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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
 

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I was just about to share this haha. Since the ID.4 is being sold in North America and has a bit more space I think it's going to outsell the ID.3

 

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Interesting comment to note about her reference to VoA telling her about having units available at dealers in December. Gives a little hope that some 1st Edition buyers will get to kick tires before delivery.
 

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key point also is that the "drive" episode footage has also already been recorded & is forthcoming. I did not like hearing that the models made in TN will not be 11kW capable & likely 7.2kW on Level 2. It is my hope this information is wrong.
 

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I did not like hearing that the models made in TN will not be 11kW capable & likely 7.2kW on Level 2. It is my hope this information is wrong.
I heard that as well...being implemented to further save cost. She justified it saying something to the effect that the current US infrastructure isn't really setup to support 11 kW charging. I have a hard time believing VW will change the charger...unless it's only for the small battery option that will be available then. Most people don't have 240A outlets in their garage now anyway and when they go ahead and add a circuit I imagine most people will install a higher capacity line.
 

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With the ID.4 obviously coming off the production line for some time now, any sense of why there are no tests from Germany or elsewhere of actual production vehicles, as opposed to prototypes? They must be going somewhere.
 

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I heard that as well...being implemented to further save cost. She justified it saying something to the effect that the current US infrastructure isn't really setup to support 11 kW charging. I have a hard time believing VW will change the charger...unless it's only for the small battery option that will be available then. Most people don't have 240A outlets in their garage now anyway and when they go ahead and add a circuit I imagine most people will install a higher capacity line.
I believe it’s for the 58kw battery?
 

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ID4:1E - Blue Dusk Metallic
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The power to the garage for the vast majority of folks by my POV is already setup for lights & a garage door opener. So when an EVSE is considered, wiring must be installed. That said, many "older homes" have 100 amp service (if that). Yes, newer homes have 200 amp service. Alas, an 11kW (48 amp) EVSE would need a 60 amp dual-pole, whereas a 7.2 kW (32 amp) would need a 40 amp dual. Something to remember. Oh if you have bus bar or knob in tube, you need to upgrade your house. (don't be surprised, they're is alotta old stuff out there)

Most new builds are actually seeing/getting code added by municipalities to have 100 amp subpanel service for the garage alone.
 

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I heard that as well...being implemented to further save cost. She justified it saying something to the effect that the current US infrastructure isn't really setup to support 11 kW charging. I have a hard time believing VW will change the charger...unless it's only for the small battery option that will be available then. Most people don't have 240A outlets in their garage now anyway and when they go ahead and add a circuit I imagine most people will install a higher capacity line.
I am not much worried about this. For one, such a small change to a circuit board and creating an entirely new part would maybe not be worth the effort. Even if they do, in my scenario, which is likely similar for others, it won't change our experience: I have a super low electricity rate from midnight to 6am. At 7.2 kW I can charge from about 20% to 80% during that time slot. At 11 kW I can charge a bit more, but when exactly is this a relevant use case? Rarely, I think.

I disagree with the notion that most people don't have 240V in their garage. Out here in CA most folks I know have a 240V/30A dryer outlet in the garage or nearby, and many have put in a 50A RV circuit. Not sure what this is like elsewhere.
 

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I disagree with the notion that most people don't have 240V in their garage. Out here in CA most folks I know have a 240V/30A dryer outlet in the garage or nearby, and many have put in a 50A RV circuit. Not sure what this is like elsewhere.
With that POV, know that with your 30A claim, you can only put in a 24 Amp EVSE = 6.3 kW output... And a 50 Amp circuit would still only permit a 32 Amp EVSE = 7.2 kW (a 40Amp breaker would suffice). Code is for the circuit breaker to be 125% greater than maximum performance. So with an 11 kW EVSE @48 Amp would need a 240V/60Amp breaker.


I can see why power companies that are offering rebates for EVSE (or giving them out to their customers who are new EV owners), require proof of professional installation & even inspection of said rebated EVSE.
 

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In warm weather US states yes, many times the washer/dryer/water heater appliances are in the garage. But rarely in the colder states (water line freezing concerns, not to mention Winter discomfort in using them).

However my electrician friend told me recently that he heard that the ever-evolving national electric code (NEC) will mandate garage 240V rough-in for all homes built in 2022 and on (I spec'd same for my new home in 2017 ;)

btw: If the charge capacity degradation for TN-built ID.4's comes to pass just another example of the pitfalls of downstream "value engineering" we discussed elsewhere.

