[RFRF]

USA iD4 & similar VW ice SUV headlights led standard vs upgraded long light throw style. Anybody have experience with them and is the difference in amount and throw of light that great? Does long throw matter as much since in SUV you sit up higher?
(Euro Matrix HL not US legal)

 

[ted99]

Good question. The Pro has standard LED projection and FE has LED Matrix (not Euro matrix which is well known to be superior). I'm deciding between FE and Pro. I don't want 20" wheels or glass roof, but the LED matrix lights on the FE "could" overcome both of those objections. Does any one have direct experience with these two systems and can comment on them. I have two BMW PHEV's--one with standard LED projection and the other with US-spec LED matrix and the matrix really is a lot better for my old eyes. Is the difference the same for VW? I ask because lights seem to have a lot of variability between car manufacturers.

 

[ixlr08]

It is my understanding if you opt for the statement package on the Pro, then you get the same headlights as the FE.

 

[sprylo]

The Pro has standard LED projection and FE has LED Matrix (not Euro matrix which is well known to be superior).

I'm unaware of any "non-Euro" Matrix headlights on the ID.4. According to everything I've seen, in the US, the Pro S and 1st Edition get the same headlights, described in the Order Guide as "Premium LED Projector headlights." The Pro (without Statement) gets "LED Reflector headlights."

Other than the appearance items (white accents, play/pause pedals, etc.), the 1st Edition is identical to a Pro with Statement + Gradient plus a tow hitch and minus the illuminated front logo.

 

[ErickF]

The consensus has been that the US Premium LED headlights are the same hardware as the Euro Matrix, just not with all the functionality enabled. No images seem to indicate otherwise. Once authorized by the US government, these could become fully-functioned with an OTA update.

 

[ted99]

I'm unaware of any "non-Euro" Matrix headlights on the ID.4. According to everything I've seen, in the US, the Pro S and 1st Edition get the same headlights, described in the Order Guide as "Premium LED Projector headlights." The Pro (without Statement) gets "LED Reflector headlights."

Other than the appearance items (white accents, play/pause pedals, etc.), the 1st Edition is identical to a Pro with Statement + Gradient plus a tow hitch and minus the illuminated front logo.

According to the VWOA Order Guide:
Base Pro LED reflector headlight
Pro S, FE Premium LED Projector headlights

 

[sprylo]

According to the VWOA Order Guide:
Base Pro LED reflector headlight
Pro S, FE Premium LED Projector headlights

Isn't that exactly what I said?

 

[sprylo]

The consensus has been that the US Premium LED headlights are the same hardware as the Euro Matrix, just not with all the functionality enabled. No images seem to indicate otherwise. Once authorized by the US government, these could become fully-functioned with an OTA update.

That would definitely make a lot of sense, but this is Volkswagen we're talking about. Absent some confirmation from VWoA, I'd be wary of making any such assumptions.

 

[Huey52]

A couple of things I really appreciate about my Audi TT LED "projector" headlights is how distant-penetrating they are in a typically nice Euro bluish light, yet such a horizontally defined projection that they don't blind oncoming drivers. In fact pulling out of my garage they don't even shine into my neighbor's windows but rather a crisp line just below.
My wife's Benz GLA is similar. She prior had a Caddy ATS with bi-xenon and typically American yellowish light. The top priority in our GLA procurement was LED projection headlights.
So Yes, to me/us they make a great deal of difference!
btw: I don't care much for cornering lights that actually turn as you do, as I find it somewhat disorienting. I rather prefer what I have in the TT where the main beam stays dead ahead and is augmented by a corner light in the direction of turn.

 

[sprylo]

Anything would be an improvement over the headlights on my 2017 Golf. I drove a GTI loaner a couple years back that had the LED lighting package and it was like night and day (literally!). If my Pro S has lights that are at least that good, I'll be happy.

 

[ted99]

Isn't that exactly what I said?

No. You said the Pro, ProS and FE all have the same headlights--at least that's the way I read it.

