Volkswagen ID Forum banner
1 - 20 of 55 Posts

·
Registered User
Joined
·
4 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Picked up my ID.4 on Monday, have driven maybe 100 mi so far and am really enjoying the experience. However, I’ve noticed that Lane Assist is very unreliable and more hazard than help - definitely not lane centering as promised and actually worse than in my e-Golf. Has anyone else seen this?
Have heard it works well on ID.3, is Software different for US vs. EU?
 

·
Registered User
Glacier White/Lunar Grey 1st Edition with 19" Wheels
Joined
·
166 Posts
Picked up my ID.4 on Monday, have driven maybe 100 mi so far and am really enjoying the experience. However, I’ve noticed that Lane Assist is very unreliable and more hazard than help - definitely not lane centering as promised and actually worse than in my e-Golf. Has anyone else seen this?
Have heard it works well on ID.3, is Software different for US vs. EU?
Under what conditions are you using it? I was very impressed with the system on the interstate, but I could see how city driving would be dicey
 

·
Registered User
Joined
·
4 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
2 lane and 4 lane highway; and I can see in the display the car recognizes markings, but then does not react to them, or does briefly and then seemingly disengages without warning - and at best reacts very late when over the line, definitely not keeping car centered in lane at any time.
 

·
Premium Member
VW ID.4 1st (picked up 3/19/21).
Joined
·
935 Posts
Picked up my ID.4 on Monday, have driven maybe 100 mi so far and am really enjoying the experience. However, I’ve noticed that Lane Assist is very unreliable and more hazard than help - definitely not lane centering as promised and actually worse than in my e-Golf. Has anyone else seen this?
Have heard it works well on ID.3, is Software different for US vs. EU?
Are you using just "Lane Assist", or are you also turning on "Travel Assist"?


I use TA, and it does a good job as long as the roads don't have sharp turns.
 

·
Registered User
ID.4 1st Edition White / Lunar Grey
Joined
·
957 Posts
I found it useful on long highway segments, and pretty quickly felt comfortable with it. But it requires "love taps" too often, and I ended up resting both hands on the steering wheel.
 

·
Premium Member
VW ID.4 1st (picked up 3/19/21).
Joined
·
935 Posts
I found it useful on long highway segments, and pretty quickly felt comfortable with it. But it requires "love taps" too often, and I ended up resting both hands on the steering wheel.
With Hyundai, it would try and sense small human inputs to the steering wheel, and on long straight sections it would nag me to put my hands on the wheel when in fact they were there already.

The VW system senses the presence of hands with a capacitive sensor. So just resting a few fingers on the wheel in the right spot is enough to keep it happy.
 

·
Registered User
2021 VW ID.4 1st Edition, Dusk Blue <3
Joined
·
415 Posts
Yeah I am guessing you're not activating Travel Assist, which actually offers the lane centering ability. It is the lower right button on the left side of the steering wheel. You can actually just tap on that button (with cruise control enabled, not necessarily active) and the car will simultaneously activate adaptive cruise control (I think resuming a previously set speed if you have one) and lane centering, all with just the one tap. If you want adaptive cruise without lane centering you can just activate using the Set or Resume button.
 

·
Premium Member
VW ID.4 1st (picked up 3/19/21).
Joined
·
935 Posts
Yeah I am guessing you're not activating Travel Assist, which actually offers the lane centering ability. It is the lower right button on the left side of the steering wheel. You can actually just tap on that button (with cruise control enabled, not necessarily active) and the car will simultaneously activate adaptive cruise control (I think resuming a previously set speed if you have one) and lane centering, all with just the one tap. If you want adaptive cruise without lane centering you can just activate using the Set or Resume button.
I would add that tapping the brakes turns it off, along with ACC.
 

·
Registered User
Joined
·
217 Posts
Can we all agree the distinction between Lane Assist and Travel Assist is just insane? A Tesla activates Autopilot on a simple double click of the drive stalk. That's it. The could have just copied the simplicity of Tesla. Instead they created half a dozen confusing buttons on the steering wheel to activate multiple slightly different features. It's this kind of UX that makes me think VW still has a long way to go.
 

