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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
VW is not the only company with EV heat pump issues. My guess is that most folks would be better off without the additional complexity and modest improvement in range.....

 

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iD4 Pro Performance Max - Ordered July 2021 - Delivery December 2021 (hopefully)
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Tesla's system is far worse!

VWs problems are limited to overpromising the improvement in range and it not being great as an AC in extremely warm conditions.

Tesla's system doesn't work at all in very cold conditions and doesn't have resistive backup.
 

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I respectfully disagree.

We've suffered several weeks of the nastiest sub-freezing winter weather on the Canadian west coast than we've had for many a year. Although I was concerned when I first read about VW heat pump woes in Europe last year, I've owned my ID. 4 for over 3 weeks now and I am very, very happy with how its heat pump performs in the cold.

There are several ways to de-fog and dehumidify the interior of the ID 4 quickly in addition to the heat pump. All function quite well and are much faster than any ICE mobile. One thing I learned when I owned my first hybrid EV (Volt) is that heating and defogging is done differently compared to one running on dino juice. Among other things, the AC unit is often used for dehumidification.

While I know nothing about how a Telsa handles this, I do know that my ID 4 works just fine in the cold with a heat pump! :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Tesla's system is far worse!

VWs problems are limited to overpromising the improvement in range and it not being great as an AC in extremely warm conditions.

Tesla's system doesn't work at all in very cold conditions and doesn't have resistive backup.
Heat pumps, in general do not work very well at very low temperatures. If there is no resistive backup, Tesla has made some seriously bad design decisions.
 

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We've recently had very cold temperatures and my non-heat pump USA FE has been just fine.

I didn't think I would need the heat pump but wanted to await really cold temps to confirm same ... and now I have. ;)
 

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Heat pumps, in general do not work very well at very low temperatures. If there is no resistive backup, Tesla has made some seriously bad design decisions.
The VW system uses very high-pressure CO2 as the fluid, this works really well at extremely low temperatures.

I know the iD3 with heat pump also has backup resistive heaters. I guess the iD4 is similar.
 

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We've recently had very cold temperatures and my non-heat pump USA FE has been just fine.

I didn't think I would need the heat pump but wanted to await really cold temps to confirm same ... and now I have. ;)
I think that depends how you use the car.

If you pre-heat while plugged in at home then maintaining that cabin temp with the battery uses a trivial amount of power with a resistive heater. If you're expecting the battery to heat a car that has been sat in subzero temperatures overnight, that requires a huge amount of battery power.
 

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The VW system uses very high-pressure CO2 as the fluid, this works really well at extremely low temperatures.
But how well does it work in the summer when you need AC?

I thought the problem at extremely low temperatures was more of a fundamental one that is due to the laws of thermodynamics. You are trying to extract heat from very cold air, and you have to work like hell to make that happen.
 

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I agree in principle but mine sat outside all day in cloud covered, very cold and high wind sheer conditions and was still fine upon evening trek home. I had a good SOC however. Oh, and that particular day Car-Net [again] failed me in an excellent VZ cellular service area so no pre-conditioning.

Heat pumps are much more efficient now than they were in the 80's, but there's still no Mo' Nature free lunch at very low ambient temps. ;)
I think that depends how you use the car.

If you pre-heat while plugged in at home then maintaining that cabin temp with the battery uses a trivial amount of power with a resistive heater. If you're expecting the battery to heat a car that has been sat in subzero temperatures overnight, that requires a huge amount of battery power.
...
I thought the problem at extremely low temperatures was more of a fundamental one that is due to the laws of thermodynamics. You are trying to extract heat from very cold air, and you have to work like hell to make that happen.
 

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VW is not the only company with EV heat pump issues. My guess is that most folks would be better off without the additional complexity and modest improvement in range.....

The heat pump issues with VW only affected early adoptera - there are no issues with the current heat pumps, and I would never buy an EV without one.
 

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Waiting for euro spec Scale Silver ID.4 Pro Performance Business Max MY22
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But how well does it work in the summer when you need AC?

I thought the problem at extremely low temperatures was more of a fundamental one that is due to the laws of thermodynamics. You are trying to extract heat from very cold air, and you have to work like hell to make that happen.
As you brought this to another level with ’fundamental’ I use heatpump to warm my house. The pumps we are using have COP factor of 2 still at -20c.

(edit. Not even I understand what I meant with another level here. I just got excited 😂)
 

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No heat pump issues with ID.4 GTX till now...
You mean issues like the 5 people reporting heat pump problems in this thread 6 months ago?
 

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You mean issues like the 5 people reporting heat pump problems in this thread 6 months ago?
It is safe to assume that he was referring to his own GTX, mine and others with no issues - sure, maybe some have experienced issues with cooling being subpar, but as with other issues on here, the issues get more attention...besides, Scandinavia do not experience so hot conditions that we might even notice (the UK cases may have been from the southern part).

Nobody knows, but all we can do is go by what users are reporting - and that is a mixed bag of nuts and the issues have not, as far as I know, led to confirmation from dealers through replacements or repairs (enlighten me, if I am wrong).
 

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However, I would prefer additional settings in Software Version 3.0 to switch on/off the heat pump in order to be able to better assess its impact on the range
 

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However, I would prefer additional settings in Software Version 3.0 to switch on/off the heat pump in order to be able to better assess its impact on the range
Yes, that would be great - I cannot find it, but I believe VW reported this when they had to backtrack on their initial claims and compensate ID.4 owners, who opted for the heatpump.
 

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Heat pumps, in general do not work very well at very low temperatures. If there is no resistive backup, Tesla has made some seriously bad design decisions.
Not quite big mistake...what they did is using motor stator stalling to raise temperature going to the battery pack and then they use it as supplement for heat pump inefficiency . ...it is definitely more thirsty techniques but they have eliminated another hardware out ( resistive heater)....and if there is enough heat stored in battery...they use it for getting heat pump more efficient. ....depending on the driving scenarios it could be as efficient like running in warm weather ...but it will take heat out of the battery pack.
 

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Not quite big mistake...what they did is using motor stator stalling to raise temperature going to the battery pack and then they use it as supplement for heat pump inefficiency . ...it is definitely more thirsty techniques but they have eliminated another hardware out ( resistive heater)....and if there is enough heat stored in battery...they use it for getting heat pump more efficient. ....depending on the driving scenarios it could be as efficient like running in warm weather ...but it will take heat out of the battery pack.
Doesn’t work in practice in very cold weather though.
 
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