I am not much worried about this. For one, such a small change to a circuit board and creating an entirely new part would maybe not be worth the effort. Even if they do, in my scenario, which is likely similar for others, it won't change our experience: I have a super low electricity rate from midnight to 6am. At 7.2 kW I can charge from about 20% to 80% during that time slot. At 11 kW I can charge a bit more, but when exactly is this a relevant use case? Rarely, I think.

I disagree with the notion that most people don't have 240V in their garage. Out here in CA most folks I know have a 240V/30A dryer outlet in the garage or nearby, and many have put in a 50A RV circuit. Not sure what this is like elsewhere.
 

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In warm weather US states yes, many times the washer/dryer/water heater appliances are in the garage. But rarely in the colder states (water line freezing concerns, not to mention Winter discomfort in using them).

However my electrician friend told me recently that he heard that the ever-evolving national electric code (NEC) will mandate garage 240V rough-in for all homes built in 2022 and on (I spec'd same for my new home in 2017 ;)

btw: If the charge capacity degradation for TN-built ID.4's comes to pass just another example of the pitfalls of downstream "value engineering" we discussed elsewhere.
Wish that was code in 2015 when we built our house. Or that I had the foresight to have it added during construction. Having to do it now is going to cost me a lot more money. Oh well.
 

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I disagree with the notion that most people don't have 240V in their garage.
In warm weather US states yes, many times the washer/dryer/water heater appliances are in the garage. But rarely in the colder states (water line freezing concerns, not to mention Winter discomfort in using them).
There's also a portion of homes that use gas for the dryer and don't need 240V. As you mention though...again probably mostly in the colder states. In any case, I think derating the charger is a mistake for VW unless it's just an option.
 

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The best compromise is 9.6 KW charging, or 40 amp. This comes from a 50 amp breaker (50 x .8= 40). The 6-50 and 14-50 outlets all support this current as their maximum and modern 200 amp breaker boxes are more likely to have capacity for a 50 amp breaker being added, if it's not there already. Some EV's are coming with "convenience" chargers that support 9.6 KW, such as Porsche and Audi, and these cars also support Level 2 9.6 KW charging. The only current BMW EV (i3) only supports 7.2 KW charging while the PHEV's only do 3.6 KW (15 amp). I haven't looked at the other Japanese EV's but I suspect that they are 7.2 KW. 9.6 KW is also the "sweet spot" for pricing of EVSE's for the home.
 

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Has anyone put a nag email into VWOA regarding what the charge cable for id.4 will be like? It is possible that it could be a "convenience" charger, or not. It would be an interesting question to ask I suppose.
 

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Has anyone put a nag email into VWOA regarding what the charge cable for id.4 will be like? It is possible that it could be a "convenience" charger, or not. It would be an interesting question to ask I suppose.
So it's a 1.1kwh level 1 charger ... sad, but it makes my work for EVSE installation clearer now.
 

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key point also is that the "drive" episode footage has also already been recorded & is forthcoming. I did not like hearing that the models made in TN will not be 11kW capable & likely 7.2kW on Level 2. It is my hope this information is wrong.
The comment that 11kW is non standard for U.S. might have even come from here, back when were discussing that 11kW is a common European 3 phase charge model. With so many Tesla's charging at 11kW (48A), I would be surprised if they did not try to match Tesla, despite that they always say, Model Y, no, not competing with them! The specs pretty clearly say 11 kW, I should think VW of any of the manufacturers would be careful not to spec something wrong or misleading.

That said, 32A is very standard, agree 40A is a sweet spot, and 48A as @corfam taught me, is less than trivial (now running on the new #6AWG MC cable (like the old BX spiral clad cable, my old BX cutter worked fine)). It actually mounted a little nicer with the metal clamps. Also, the hardwired aspect of seemingly all 48A options is less desirable for those looking for a connector solution.

The next pain in wall stations (EVSE) will surely come with the step to 60A and above (the station, not the breaker rating), for it seems that now you also need a disconnect switch at the EVSE. Apparently common to some outdoor installations like A/C and some pool electrical systems, the disconnect will eventually be yet another new complication for most EV owners.
 

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Cost for my new circuit install (parts and labor) by electrician was just $36 more for upgrade to 60 amps from 50 amps (both hardwired). Both these options were less $ than 50 amp with NEMA outlet/GFCI. Admittedly though, the 48 amp EVSE was $265 more (Clipper Creek).
 
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