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Discussion Starter · #21 ·
I will probably be having it hard wired. I would like the 48A just in case and the safety aspect is a plus. I drive all day and then come home and leave again in the evenings to run to volleyball practices etc. I would like to be able to plug it in in between and make sure I have enough battery to get back across Houston.
 

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I will probably be having it hard wired. I would like the 48A just in case and the safety aspect is a plus. I drive all day and then come home and leave again in the evenings to run to volleyball practices etc. I would like to be able to plug it in in between and make sure I have enough battery to get back across Houston.
My sympathies. I drove across Houston twice in October. Hopefully you don’t have to drive through the construction hell on the West side.
 

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Clipper Creek, for one, has a "Share2" 64A dual-EVSE that feeds off of one 80A circuit. So for a household with two or three EVs, this one high capacity circuit would allow simultaneous charging of two vehicles.
 

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#17

Recommend he wire a 6-50 240V circuit to a socket and install paired-50A breakers which will accommodate 40A "max load" thruput. You'll need a 6-50 plug (my Chargepoint Flex could be ordered with either a 6-50 or a 14-50 plug).
But if you feel you need higher 48A thruput (albeit negligible time savings in a typical overnight session) then have him hardwire direct to your EVSE. Will require 60A breakers.
It is L2 240V (dual 120V split-phase) regardless hardwire or socketed.
I currently use a 6-50 receptacle, but only using 30 amps now with 40 amp breakers. The wiring is rated to 50 amps as I assumed I might be upgrading in the future. I need only change the breakers. That's the plan anyway. If I were to charge at an RV place I would need to use a 14-50 adapter, which I haven't had to do yet.
 

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I just received my charger and my ID4 Pro S is on a truck en route to the dealership. What is the difference between hard wiring and using an outlet for charging. I am having an electrician out next week.
Will it get the same voltage either way or is it diminished with the outlet?
I just used my clothes dryer outlet since I switched the dryer to propane gas, works fine.
 

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Yes, to some degree. In a typical overnight charging session 32A is plenty. But there are those who have long commutes and then want to readily recharge before more nighttime activities so in that case they would benefit from a higher amperage thruput. Then again "charge immediately to 50%" at 40A should suffice in the time it takes between those uses. And there's always EA DCFC if relatively nearby.
Again, everyone needs to examine their own specific needs, and their existing infrastructures, and plan/implement accordingly.
Faster L2 home charging times seems like a bragging rights contest if you ask me
 

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I'm going to have to disagree with the NEMA 6-50 advice - if you're pulling a new circuit from the panel there is NO GOOD REASON to go NEMA 6-50 over NEMA 14-50. There is one (and only one) reason to possibly favor NEMA 6-50 over 14-50 - you save material and labor costs of one wire (3 vs. 4 conductors). NEMA 6-50 has 3 wires - 2 hots and a ground whereas NEMA 14-50 has 2 hots, a ground, and a neutral. NEMA 6-50 is actually a legacy standard from the days of dumb 240V appliances that had analog controls. When digital electronics became the standard in appliances things transitioned to NEMA 14-50 because inside the appliance you could tap one of the hots and the neutral to get 120V - this is impossible if all you have is 2 hots and a ground. Both standards are rated the same as far as sustained/max load. Furthermore all modern 240V appliances are wired for NEMA 14-50 not 6-50. The reason a 6-50 EVSE is offered is for maximum compatibility with existing older circuits - if you have 240V in a 40 year old house it's probably NEMA 6-50. If you're pulling a new circuit, however, the price difference between the two is negligible IMHO. It's kind-of like installing a new 120V circuit but wiring up 2-prong receptacles instead of 3.

As far as plug vs. hardwire - go plug. Most people hardwiring are doing so because they want to get a 48A EVSE instead of a 40A EVSE (maximum for plug). IMHO hardwiring to chase an extra 8A is something that only matters for bragging rights - not in practical application. Why? Because if your car is charging in the dead of night does it really matter it takes 9 hours instead of 8? In either case it's charged up when you wake in the morning. Aside from that observation - a plug means you can use that plug for other purposes besides your EVSE - why not have the flexibility? Also if your EVSE goes bad or you want to change it - it's trivial with a plug. With hardwire - not so much...
I opted for plug in part because we owned one EV already when we ordered the ID4. My old charger was hardwired, I wanted to add two chargers that could share one circuit. I had the electrician install one and then just before my ID4 arrived I added the second one myself. I don’t see us ever taking one a trip, but I like knowing that if either of the two fails, I can replace on my own.
Vehicle Car Automotive lighting Hood Light
 

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There are occasional unexpected but necessary trips that come up and EA is 25 miles away and usually not in a direct line. Then people can also live in demand charge areas. That reduces the number of hours between starting a charge and leaving for work. In my case I used to have to be at work at 7 am and often an hour or two earlier.
 