·
Registered User
Joined
·
4 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Are you using just "Lane Assist", or are you also turning on "Travel Assist"?


I use TA, and it does a good job as long as the roads don't have sharp turns.
Thanks - that’s it. User error - didn’t realize that what’s always on is just Lane Assist and that Travel Assist has to be activated every time after having stepped on the brakes. Having used it this afternoon I agree it works well, even in light rain and dusk.
 

·
Registered User
Joined
·
167 Posts
Can we all agree the distinction between Lane Assist and Travel Assist is just insane? A Tesla activates Autopilot on a simple double click of the drive stalk. That's it. The could have just copied the simplicity of Tesla. Instead they created half a dozen confusing buttons on the steering wheel to activate multiple slightly different features. It's this kind of UX that makes me think VW still has a long way to go.
I think there's a naming and education problem here, and VW shares the blame with Tesla and the other manufacturers. Tesla is trying to be cool and showy, everyone else is trying to play it on the down-low and informative, and there's little industry-wide convention on what stuff is called and what it does. It seems there are several systems that can sometimes work with each other and I'm still not entirely sure how they can interact or be turned on and off, especially the excellently named "Speed Limiter with Predictive Cruise Control."

NOTE: I'm using the ID.4 Manual from Europe that is available in various place on the interwebs.

Adaptive Cruise Control (ACC) is the enhanced cruise control, which can follow other vehicles at a distance and bring the car to a stop. Pretty common stuff here. There's also a conventional Cruise Control that ignores other cars - and that I find infuriating now that I've used ACC for a few years. The only reason to use this is if the radar sensors that ACC uses get blocked or otherwise disabled.

Speed Limiter with Predictive Cruise Control (PCC?) adds posted speed limit following. It can use data from either a camera on the front of the car, or nav database data, or both to figure out what the speed limit is (allegedly). This is newish, Tesla was the leader, and this seems to lead to all kinds of driving shenanigans from the car. I'm going to need to actually use it in the car to figure out how to turn it on and when. I can't decide if this can be engaged along with Travel Assist, below. I think it can...maybe? In Europe? Who knows about in the US?

Lane Keeping System is somewhat passive. It uses cameras to identify the edges of lanes. It monitors, and if you begin to cross a lane edge without a turn signal it provides a warning and/or steering input. It does NOT keep you centered. I think of this as the "hey, dummy, why didn't you signal to change lanes" warning. I have this turned off, mostly because of our atrocious US and state laws regarding road markings. Old lane markings and road construction seams at an angle, combined with just plain non-standard or no standard markings make this engage way too often to be useful or usable.

Travel Assist is a lane keeping and centering function also includes ACC. It uses the same camera as the Lane Keeping System for, uh, lane keeping and centering. This is what Tesla refers to as "Autopilot" for the most part. In my Honda I have to turn both functions on separately (lane keeping while using manual accelerator control is strange, this is a better setup). It'll steer for you and keep you at a constant speed or distance from the vehicle in front. I love this. When it works, it's magic. When the above-mentioned poor markings rear their ugly heads, this can get...interesting, and I don't mean in a good way. The good news is, you can watch the car and over time learn where the weak spots are. On a well-marked road, it's darn near perfect.

I think Super-Cruise - a stupidly named product by GM - is essentially Travel Assist, but with some additional data thrown in.

Two more comments:
1. Gotta RTFM on these, practice with them, and watch them. They're awesome, until they're not. You need to understand not only what they do, but what sensors they're using to do it. These are going to get people hurt when they do something unexpected which is not uncommon. The lawyer-speak in the manual doesn't help. People need real training on these, and need to understand the real risks. Tesla gets a lot of bad press for stuff like this, but I guarantee it's happening with other brands. I doubt law enforcement/accident reporting even has a way to track or report this for the most part.

2. US roadway laws are ridiculous. Lane keeping and Travel Assist are dependent on well-marked, and consistently marked, roads. We just don't have that here, and they're either not mandated, or it's not enforced.
 

·
Registered User
Joined
·
267 Posts
I think Super-Cruise - a stupidly named product by GM - is essentially Travel Assist, but with some additional data thrown in.
Travel Assist is a driver aid based on lines on the roadway. Super Cruise is a true hands-free driver aid that knows where it is and where it's going. It also can change lanes without driver intervention other than activating the turn signal.
 

