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Heat Pump vs. Heated Seats

9719 Views 39 Replies 20 Participants Last post by BlueDH, 10 mo ago

Huey52

Discussion Starter · Nov 7, 2020

A heat pump is a wondrous thing and it is a shame that it doesn't appear it will be offered, at least not initially. I think this and a number of other options were VW beancounter decision points so as to maintain an introductory-affordable "EV for the people." Also to reduce drain on the battery to help maintain marketing charge duration spec's.

However I also think that heated seats will be sufficient for my Winter driving. One of my literal hot buttons is heated seats and I always order a vehicle so equipped.

The analogy I guess would be radiant heating in your home vs. airhandler heating the entire airspace.

Just thinking out loud.

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ixlr08

· #2 · Nov 7, 2020

I have heated seats in 2 of my cars, at least here in Maine with the cold temps we have, they are not enough. The heated seats and heated steering wheel help a lot, but more is needed. I don't understand VW's take on not including the heat pump system in the car. The compressor, the most expensive part, is already there for the cooling and they just need the valves added to reverse the flow thru the system. If they are going for efficiency, a heat pump is much more efficient for heating than an electric heat strip. If Canada gets the heat pump, I would like to think they could at least add the heat pump to the AWD vehicles as that implies they will be used in cold climates.

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datwater

· #3 · Nov 7, 2020

ixlr08 - do you have a 1st on preorder or are you waiting for the AWD? Just curious - Mainer too here. - nm - saw an old post saying you got the AWD.

ixlr08

· #4 · Nov 7, 2020

Yup, went with the AWD, both for the all wheel drive in the snow aspect as well as dual engine 302 hp performance aspect.

I'm hoping it will be quicker than my BMW Z3, I know it won't be quicker than my 550. I'm retired and rarely travel more than 150 miles in a week so keeping it charged is not an issue. Might as well have fun while driving clean.

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datwater

· #5 · Nov 7, 2020

Nice ... I want the first because it's the first. But I also kinda wanna wait for the AWD. Still sitting on my reservation for now.

MLopez

· #6 · Nov 7, 2020

The heated seats in my e-golf are enough for me here in Southern California, and the ID4 will even have a heated steering wheel so I'm good!

MCheiron

· #7 · Nov 8, 2020

MBrandenburg said:
The heated seats in my e-golf are enough for me here in Southern California, and the ID4 will even have a heated steering wheel so I'm good!

do you even get to freezing in Southern California?

When we get a polar vortex several times a winter, heated seats and stirring wheel especially when sitting on the back row will not do much.

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MLopez

· #8 · Nov 8, 2020

MCheiron said:
do you even get to freezing in Southern California?

When we get a polar vortex several times a winter, heated seats and stirring wheel especially when sitting on the back row will not do much.

It can get into the 30s in the middle of the night in the winter, but never for long!

Huey52

Discussion Starter · #9 · Nov 8, 2020

Regarding AWD - I've had Audi's for the past decade (Quattro AWD innate). There certainly is a feeling of confidence knowing it's there and it does aid in performance in any clime. However I drove a Mazda 6 FWD as a 'Winter-beater' when I was working on two of my kids homes ('reclaimed' my daughter's vehicle which I had maintained to over 150k miles, before moving it along to another generation) and I have to say I had no issues at all; very good tires making a lot of the difference. Of course as a 'beater' I had a different mindset pertaining anything going wrong, but it never did. And I also now remind myself that all we and most others had when I was first driving was RWD.
If I were in Maine ("nine months of Winter followed by three months of damn poor sledding") I too would likely await AWD, but as now in coastal MA and pick-my-day retiree driving RWD will be fine for me.
Also since I'm now semi-urban there aren't many places I could enjoy dual motor performance anyway.
Now back to the heat pump channel....

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Mark Magiera

· #10 · Nov 8, 2020 (Edited)

Heated seat over heated cabin via a heat pump? Tell my kids in the back seat that they can cover with a blanket is a cop out... The majority of people who claim to wear gloves & a coat (& only pre-heat is enough before you leave) are hypocrites. Anyone who says that & lives in an area that see's a night go down to -30°F & will see an entire week where the HIGH is -5°F is a liar. 3 years ago, the temperature dropped on Dec 27th below 32°F in Montpelier & did not reemerge ABOVE that temperature until March 30th. A heat pump not as standard or even upgradable offering WILL be a deal breaker & keep most in their ICE until one is offered.