 

[ted99]

Yes, the LED lights and their bluish color are head and shoulders better than the old halogen lights. But, one of my BMW 5 sedan's has LED projector lights and the other LED Matrix lights. Both have the same color, but the one with matrix lights has a much more defined "cut line" between the illuminated bottom and the upper part that is supposed to be blanked out to avoid glare in oncoming driver's eyes. It also reaches farther down the road in lo beam and has better side to side than the one with simple projector lights. It's no contest as to which is better.

My question is to VW owners that have had both LED projector lights on one of their cars and LED matrix lights on another--in your experience, are the VW matrix lights a lot better than the projector lights?

 

[michael]

VWs historically have had poor headlight performance, so I'm opting for the projector LEDs rather than the base reflector LEDs.

For example, base Arteon has "Poor" rated headlights by the IIHS, while the upgraded models score "Good".

Upgraded Arteon LED (Good):

Base Arteon LED (Poor):

 

[NBCGLX]

I feel like there's some misinformation being thrown around here. None of the U.S. ID.4's will have matrix headlights, nor do any other U.S. vehicles, as they're not currently legal in the U.S. The U.S. ID.4 will have either LED reflector headlights (Pro) or LED projector headlights (Pro S and FE), the latter of which also has VW's adaptive lighting system that integrates auto-leveling and swiveling lights. The actual matrix LED lights available in Europe and elsewhere are based on the LED projector lights found on the Pro S and FE. (It may be possible to "unlock" the matrix functionality on U.S. cars with VCDS coding if the headlight hardware is the same, not sure.)

 

[RocketVol]

I was going to install Euro headlights on my car a while back and did a lot of research on the differences between the two. Headlights seem to be an area of big divergence between the 2 regions for some reason. Beam patterns, drop off distances, and the abruptness of the drop off are all things that have different rules. For example, don't know if it has changed, but in Europe if you have high powered lights (xenon, etc) there has to be a beam leveler system in place so if the car is loaded in the trunk, the lights will not shine up in the faces of oncoming drivers. Unfortunately no such rule in NA. I took a European projector apart and the lens and plate that defined the pattern were both different than the NA ones. I hope with the matrix technology the different regional rules can just be programmed in without different hardware, and that the ID.4 actually has the matrix installed just reconfigured. And I REALLY hope we can turn all of that on with VCDS!

 

[NBCGLX]

I was going to install Euro headlights on my car a while back and did a lot of research on the differences between the two. Headlights seem to be an area of big divergence between the 2 regions for some reason. Beam patterns, drop off distances, and the abruptness of the drop off are all things that have different rules. For example, don't know if it has changed, but in Europe if you have high powered lights (xenon, etc) there has to be a beam leveler system in place so if the car is loaded in the trunk, the lights will not shine up in the faces of oncoming drivers. Unfortunately no such rule in NA. I took a European projector apart and the lens and plate that defined the pattern were both different than the NA ones. I hope with the matrix technology the different regional rules can just be programmed in without different hardware, and that the ID.4 actually has the matrix installed just reconfigured. And I REALLY hope we can turn all of that on with VCDS!

I've done Euro headlight upgrades on several of my vehicles for the very reasons you state! The FMVSS is so incredibly outdated, it might as well be governing candles for headlights. The auto-leveling thing really irks me in the U.S. I personally feel that any vehicle with LED's or HID's should be required to have at least auto-leveling. Put just a person or a couple bags in the back of a vehicle, and the headlights are aimed high enough to be blinding oncoming vehicles. Although I will say, there are vehicles in Europe with LED's/HID's that don't have auto-leveling. As I understand it, there's a wattage cap. For example, I believe there are 25W HID setups that don't require auto-leveling, but 35W (which is the typical HID setup) does.

