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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
After waiting since I put in my reservation on 23-Sept-20 for my ID.4 Pro/S AWD, after my test drive today, 9-Oct-21, I have canceled my reservation and declined the car.


First the test drive- This is an awesome car!!! But it does have some issues. I have heard the AWD ID.4 referred to as the GTI of the EV world, I think that sums it up well. The car is very planted and stable, handles well especially considering how much it weights. The turning radius is a little larger than the 1st edition I drove, but not enough to matter in real world situations. Parking lot maneuvers were a breeze. I found the steering a bit too sensitive, the tiniest movement of the steering wheel would make a noticeable change in direction. I needed to pay strict attention to my driving at all times. It did not make for relaxing driving. I thought about it after I got home and realized that I never even thought to check to see what mode the car was in. Was it sport, comfort, eco, I have no idea. Pulling out of the dealer lot it was immediately obvious the car had more solid, responsive, acceleration than the 1st edition. Driving around town was pleasant, enjoyable, like the 1st edition. I went to get on the highway and as I was coming down the entrance ramp the car nose was just slightly in front of an 18 wheeler, who was not giving me an inch. I pressed the GO pedal and in no time I was well in front of the truck. :) Highway merging with the AWD version is absolutely a non issue, it just goes. I set the cruise control for 70, activated the LKA and let it run. Glanced at the speedo and noticed I was doing 75??? Rechecked the cruise setting and it was now set to 75?? Reset it to 70 and continued down the road. Car kept asking me to take over the steering. It took a bit to figure out how much holding of the wheel I had to do to keep the system happy. I let the LKA do its thing for a while, I didn’t like the way it kept wandering the car down the lane. A touch to the right, a touch to the left, repeat on down the road. After about 2-3 miles of that I couldn’t take it any more and just grabbed the wheel and steered the car myself. Then I found that the LKA was fighting me and it felt like I was drafting an 18 wheeler 5 feet behind the trailer. Like I was being buffeted all over the place. I turned off the LKA, much nicer and just ran with the cruise set to 70 for a while, no LKA. NIce. I turned off the cruise and just drove the car with minimum assistance. The car felt nice and stable, no clue how fast I was going, cars were passing me, I was passing nobody, I was just enjoying the ride and the scenery. Then I happened to glance at the speedo… I was doing 80!!! I had no idea/clue I was going that fast. This car would easily get me in trouble. Somewhere in there I also figured out why my speed settings kept changing. I didn’t realize that the haptic buttons on the steering wheel were also sliders and I was apparently sliding my fingers over the controls changing the settings without realizing it. Some where during the test drive my back started to hurt. I spent a good deal of time sorting out the seat trying to get comfortable. Never really succeeded, tried out the seat massage to see if that would help. I didn’t like the seat massage and it didn’t help with my back pain. I think when I started out the lumbar support was at max and that is what caused me the pain that I never recovered from, my back was still sore the following morning. I felt that B mode deceleration/regeneration was greater in the AWD than it was in the 1st edition. The AWD version is definitely noisier/louder than the 1st edition I drove. According to the dB meter app on my phone, radio off, windows closed, same road same speed. The 1st edition averaged 74.8dB, AWD 77.8dB, my TDI Jetta 84.2dB. Indicating my Jetta is twice as loud as the 1st edition. There might maybe be more motor noise with the AWD vs the 1st edition, but 95% of the difference is the noisier tires on the AWD. I didn’t remember to take note of what tires were on the AWD. Pulling away from a stop, the acceleration was very nice. The salesman suggested I get going about 10 mph and then punch it and see what happened. I was caught off guard and it literally snapped my head back. I was not expecting that.


