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Well, I think that quote says it all [In Europe "... it appeals to the typical Golf buyer."]

It's of course considerably smaller than the Tesla 3. And far less expensive in Europe.

I don't think "better" is proven, as not a fair/comparable comparison to begin with, but again simply that the ID.3 is more popular for these and many other obvious reasons.
 

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Well, my wife has an ID.3 and I have a Model 3. They are chalk and cheese IMHO:

ID.3 - Pros:

- Better basic automotive engineering and build quality. You can see this in terms of door fit, panel gaps, paint quality, cabin refinement, ride, delivery defects (ID.3 = 0, Tesla = 5), weld details on seams and edges of doors, weather protection in wheel arches and underneath, ... The list goes on and it's quite a long list. If I had to bet which car will survive the longest (excluding battery issues), I'd put my money on the ID.3.

- Cheaper. We got our ID.3 for just over £30k (family spec with a few options). Nearest Tesla would be a Model 3 SR+ at about £43k. That's a big difference.

- Size/Practicality. The hatchback form factor is better IMHO, and the interior use of space on the ID.3 is very good, despite it being a smaller car overall.

- Driving. The car drives very well. It's a nice place to be. ACC works well and makes highway driving easy.


ID.3 - Cons:

- Interior design features. Some interior design features are pretty poor - e.g. masses of cheap-feeling black shiny plastic, lack of soft-touch materials on dash top and door cards, nasty touch/tactile buttons on the steering wheel and central screen.

- Poor infotainment system. The features are fine, but the UI is woeful. It's still a bit buggy too. And no speakers in the rear doors on a car costing £30k+ - what were VW thinking of? OTOH, it's got CarPlay/Android Auto, which is very nice.

- Software quality. Well, it's getting better, but there are still some nasty bugs in there. Then there are missing features still (OTA updates being a big one). Worst aspect though is the mobile app which is both very feature-light, and also very unreliable in terms of it successfully performing actions on the car. The latter problem might be the back-end servers, the car's software, or the link to the car - but whatever it is it makes for a frustrating user experience.


Tesla Model 3 - Pros:

- Software/tech and infotainment. It has its glitches, but without doubt the tech and infotainment is superb - both in terms of sound quality and features (Spotify, Netflix etc). It's a standout feature of the car.

- Performance. I have the LR AWD. It's not the Performance variant, but it's still brutally fast. Amazing.

- Maturity as an EV. It shows that Tesla have been doing this for a little while now. Most things just work and they work well. The battery, BMS, and drivetrain are great. The vehicle is also very efficient. It's a very good EV in that sense. Software is good too - it's mostly stable and OTA updates come about every 2-3 weeks. An excellent delivery model for software changes IMHO.

- Superchargers. I wouldn't want to rely on the ID.3 for all our long-distance driving because the rapid charge network (in the UK) is still fragmented, unreliable, and incomplete. Tesla are really miles ahead of all the other EV brands in this respect. It'll improve for the other brands, but I think we're still 2-3 years away from having as good a charge infrastructure for long-distance driving as the Tesla.


Tesla Model 3 - Cons:

- Cabin refinement. It's a noisy car, esp at its price point. Main problem is road noise, but there is a lot of wind noise too unless you track down all the places where leakage can occur.

- Autopilot/cruise control. Despite Tesla being known for its fancy "self-driving" (which is massively over-hyped), the basic cruise control is almost unusable due to so-called "phantom braking" - basically where the car brakes (sometimes severely) for no apparent reason. It can be quite alarming at times.

- Build quality. It's a trope now, but it's also true - Tesla build quality isn't good. Panel gaps are variable, paint quality is just about good enough but no more, and there are several weak design aspects (e.g. underfloor protection panels falling off, poor weather protection on the underside of the car and around the arches, misted up lights, water ingress into boot area).

- Service Model and Customer Care. Tesla are trying to be different in having no regular dealers and handling service via regional Service Centres (SC). However, Tesla have got well behind the curve on effectively dealing with customer issues (of which there are too many given build quality issues) and the result is that as a customer you too often feel completely powerless to get anything done. And when you can get things scheduled, the SC model can result in long waiting times and overly-long trips to reach the nearest one. Despite their own set of issues, regular brands with their dealer network do offer a better customer service model. It'll be interesting whether the long-term costs of this can be sustained - maybe the Tesla model is the future?