 

[RocketVol]

I've done Euro headlight upgrades on several of my vehicles for the very reasons you state! The FMVSS is so incredibly outdated, it might as well be governing candles for headlights. The auto-leveling thing really irks me in the U.S. I personally feel that any vehicle with LED's or HID's should be required to have at least auto-leveling. Put just a person or a couple bags in the back of a vehicle, and the headlights are aimed high enough to be blinding oncoming vehicles. Although I will say, there are vehicles in Europe with LED's/HID's that don't have auto-leveling. As I understand it, there's a wattage cap. For example, I believe there are 25W HID setups that don't require auto-leveling, but 35W (which is the typical HID setup) does.

Agree totally on outdated rules! I was trying to go from xenon low/halogen high to xenon low & high and ordered a complete housing from Poland but it was damaged in transit. I backed off it for a bit but it is still on the long term plan to do.

I did do the conversion to the Euro tail lights. And here is another example of VW's strange decisions. The LEDs for rear fog lights are installed on every NAR Phaeton in the inboard position, but the controllers in the outboard tail light assembly are different between the Euro and NAR and no rear fogs for us. Change the outboards to the Euro ones and bingo the rear fogs work perfect. They even had to take the effort to make the button that is for the rear fog lights in Europe into a "valet" button in NA. With a different marking and part number and everything. Why couldn't it just be there from the start?

So I am mixed on if the matrix hardware will be there or not.

 

[NBCGLX]

Agree totally on outdated rules! I was trying to go from xenon low/halogen high to xenon low & high and ordered a complete housing from Poland but it was damaged in transit. I backed off it for a bit but it is still on the long term plan to do.

I did do the conversion to the Euro tail lights. And here is another example of VW's strange decisions. The LEDs for rear fog lights are installed on every NAR Phaeton in the inboard position, but the controllers in the outboard tail light assembly are different between the Euro and NAR and no rear fogs for us. Change the outboards to the Euro ones and bingo the rear fogs work perfect. They even had to take the effort to make the button that is for the rear fog lights in Europe into a "valet" button in NA. With a different marking and part number and everything. Why couldn't it just be there from the start?

So I am mixed on if the matrix hardware will be there or not.

I’ve Euro tail lights on several of my cars, too. It floors me how dumb the lighting regulations are here.

 

[Huey52]

Thanks for clarifying. I was pretty sure this was the case but am new to [21st century] VW so didn't want to misspeak.

As Porsche technology/mechanicals trickle down to Audi over time so does Audi to VW. I would therefore expect the FE & Pro S in the USA to have the same LED projector type headlights as I currently have on my 2016 Audi TTS.

I feel like there's some misinformation being thrown around here. None of the U.S. ID.4's will have matrix headlights, nor do any other U.S. vehicles, as they're not currently legal in the U.S. The U.S. ID.4 will have either LED reflector headlights (Pro) or LED projector headlights (Pro S and FE), the latter of which also has VW's adaptive lighting system that integrates auto-leveling and swiveling lights. The actual matrix LED lights available in Europe and elsewhere are based on the LED projector lights found on the Pro S and FE. (It may be possible to "unlock" the matrix functionality on U.S. cars with VCDS coding if the headlight hardware is the same, not sure.)

 

[ted99]

Another factor to consider with the matrix projector headlights. How many LED's are in the "matrix"? The more there are, the more adaptability there is in the light pattern. Two contrasts: Some US BMW matrix projector headlights have only 4 LED's per side while US-bound Audi and M-B can have as many as 80. It would be good if we could determine just how many LED's there are in the ID.4 matrix. The best Euro lights are laser headlights where a TI chip with thousands of micromirrors reflect the light from a single Laser source to give an incredible number of computer-controlled light patterns akin to Front Projector movie projectors. Obviously, the VW doesn't have laser lights, not does the DOT allow computer control of thousands of light points--yet. But even our antique system profits from more than a matrix of just two. The reflector light of the Base Pro is a single point light source whose pattern is set by reflector shape--hopefully with one LED/reflector for hi beam and one LED/reflector for lo beam, or a matrix of two per side.