Why I rejected the car- There were several reasons. I didn’t like the lies the salesman told me. Didn’t like the trade-in the dealership gave me. Carvana offered me $14,900 for my Jetta, using the link from the VW Portal to KBB, KBB retail trade-in value was $12,800 and dealer offered me $10,500. I found the LKA, ‘self driving’ mode more annoying than helpful. I am moving from Maine to rural Virginia and won’t need the AWD or the performance that comes with it. The key in my decision was that I was not going to spend $50K for a vehicle that might cause me back pain. I think once I get moved and settled in, I will look again at a RWD Pro/S or maybe a Buzz if it ever comes out.
 

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It sounds to me like you just needed a bit more time with the car, to get the seat settings optimized and get used to how the car handles. I think the trade-in from a car dealer is never as good as Carvana or carmax so why not simply go with them? I will be selling my old car when my ID4 arrives but I suspect Carvana or Carmax will give me a better offer than VW.
 

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Your story makes sense -- you probably did the right thing, especially as moving is such a daunting task. Except, depending on the model year of your Jetta, the ID.4 might be a somewhat safer car. For one thing, weight is on its side, plus it has autonomous emergency braking with pedestrian braking which your Jetta may or may not have. On the other hand the Jetta is smaller and a passenger car so it may be more maneuverable. Yeah, I never do dealer trades anymore. CarMax and Carvana offer better prices. My Pro doesn't have lumbar or massaging seat back, but I find the seats to be comfortable even though I have back/neck problems and osteoporosis. And I typically drive 130 miles per day. But each human's back is different.... Right, I don't think lane assist is ready for prime time. First thing I do on start up is to turn it off. It's an annoying nanny to say the least. Right again, I found the steering to be a little different at first, but I've gotten used to it and probably like it at this point. I've driven my Pro 11K with no issues - fingers crossed on that.... Count it as the best car I've ever owned.
 

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Hey if you don't NEED a car right now, why drop 50k on something you have doubts about? I've also been waiting a year, but purchased a 15 year old Camry after my car wasn't delivered by September. I've put some money into the Camry, and hey, it's pretty nice! Do I really want a car payment? I'm going into my test drive with an open mind.

On the other hand, if you needed a car soon, I would have probably asked the dealer to come back in a day or two for another extended test drive with lumbar support set to your liking from the beginning before declining delivery. And thankfully we have VCDS for a couple hundred bucks to keep LKA off.
 

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It sounds to me like you just needed a bit more time with the car, to get the seat settings optimized and get used to how the car handles. I think the trade-in from a car dealer is never as good as Carvana or carmax so why not simply go with them? I will be selling my old car when my ID4 arrives but I suspect Carvana or Carmax will give me a better offer than VW.
Because you don't have to pay tax on the entire price of the new car but only on the difference between the price of the trade-in and the price of the new car - if you trade your old car as part of the same transaction. Of course, if the difference in the price of the used car between Carvana and the VW dealer is $4,000, then you are better off selling your old car to Carvana and paying sales tax for the entire price of the ID.4.
 

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After waiting since I put in my reservation on 23-Sept-20 for my ID.4 Pro/S AWD, after my test drive today, 9-Oct-21, I have canceled my reservation and declined the car.