It's a pity really that we can't have some hybrid car - something with the EV pedigree, software, and performance of the Tesla, but with the automotive engineering sorted by VW, and built in a VW factory. That would be the ideal!
 

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Went for a physical exam this morning and my Doctor, who's a fellow car enthusiast, lamented the poor fit & finish of his Tesla 3. He's now awaiting a BMW i3 but I may have also gotten him interested in the ID.4. We both think VW will do a better job then Tesla in this regard.
 

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Went for a physical exam this morning and my Doctor, who's a fellow car enthusiast, lamented the poor fit & finish of his Tesla 3. He's now awaiting a BMW i3 but I may have also gotten him interested in the ID.4. We both think VW will do a better job then Tesla in this regard.
I watched a US-based review of the ID.4. Its pricing looks good - but it'll have to be given it's up against the Model Y and the Form Mach-E. I just hope they sort out the bugs and the infotainment usability since I can see a disaster looming if they don't.
 

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I watched a US-based review of the ID.4. Its pricing looks good - but it'll have to be given it's up against the Model Y and the Form Mach-E. I just hope they sort out the bugs and the infotainment usability since I can see a disaster looming if they don't.
Remember VW is aiming the ID.4 at the RAV4 and CRV crowd, not the Tesla crowd.
 
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Well, my wife has an ID.3 and I have a Model 3. They are chalk and cheese IMHO:
I, too, have a Model 3, and a deposit on an ID.4. If you'd start one, I'd like to see a topic comparing the two cars from a technical perspective. There are things I love, and things I hate, about the Model 3, and would enjoy conversing with those who have owned both a Model 3 and an ID.4, thanks!
 

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I, too, have a Model 3, and a deposit on an ID.4. If you'd start one, I'd like to see a topic comparing the two cars from a technical perspective. There are things I love, and things I hate, about the Model 3, and would enjoy conversing with those who have owned both a Model 3 and an ID.4, thanks!
I've been following the ID4 release closely and have watched and read lots of reviews - but haven't seen one in the flesh yet. However, from all I've watched & read, it seems to be a very nice car that ticks most of the boxes for this sort of vehicle. If I wanted an SuV-like vehicle then I'd go for one.

Like the ID3 though, its achilles heel will be the software. Our ID3 went in to the dealers last week for the famed "2.1 final" release of the software but the update process failed and the car is now bricked waiting a new control module and another attempt at it (ETA 2 weeks !). OTA updates are promised in this release, but I'm very doubtful that it'll be OTA in the same sense as Tesla since the VW architecture looks highly distributed with control modules all over the car, and the update of these seems very fragile. Given that, I think its likely that VW can't, or won't, offer updates for them - the risk of bricked cars on people's driveways would be very damaging. So, I think that updates will probably be on the main infotainment system only. That's in need of a lot of work though since it's laggy and confusing to use - way short of the Tesla system. Frankly, it all needs throwing away and starting again.

Then there's the VW back-end server infrastructure and its comms with the car - which looks to be a bag of nails too judging by the appalling state of the mobile app.

Overall, I still think VW are another iteration away from something decent on the software and I'm concerned that the ID3 and ID4 will be left high and dry with this older generation.

However, the car's hardware design and execution are excellent - it's this that's keeping me overall positive about the car. Build quality is noticeably better than the Tesla.
 

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I must have been in a hurry to start this thread, but I'm sure most understand I was curious about comparisons between the ID.4 -- not ID.3 -- and the Tesla Model 3.

Is it worth posting the thread in the forum that interest me, or should I expect the responses cover most everything others have to offer?

Thanks!
 

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Whilst the cars will clearly have differences, there is a lot in common between the ID3 and the ID4. They share the same platform - so the drivetrain, battery management system, infotainment, software, HVAC, back-end servers, charge system, build quality, and more will be the same. The differences will mainly be in terms of the interior (which seems better on the ID4), the driving experience (different, but probably most will think the SUV handling of the ID4 will be worse), range (worse than the 77kWh ID3 but probably slightly better than the 58kWh one), the interior size and accommodation, towing (not possible with the ID3), and roof-rack (again, not possible on the ID3).

If you post elsewhere the challenge will be finding people with the ID4 just yet - it's only just about arriving in real owners's hands now.
 
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