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Well, one additional factor for hardwiring is participation in cost from your local electric utility. Mine offers a $500 rebate for certain approved EVSEs, but requires hardwiring. I presume that the reason for this is to prevent one from disconnecting the device and moving to a location served by a different utility.
That's what I thought until I emailed my utility (PGE of Oregon) and asked why they required it to be hardwired for the $500 rebate. Here is their response.

"Oregon updated electrical codes to align with the 2020 National Electric Code (NEC) in April 2021.The updates to the code require devices like EV chargers to be hardwired for safety purposes. We began requiring the hardwiring requirement May 1, 2021 to comply with these code updates."

Don't forget about the Federal tax credit offered through 12/31/21. It credits 30% of your EV and charger installation up to $1,000.
 

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What EVs can pull higher than 48 amps when charging? I thought none of them did. Early Teslas did, but not new ones.

What’s the reason to install an 80 amp circuit at home?
With every car manufacturer release new EVs do really believe they will never have an EV that can charge at 80amps again? In 5 years every EV may be able to charge at that rate.
 

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With every car manufacturer release new EVs do really believe they will never have an EV that can charge at 80amps again? In 5 years every EV may be able to charge at that rate.
I don't think it's a matter of "can they/will they."

I look at it from the user perspective. I think it's safe to say that most users don't need 80 amps for one vehicle.

Most users can fully recharge overnight with just 24 amps.

I expect we're at a battery sweet spot, and they're not going to grow much larger in capacity. I doubt most cars aren't going to get any less efficient. Most drivers' average daily mileage isn't going to change.

Then there's the impracticality of higher rates: today's battery technology is better off with a lower rate of charge. The electrical grid is certainly better of if every house on the block isn't suddenly pulling 80 amps at midnight.

I'm not suggesting 80 amp service isn't warranted, just that for any single vehicle in most daily usage cases it's unnecessary, even if it's capable.
 

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I don't think it's a matter of "can they/will they."

I look at it from the user perspective. I think it's safe to say that most users don't need 80 amps for one vehicle.

Most users can fully recharge overnight with just 24 amps.

I expect we're at a battery sweet spot, and they're not going to grow much larger in capacity. I doubt most cars aren't going to get any less efficient. Most drivers' average daily mileage isn't going to change.

Then there's the impracticality of higher rates: today's battery technology is better off with a lower rate of charge. The electrical grid is certainly better of if every house on the block isn't suddenly pulling 80 amps at midnight.

I'm not suggesting 80 amp service isn't warranted, just that for any single vehicle in most daily usage cases it's unnecessary, even if it's capable.
Again, you're not thinking ahead. All you're considering is your relatively small and efficient vehicle. In a few years when we start having vehicles like a one ton truck that is built to haul a heavy load that gets 1/4 the miles per kilowatt and has a battery 4 times larger than the ID.4 a 40 amp charger isn't going to be so great.
 

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That's still going to be the exception, not the norm.

The norm is going to be two or more EVs per household, so again, 80 amp service is warranted, but in most cases not for any one vehicle.

I can't italicize most any more then I already have.
 

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I will try to price out a 100 amp circuit and compare it with the 60 amp circuit price.

I wanted to get a Tesla Gen 2 charger with the J1772 connector, but they are suddenly gone from the Tesla site (not just marked as “out of stock” but gone altogether). They were introduced on November 1, so I’m not sure what happened there. I had to buy a 48 amp a Tesla Gen 3 adapter ($85 more), but it’s still a bargain. However, now I need to get a Tesla to J1772 adapter, and those are expensive.
 

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I will try to price out a 100 amp circuit and compare it with the 60 amp circuit price.

I wanted to get a Tesla Gen 2 charger with the J1772 connector, but they are suddenly gone from the Tesla site (not just marked as “out of stock” but gone altogether). They were introduced on November 1, so I’m not sure what happened there. I had to buy a 48 amp a Tesla Gen 3 adapter ($85 more), but it’s still a bargain. However, now I need to get a Tesla to J1772 adapter, and those are expensive.
I think that you answered your own question in the last two sentences.
 
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