First the test drive- This is an awesome car!!! But it does have some issues. I have heard the AWD ID.4 referred to as the GTI of the EV world, I think that sums it up well. The car is very planted and stable, handles well especially considering how much it weights. The turning radius is a little larger than the 1st edition I drove, but not enough to matter in real world situations. Parking lot maneuvers were a breeze. I found the steering a bit too sensitive, the tiniest movement of the steering wheel would make a noticeable change in direction. I needed to pay strict attention to my driving at all times. It did not make for relaxing driving. I thought about it after I got home and realized that I never even thought to check to see what mode the car was in. Was it sport, comfort, eco, I have no idea. Pulling out of the dealer lot it was immediately obvious the car had more solid, responsive, acceleration than the 1st edition. Driving around town was pleasant, enjoyable, like the 1st edition. I went to get on the highway and as I was coming down the entrance ramp the car nose was just slightly in front of an 18 wheeler, who was not giving me an inch. I pressed the GO pedal and in no time I was well in front of the truck. :) Highway merging with the AWD version is absolutely a non issue, it just goes. I set the cruise control for 70, activated the LKA and let it run. Glanced at the speedo and noticed I was doing 75??? Rechecked the cruise setting and it was now set to 75?? Reset it to 70 and continued down the road. Car kept asking me to take over the steering. It took a bit to figure out how much holding of the wheel I had to do to keep the system happy. I let the LKA do its thing for a while, I didn’t like the way it kept wandering the car down the lane. A touch to the right, a touch to the left, repeat on down the road. After about 2-3 miles of that I couldn’t take it any more and just grabbed the wheel and steered the car myself. Then I found that the LKA was fighting me and it felt like I was drafting an 18 wheeler 5 feet behind the trailer. Like I was being buffeted all over the place. I turned off the LKA, much nicer and just ran with the cruise set to 70 for a while, no LKA. NIce. I turned off the cruise and just drove the car with minimum assistance. The car felt nice and stable, no clue how fast I was going, cars were passing me, I was passing nobody, I was just enjoying the ride and the scenery. Then I happened to glance at the speedo… I was doing 80!!! I had no idea/clue I was going that fast. This car would easily get me in trouble. Somewhere in there I also figured out why my speed settings kept changing. I didn’t realize that the haptic buttons on the steering wheel were also sliders and I was apparently sliding my fingers over the controls changing the settings without realizing it. Some where during the test drive my back started to hurt. I spent a good deal of time sorting out the seat trying to get comfortable. Never really succeeded, tried out the seat massage to see if that would help. I didn’t like the seat massage and it didn’t help with my back pain. I think when I started out the lumbar support was at max and that is what caused me the pain that I never recovered from, my back was still sore the following morning. I felt that B mode deceleration/regeneration was greater in the AWD than it was in the 1st edition. The AWD version is definitely noisier/louder than the 1st edition I drove. According to the dB meter app on my phone, radio off, windows closed, same road same speed. The 1st edition averaged 74.8dB, AWD 77.8dB, my TDI Jetta 84.2dB. Indicating my Jetta is twice as loud as the 1st edition. There might maybe be more motor noise with the AWD vs the 1st edition, but 95% of the difference is the noisier tires on the AWD. I didn’t remember to take note of what tires were on the AWD. Pulling away from a stop, the acceleration was very nice. The salesman suggested I get going about 10 mph and then punch it and see what happened. I was caught off guard and it literally snapped my head back. I was not expecting that.


Why I rejected the car- There were several reasons. I didn’t like the lies the salesman told me. Didn’t like the trade-in the dealership gave me. Carvana offered me $14,900 for my Jetta, using the link from the VW Portal to KBB, KBB retail trade-in value was $12,800 and dealer offered me $10,500. I found the LKA, ‘self driving’ mode more annoying than helpful. I am moving from Maine to rural Virginia and won’t need the AWD or the performance that comes with it. The key in my decision was that I was not going to spend $50K for a vehicle that might cause me back pain. I think once I get moved and settled in, I will look again at a RWD Pro/S or maybe a Buzz if it ever comes out.
Buzz will not be far from Pickup EV efficiency and it will cost you a lot of energy to charge home.....unless necessary ( have big family or use it for business) is not something I would go for it.... Any EV that burns a lot energy to move will move your Electric monthly average easily over 1200+ Kwh a month that will in some states move you to more expensive bracket.
Only benefit of owning not very efficient EV is if you have solar-powered house and it is mostly if not all free charging when charged at home.
And winter driving and heating big size cabin will hurt even more efficiency.
 

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I found the LKA, ‘self driving’ mode more annoying than helpful.
When you expect a system to perform better than it was designed or advertised for, it's no surprise you're going to be let down.

