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ID.4 Pro EPA range released (260 miles)

5093 Views 28 Replies 16 Participants Last post by SunWizard, Apr 14, 2021

salant76

Discussion Starter · Apr 12, 2021

VW just confirmed that the EPA range for the Pro model will be 260 miles. Hopefully this means that the AWD will be closer to 240 in the Pro version.

EPA confirms 260-mile range for Volkswagen ID.4 Pro electric SUV

Volkswagen of America, Inc., is pleased to announce a second round of fuel economy figures for the 2021 ID.4 electric SUV.

media.vw.com

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FredT

· #2 · Apr 12, 2021

salant76 said:
VW just confirmed that the EPA range for the Pro model will be 260 miles. Hopefully this means that the AWD will be closer to 240 in the Pro version.

EPA confirms 260-mile range for Volkswagen ID.4 Pro electric SUV

Volkswagen of America, Inc., is pleased to announce a second round of fuel economy figures for the 2021 ID.4 electric SUV.

media.vw.com

I wonder what would account for the difference between Pro and Pro S? They have the same wheel size, unless perhaps the Pro S estimate is based upon the Pro S with Gradient, which has the same wheels as 1st.

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mmcbtx

· #3 · Apr 12, 2021

So much for all of us thinking they were putting out a blanket 250 across all models. I guess the 10 mile difference is the wheel size & maybe weight (glass roof, etc.)? Though using the MPGe numbers, it seems like the difference should be only 5-7.

All things considered, it wouldn't have me rushing to change my reservation or spend money to go to smaller wheels.

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YowVil

· #4 · Apr 12, 2021

FredT said:
I wonder what would account for the difference between Pro and Pro S? They have the same wheel size, unless perhaps the Pro S estimate is based upon the Pro S with Gradient, which has the same wheels as 1st.

That must be it. I think VW has to estimate the number of Pro S sales that will be equipped with the Statement Package and adjust the final number accordingly.

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NeilBlanchard

· #5 · Apr 12, 2021

It is probably the tires mainly; for several reasons: the greater weight - which counts "double" because they have to be spun and also moved along with the car. Wider tires can have higher rolling resistance, AND they have higher aerodynamic drag, because they have greater frontal area, too. Wider tires increase the energy use in 3 ways. The glass roof is heavier, so that also increases the rolling resistance, so that affects the energy use in 2 ways.

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krusshall

· #6 · Apr 12, 2021 (Edited)

NeilBlanchard said:
It is probably the tires mainly; for several reasons: the greater weight - which counts "double" because they have to be spun and also moved along with the car. Wider tires can have higher rolling resistance, AND they have higher aerodynamic drag, because they have greater frontal area, too. Wider tires increase the energy use in 3 ways. The glass roof is heavier, so that also increases the rolling resistance, so that affects the energy use in 2 ways.

I think the 19" wheels and the 20" wheels have the same tire widths. Bjorn weighed a Pro vs. FE in one video and the difference in weight was pretty minor. I'd say the biggest factor is the extra weight of the 20" wheels and tires.

Edit - Yes regardless of diameter the fronts are 235 and rears are 255.

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PoRscheTek

· #7 · Apr 12, 2021

Doesn't the Pro come with 18 in wheels Pro S 19 in wheels and the FE and Gradient package get 20 in wheels?

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krusshall

· #8 · Apr 12, 2021

PoRscheTek said:
Doesn't the Pro come with 18 in wheels Pro S 19 in wheels and the FE and Gradient package get 20 in wheels?

Pro and Pro S get 19". FE and Gradient get 20"

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SunWizard

· #9 · Apr 12, 2021

I think the biggest factor for the better range is the smaller wheels and tires, they have lower rolling resistance and less aero drag. The roughly 100 pounds of extra weight of the massaging seats and sunroof are a smaller factor. All of the tesla models get 20-40 miles less range just by choosing bigger wheels. Someone will likely run a test on the ID.4 to compare the same car, same track, swap wheels. Or even better, a side-by side test of 2 ID.4 with the only difference being wheels.

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NeilBlanchard

· #10 · Apr 12, 2021

krusshall said:
I think the 19" wheels and the 20" wheels have the same tire widths. Bjorn weighed a Pro vs. FE in one video and the difference in weight was pretty minor. I'd say the biggest factor is the extra weight of the 20" wheels and tires.

Edit - Yes regardless of diameter the fronts are 235 and rears are 255.

Thanks for the correction on the tire widths. I agree that the greater weight of the tires is the majority, and the greater weight of the entire vehicle, is a smaller contributor to the range difference.

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tommyb

· #11 · Apr 12, 2021

Anyone have any creative idea on how to swap wheels and get the 19"ers on an FE?