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terasain

· #11 · Nov 9, 2020

I have a simple doubt - does not having an heat pump mean no heat in this car or its just that the heat will be from the battery and thus reduce the range?

eldecarlo

· #12 · Nov 9, 2020

terasain said:
I have a simple doubt - does not having an heat pump mean no heat in this car or its just that the heat will be from the battery and thus reduce the range?

No, of course you will have heat. Tesla just started putting heat pumps in vehicles. You will just use more battery for your range. Possibly up to 30%, according to most people.

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terasain

· #13 · Nov 9, 2020

Thanks for the response. I just did some googling and found out how it works. I having trouble wrapping my head around how heat pumps can be effective in cold climates when the outside air is cold. But will keep digging on

eldecarlo

· #14 · Nov 9, 2020

terasain said:
Thanks for the response. I just did some googling and found out how it works. I having trouble wrapping my head around how heat pumps can be effective in cold climates when the outside air is cold. But will keep digging on

No problem! I believe the refrigerant is better now? Maybe down to 0 or -5 degrees. The new Ford Mach E also does not have a heat pump and they expect that to be a big seller. I think right now we are in a transitional phase regarding heat pumps. Just because they can make them work at lower temps. I imagine all EV’s will come with them eventually.

Huey52

Discussion Starter · #15 · Nov 9, 2020 (Edited)

My first heat pump experience in an upstate NY apartment, circa 1985, was abysmal as it was just never able to draw enough heat from very cold ambient Winter air (even then there was electric baseboard to augment). But over time they have improved remarkably to the point where we're having this discussion on their use in EV's. Pulling latent heat from sub-zero degree air is of course still a challenge (my Minneapolis visits come readily to mind) and in that case we may be better served with the radiant electric.

I didn't intend to mislead anyone by this thread's simple title. As eldecarlo cites there will of course be heat in the vehicle but it will consume battery power, along with most other onboard systems. A heat pump would also consume some power but in theory is more efficient than the electric strip radiant heating. My point was more that heated seats plus this radiant method will be fine for my use.

terasain said:
Thanks for the response. I just did some googling and found out how it works. I having trouble wrapping my head around how heat pumps can be effective in cold climates when the outside air is cold. But will keep digging on

MLopez

· #16 · Nov 10, 2020

terasain said:
I have a simple doubt - does not having an heat pump mean no heat in this car or its just that the heat will be from the battery and thus reduce the range?

If it's anything like the e-golf heat, it will be next to nothing. That's why I use the seat heaters. Air does come out, but it's not hot like you are accustomed to in an ICE vehicle. It's only mildly warm.

Huey52

Discussion Starter · #17 · Nov 10, 2020

Let's keep in mind that the ID.4 is spec'd to have "electric strip" heating, so I presume radiant in the way home electric baseboard operates?

MBrandenburg said:
If it's anything like the e-golf heat, it will be next to nothing. That's why I use the seat heaters. Air does come out, but it's not hot like you are accustomed to in an ICE vehicle. It's only mildly warm.

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ixlr08

· #18 · Nov 10, 2020

Chances the electric strip heating is the same as what is in my TDI Jetta to help heat up the car before the engine is putting out any heat. It is a 'strip' heater somewhere in the ventilation duct work that heats up the air before it blows out on you or the windshield. It works fairly well but like others have said, it is not hot and uses a fair amount of power.

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Mark Magiera

· #19 · Nov 10, 2020

MBrandenburg said:
If it's anything like the e-golf heat, it will be next to nothing. That's why I use the seat heaters. Air does come out, but it's not hot like you are accustomed to in an ICE vehicle. It's only mildly warm.

And if you are in Eco or Eco+, the air being blown is 🥶❄☃⛄ on an e-Golf.

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VWtalk

· #20 · Dec 7, 2020 (Edited)

I don't understand if VW can put the heat pump system in Canadian and EU models why not here in the US? For the sake of cutting cost in US models for simple heat pump where practically they will sell lot of these cars and put them on the board for EV market share, it doesn't make sense not to include it. If cost is the real issue then they should have waited releasing the vehicle until it is viable manufacturing it in the US, rather than make them in Germany a slim down version and offset the cost by taking out some improvements/features! Lot of the states in the US have really cold winter and if guys are switching for the 1st time to EV, VW should atelast give them efficiency and comfort for the winter months! I really liked the VW ID4 and felt this is it for me to switch, I looked at Pro S AWD option but now I am in doubt. If VW at least includes heat pump in ID4 US (don't care about head up display which is also not available in the US versions!), that will certainly make me choose this car. Damn it VW, you almost had me. Now I feel like waiting for Nissan Ariya..
Also, if heat pump is really not a big deal then why those Canadian and EU versions of ID4 has it? It has to be a difference making in heating and efficiency.

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