The system as a whole is called Travel Assist. Not Travel Self Drive. It's a Level 2 system. "You are driving. You must constantly supervise."
Font Electric blue Parallel Number Screenshot
 

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I think he was complaining that the LKA constantly moves the car laterally trying to center it perfectly in the lane. That would be very annoying to constantly experience lateral pull to the left or right as you drive at the highway speeds.

A little leeway should be allowed so that the car doesn’t have to constantly shift laterally. I would find this very annoying as well.

When you expect a system to perform better than it was designed or advertised for, it's no surprise you're going to be let down.

The system as a whole is called Travel Assist. Not Travel Self Drive. It's a Level 2 system. "You are driving. You must constantly supervise."
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I think he was complaining that the LKA constantly moves the car laterally trying to center it perfectly in the lane. That would be very annoying to constantly experience lateral pull to the left or right as you drive at the highway speeds.

A little leeway should be allowed so that the car doesn’t have to constantly shift laterally. I would find this very annoying as well.
Was he using Travel Assist or Lane Keeping Assist? The behavior he describes is identical to that of my MK7 GTI. LKA helps you stay within the lane, but not centered, so it goes back and forth. It fights you when you stray over the lane marking unless you use the turn signal. Travel Assist is much smoother and keeps you centered in the lane.

With all due respect to OP, if he didn’t know what driving mode or seat adjustment he was in, I question whether he realized he may not have been using Travel Assist.
 

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I've had my RWD for three months now and taken two road trips. I took me a while to get used to Travel Assist (lane keeping) but once I got comfortable, it was a nice assist for the hours of highway driving. As for the seats, it took me a couple of days to get my driver's seat adjusted to my liking, but once there, I find the seats very comfortable -- right there with the Volvo I used to own. However, the thing I like best about the car is the way it drives day-to-day. It is just an excellent balance of comfort and sportiness. It is consistently one of the most fun cars to drive I've owned. The only negative for me is the road trip charging network here in the midwest. It has a lot of improvement that is still needed. But, 90% of my annual driving is around town, which I use the L2 charger in my garage for every 4 to 5 days or so, and the car is excellent for that.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
What ever it was, it was trying to keep me centered in the lane I was in. It kept going a little to the right, a little to the left bouncing around the center of the lane I was in. The constant slight back and forth quickly drove me nuts and I turned it off.
 
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Because you don't have to pay tax on the entire price of the new car but only on the difference between the price of the trade-in and the price of the new car - if you trade your old car as part of the same transaction. Of course, if the difference in the price of the used car between Carvana and the VW dealer is $4,000, then you are better off selling your old car to Carvana and paying sales tax for the entire price of the ID.4.
That depends on the state. In many states you don't have to sell your old car as part of your new car purchase, it just has to be within a week or two of your new car purchase.
 

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Wow, it's a shame that it didn't work out, but you definitely made the right decision for you. The seat definitely required some adjustment and I felt some discomfort. It took a couple of drives for me to reach a setting that was right for me. I haven't played with travel assist/lane assist yet, although I liked the similar features on my Tiguan. I feel the potholes a little more and the steering is sensitive, similar to our Q5. If I were not used to that, it would probably be troublesome. Overall, the car is great, it just takes a while to become accustomed to a few things.

Maybe you can get a deal on an RWD when you get to VA or grab a Chattanooga built ID.4 in a year!
 

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Because you don't have to pay tax on the entire price of the new car but only on the difference between the price of the trade-in and the price of the new car - if you trade your old car as part of the same transaction. Of course, if the difference in the price of the used car between Carvana and the VW dealer is $4,000, then you are better off selling your old car to Carvana and paying sales tax for the entire price of the ID.4.
Wait a minute, does the sales tax thing depend on the state you live in? Like I live in Ca and the sales tax is added in at the top of the contract, long before the downpayment trade-in is subtracted off at the bottom. Also, the sales tax itself is tax deductible at income tax time. So if you pay more sales tax it's not all to the bad. I went to an H&R Block once and they were only going to give me the table amount sales tax deduction. Then I said that I usually have a CPA do my returns, and the sales tax on large purchases, like cars, is also tax deductible (in addition to table amount). She double checked and was surprised to see that I was right. (Maybe tax laws have changed since then - not sure.)
 