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Spin

· #12 · Apr 12, 2021

tommyb said:
Anyone have any creative idea on how to swap wheels and get the 19"ers on an FE?

Maybe someone will trade with you. I've seen that on other forums.

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krusshall

· #13 · Apr 12, 2021

tommyb said:
Anyone have any creative idea on how to swap wheels and get the 19"ers on an FE?

Advertise on this forum when the Pro and Pro S deliveries start happening. I'm sure there will be interested parties.

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eVDub

· #14 · Apr 12, 2021

Anyone know how much more range could we expect from VW in an OTA update?

Here's a side-by-side comparison of both models:

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Dana

· #15 · Apr 12, 2021

salant76 said:
VW just confirmed that the EPA range for the Pro model will be 260 miles. Hopefully this means that the AWD will be closer to 240 in the Pro version.

EPA confirms 260-mile range for Volkswagen ID.4 Pro electric SUV

Volkswagen of America, Inc., is pleased to announce a second round of fuel economy figures for the 2021 ID.4 electric SUV.

media.vw.com

I asked VW chat if the Pro would have more range than other trims awhile ago and the rep said no. (A VW spec sheet at the time didn't show a range for the Pro, but did show 250 miles for the FE and Pro S). The Pro must have more range bc it's over 100 lb lighter and mostly bc it has smaller wheels than the FE or Pro S with Gradient. The tire model could be a big factor too. They all have the same width tires and wider in back than in front. EngineeringExplained has a long video with formulas that makes a strong case that larger wheels cut down on range. There may be a trade-off though. Which trim is going to stop faster? That depends partially on what tires are on the Pro vs. what's on FE or Pro S with Gradient. The tire aspect ratios and car weights are different on the trims too so they are likely factors.
I forget, has anyone taken delivery on a Pro in U.S. yet so that we know the tire specs?

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ExCivilian

· #16 · Apr 12, 2021

Ask on the forum or even your dealer. They're usually willing to swap out someone's premium wheels for base ones. They can sell the 20s as an upgrade to the next customer.

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krusshall

· #17 · Apr 12, 2021

eVDub said:
Anyone know how much more range could we expect from VW in an OTA update?

Not sure what you mean? Tesla protagonists claim that efficiency improvements are regularly made via OTA but hardware is hardware and motors/inverters don't get more efficient with software changes. Now how electricity is used/recaptured over the entirety of the operating states can be optimized via software but those aren't likely to amount to a major range increase. Nor is the battery buffer likely to change (another Tesla "trick"). An example of where electricity savings may occur is with the battery thermal management. European owners said that the current logic isn't efficient for short trips during cold weather as the thermal management wants to get the battery pack to a certain temperature whether your trip is 2 minutes or 2 hours. Perhaps that logic will be optimized in time where less electricity may be wasted.

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krusshall

· #18 · Apr 12, 2021

Dana said:
I asked VW chat if the Pro would have more range than other trims awhile ago and the rep said no. (A VW spec sheet at the time didn't show a range for the Pro, but did show 250 miles for the FE and Pro S). The Pro must have more range bc it's over 100 lb lighter and mostly bc it has smaller wheels than the FE or Pro S with Gradient. The tire model could be a big factor too. They all have the same width tires and wider in back than in front. EngineeringExplained has a long video with formulas that makes a strong case that larger wheels cut down on range. There may be a trade-off though. Which trim is going to stop faster? That depends partially on what tires are on the Pro vs. what's on FE or Pro S with Gradient. The tire aspect ratios and car weights are different on the trims too so they are likely factors.
I forget, has anyone taken delivery on a Pro in U.S. yet so that we know the tire specs?

It's not about the larger wheel per se. It's about the rotating mass and larger wheel/tire combos almost always have more mass than smaller wheel/tires combos. The more mass, the more energy needed to accelerate that mass and keep that mass rotating.

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NeilBlanchard

· #19 · Apr 12, 2021

VW sells a 19" wheel that has 5 pairs of spokes, that costs $365 each; and comes in a staggered set of four. The tire sizes are 235/55-R19 front and 255/50-R19 rear.

19" Winter Wheel - Brilliant Silver - Winter Wheel
This Fits Your 2021 Volkswagen ID.4

Part Number: 11A0714998Z8

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Kitt

· #20 · Apr 12, 2021

tommyb said:
Anyone have any creative idea on how to swap wheels and get the 19"ers on an FE?

Just ask your dealer. I did. According to the dealer, several Pro buyers are interested in swapping wheels and technically it isn't an issue. So I'm just going to drive the FE with original wheels until the first Pro owner wants to swap.

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