. So I used the SUV marked ones that are available in the US which are B. Let me know if you can find the VOL marked model rated A somewhere.

The ones I mentioned, that I ordered, are 235/60R18 107H, same specs as the VOL ones. Same size, same 107H speed rating, same XL load rating. A/W just means all weather, which is how they’re designated in the USA. In Europe they’re called all season tires. It’s just naming.

If you get ones with a higher speed rating, such as the CrossClimate2 SUV ones that were listed, or the CrossClimate2 235/60R18 107V, they’re obviously going to be stickier tires with higher rolling resistance. Those tires typically have a B rating in rolling resistance.

 

[SunWizard]

The ones I mentioned, that I ordered, are 235/60R18 107H, same specs as the VOL ones.

They don't get A unless marked on the sidewall VOL. The load/speed rating is not the only factor so you cannot compare US ones solely by that, its the other markings. Let us know what your sidewalls are marked, and hopefully its not A/W since those are C. The models I found in most sizes of CC2 at Tirerack are the A/W marked, rated C. Note many of the EU tires in that database like the VOL are not available in the US so we might not be able to find a rating. Edit: it would be interesting to find out what Volvo specs different for their OE tires. This is why I put the B on the chart, since the CC2 ratings for EU are all over the place even for the same sizes.

Edit: here is an article showing the EU CC2 tires are very different than US made ones we get: "In line with the European edition’s distinction as a made-for-market product (as opposed to an export of the US version that was launched last year), the Michelin CrossClimate 2 is manufactured exclusively in seven European plants, chiefly in France, Germany, Italy and Spain. " Maybe someday we get a US reviewer who tests our models for RR.

Michelin launches bespoke European CrossClimate 2 all-season tyre - Tyrepress

In 2015, Michelin disrupted the all-season tyre market with the launch of the CrossClimate - a tyre that approached year-round performance from a different direction. Now, following the launch its successor (the CrossClimate 2) in the US at the end of 2020, the world's largest tyremaker has...

www.tyrepress.com

 

[deepskier]

This is pretty cool. Did you use the universal pad they sell?

I have the universal pinch weld pad but it's an older version that has a 0.5 inch gap between supports. The new universal one is narrower. I haven't used mine on the ID4 yet, Just on my Audi Allroad.

 

[CapeEVr]

Going to Michelin X-Ice over CrossClimate2 does not give a huge winter performance gain according to TireRack.com stats. Both are considered excellent. The CrossClimate2 has a 60k manufacturer warranty over the X-Ice 40k. I'm more inclined to go for the excellent A/S tire over the dedicated winter tires mainly because of the expense ($2k+), hassle moving them and storage space required.

Rolling resistance numbers are not yet mainstream and accuracy will come with more data and miles collected.

 

[dougchatch]

How does all this work with the ID4 having different tire sizes in the front vs rear? Has anybody bought a unified set of rims/tires for winter?

 

[SunWizard]

How does all this work with the ID4 having different tire sizes in the front vs rear? Has anybody bought a unified set of rims/tires for winter?

It works by sometimes the front have lower RR than rear, and sometimes its vice-versa, and you can see this difference on the chart I made on post #1. Yes I and many here have unified with 235/55R19 front tire size on all 4, its called "squared", many do it with 235/60R18 as well, but you cannot do it with the stock 20" rims since they are wider rims in back, see:

https://www.vwidtalk.com/search/350488/?q=squared&o=relevance

It gives many advantages, a big one being the tire mileage warranty is not cut in half as we get with staggered sizes, since they cannot be rotated.