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That depends on the state. In many states you don't have to sell your old car as part of your new car purchase, it just has to be within a week or two of your new car purchase.
Didn’t know that. In my state - Georgia- it has to be done in the same transaction. Even if that’s the same dealer, the only way you can reduce your tax is if your trade-in is on the same contract as your new car purchase, which is terrible.
 

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Wait a minute, does the sales tax thing depend on the state you live in? Like I live in Ca and the sales tax is added in at the top of the contract, long before the downpayment trade-in is subtracted off at the bottom. Also, the sales tax itself is tax deductible at income tax time. So if you pay more sales tax it's not all to the bad. I went to an H&R Block once and they were only going to give me the table amount sales tax deduction. Then I said that I usually have a CPA do my returns, and the sales tax on large purchases, like cars, is also tax deductible (in addition to table amount). She double checked and was surprised to see that I was right. (Maybe tax laws have changed since then - not sure.)
I don’t know about California, you guys are weird anyway 😄 but in all the states that I’ve lived the sales tax is not deductible. That’s why it’s called double-taxation. You pay your income tax and whatever is left over is yours to spend, but you pay more tax on everything you buy. The only sales tax that is deductible from the adjusted gross income is the tax on the items that are deductible. Like if I buy a computer for my business and expense it out as a business expense, then the entire amount (including sales tax) can be deducted from my income to lower my adjusted gross income that I would pay income tax on.

In my state, I have to pay 7% sales tax on a vehicle purchase, and none of that is tax deductible unless I buy the vehicle for my business, but I will have to amortize it over the course of several years because you can’t deduct the entire value of a car in one year. I think the limit for that is an item that costs less than $2,500, which can be deducted in its entirety.

But for private car purchases, there is no tax deduction for the sales tax paid on the car purchase. Of course, the ID.4 has a $7,500 federal income tax credit, so if you owe more than $7,500 in federal tax, you can reduce the federal income tax by $7,500, which is more than the 7% sales tax on the $50,000 price of the AWD ID.4.
 

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Your trade-in in NY will offset the price of the new car. For instance, the new car is 50k, trade in is 25k. you pay sales tax on 25k, not 50k
 

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After waiting since I put in my reservation on 23-Sept-20 for my ID.4 Pro/S AWD, after my test drive today, 9-Oct-21, I have canceled my reservation and declined the car.


First the test drive- This is an awesome car!!! But it does have some issues. I have heard the AWD ID.4 referred to as the GTI of the EV world, I think that sums it up well. The car is very planted and stable, handles well especially considering how much it weights. The turning radius is a little larger than the 1st edition I drove, but not enough to matter in real world situations. Parking lot maneuvers were a breeze. I found the steering a bit too sensitive, the tiniest movement of the steering wheel would make a noticeable change in direction. I needed to pay strict attention to my driving at all times. It did not make for relaxing driving. I thought about it after I got home and realized that I never even thought to check to see what mode the car was in. Was it sport, comfort, eco, I have no idea. Pulling out of the dealer lot it was immediately obvious the car had more solid, responsive, acceleration than the 1st edition. Driving around town was pleasant, enjoyable, like the 1st edition. I went to get on the highway and as I was coming down the entrance ramp the car nose was just slightly in front of an 18 wheeler, who was not giving me an inch. I pressed the GO pedal and in no time I was well in front of the truck. :) Highway merging with the AWD version is absolutely a non issue, it just goes. I set the cruise control for 70, activated the LKA and let it run. Glanced at the speedo and noticed I was doing 75??? Rechecked the cruise setting and it was now set to 75?? Reset it to 70 and continued down the road. Car kept asking me to take over the steering. It took a bit to figure out how much holding of the wheel I had to do to keep the system happy. I let the LKA do its thing for a while, I didn’t like the way it kept wandering the car down the lane. A touch to the right, a touch to the left, repeat on down the road. After about 2-3 miles of that I couldn’t take it any more and just grabbed the wheel and steered the car myself. Then I found that the LKA was fighting me and it felt like I was drafting an 18 wheeler 5 feet behind the trailer. Like I was being buffeted all over the place. I turned off the LKA, much nicer and just ran with the cruise set to 70 for a while, no LKA. NIce. I turned off the cruise and just drove the car with minimum assistance. The car felt nice and stable, no clue how fast I was going, cars were passing me, I was passing nobody, I was just enjoying the ride and the scenery. Then I happened to glance at the speedo… I was doing 80!!! I had no idea/clue I was going that fast. This car would easily get me in trouble. Somewhere in there I also figured out why my speed settings kept changing. I didn’t realize that the haptic buttons on the steering wheel were also sliders and I was apparently sliding my fingers over the controls changing the settings without realizing it. Some where during the test drive my back started to hurt. I spent a good deal of time sorting out the seat trying to get comfortable. Never really succeeded, tried out the seat massage to see if that would help. I didn’t like the seat massage and it didn’t help with my back pain. I think when I started out the lumbar support was at max and that is what caused me the pain that I never recovered from, my back was still sore the following morning. I felt that B mode deceleration/regeneration was greater in the AWD than it was in the 1st edition. The AWD version is definitely noisier/louder than the 1st edition I drove. According to the dB meter app on my phone, radio off, windows closed, same road same speed. The 1st edition averaged 74.8dB, AWD 77.8dB, my TDI Jetta 84.2dB. Indicating my Jetta is twice as loud as the 1st edition. There might maybe be more motor noise with the AWD vs the 1st edition, but 95% of the difference is the noisier tires on the AWD. I didn’t remember to take note of what tires were on the AWD. Pulling away from a stop, the acceleration was very nice. The salesman suggested I get going about 10 mph and then punch it and see what happened. I was caught off guard and it literally snapped my head back. I was not expecting that.


Why I rejected the car- There were several reasons. I didn’t like the lies the salesman told me. Didn’t like the trade-in the dealership gave me. Carvana offered me $14,900 for my Jetta, using the link from the VW Portal to KBB, KBB retail trade-in value was $12,800 and dealer offered me $10,500. I found the LKA, ‘self driving’ mode more annoying than helpful. I am moving from Maine to rural Virginia and won’t need the AWD or the performance that comes with it. The key in my decision was that I was not going to spend $50K for a vehicle that might cause me back pain. I think once I get moved and settled in, I will look again at a RWD Pro/S or maybe a Buzz if it ever comes out.
Sorry to hear! One thing that may have confused is the LKA on by default is not self steering… you need to push the lower Travel Assist button to have it steer for you. I did it last week on the NJ Turnpike for 150 miles, and just had to lay my hand on the haptic wheel, never needed to turn the wheel at all.
 

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Wait a minute, does the sales tax thing depend on the state you live in? Like I live in Ca and the sales tax is added in at the top of the contract, long before the downpayment trade-in is subtracted off at the bottom. Also, the sales tax itself is tax deductible at income tax time. So if you pay more sales tax it's not all to the bad. I went to an H&R Block once and they were only going to give me the table amount sales tax deduction. Then I said that I usually have a CPA do my returns, and the sales tax on large purchases, like cars, is also tax deductible (in addition to table amount). She double checked and was surprised to see that I was right. (Maybe tax laws have changed since then - not sure.)
From what I just found, in California you always pay sales tax on the full price of the car regardless of any trade in, incentive or rebate. (I'm in CA too).
 
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