·
Registered User
Joined
·
217 Posts
So there's CC, ACC, PCC, LaneAssist, and TravelAssist, some of which you may be able to combine, some not. No wonder they need so many buttons on the steering wheel. VW needs less traditional car designers and more people who think like a Steve Jobs: just remove all the buttons except one. Basically what Tesla did. That one activates the most advanced feature, and it falls back to less advanced modes if needed (with a clear feed forward). If you need to read a manual to understand how to use a feature, you've already lost. Blaming this on the user is too easy. Honestly, the clusterfuck of a UX on the infotainment system made it already clear that VW has a lot to learn.
 

·
Registered User
Joined
·
267 Posts
So there's CC, ACC, PCC, LaneAssist, and TravelAssist, some of which you may be able to combine, some not. No wonder they need so many buttons on the steering wheel. VW needs less traditional car designers and more people who think like a Steve Jobs: just remove all the buttons except one. Basically what Tesla did. That one activates the most advanced feature, and it falls back to less advanced modes if needed (with a clear feed forward). If you need to read a manual to understand how to use a feature, you've already lost. Blaming this on the user is too easy. Honestly, the clusterfuck of a UX on the infotainment system made it already clear that VW has a lot to learn.
It's not complicated, it's about familiarity. I got Travel Assist going the first time I test drove it. Guess what...then I could tell my wife how to do it when she test drove it. Tesla? You do need to read the manual to figure out what to do. There's no markings or indications on how to activate AP. Guess what else...2 years with a Tesla and I can't figure out how to adjust the spacing for adaptive cruise. I've driven the ID.4 one time and can tell you which button and where it is.
 
  • Like
Reactions: theboomr

·
Registered User
Joined
·
167 Posts
Travel Assist is a driver aid based on lines on the roadway. Super Cruise is a true hands-free driver aid that knows where it is and where it's going. It also can change lanes without driver intervention other than activating the turn signal.
Yep. I agree. ...and Super Cruise staying in a lane is also going to be based on lines on the roadway. There's no other way to stay in the lane. Changing lanes is based on more sensor data, more processing power, and more GPS/roadway data. Tesla is doing this too. Both of them need well-painted lanes to make this work.

It's fascinating watching the manufacturers all try to crack to self-driving nut. Super Cruise and Tesla's Autopilot are going the right way. It's going to take tons of sensors and data to do it. Super Cruise is on a very limited subset of roadways, and while I'm no expert (I'm a dog on the internet) it's because they're being super cautious and testing it before allowing it. Tesla is a "little more free," so to say. You're free to try anything in a Tesla, but there have been...incidents. Based on my experience with lane keeping, until the road markings in the US are somewhat standardized and vastly improved, self-driving in any general sense is a myth.

It's a bummer. I'm looking forward to self-driving cars. I've watched the quality of life of too many friends and family members rapidly decline when they can no longer safely drive, but could certainly interact with others and take part in society if they could just get where they need to go on their own.
 

·
Registered User
Joined
·
217 Posts
It's not complicated, it's about familiarity. I got Travel Assist going the first time I test drove it. Guess what...then I could tell my wife how to do it when she test drove it. Tesla? You do need to read the manual to figure out what to do. There's no markings or indications on how to activate AP. Guess what else...2 years with a Tesla and I can't figure out how to adjust the spacing for adaptive cruise. I've driven the ID.4 one time and can tell you which button and where it is.
We disagree here. VW has a long history and it shows here. I assume it went like this: They added a cruise control button to the steering wheel when it came it out. When ACC came out, they just added a second button not to confuse existing VW drivers who were used to cruise control. But ACC has variable distance option, so they added a button next to the ACC button to set distance, presumably because the first car with ACC didn't have an infotainment system. (a distance button is super odd, because it's a preference or setting you should set once and not need to change while driving). Then PCC came along, and TravelAssist. And those needed buttons too. And that's why we ended up in 2021 with half a dozen buttons on the left side of the steering wheel for what basically should be one feature. Don't get me wrong, it's not a deal breaker for me, but as an industrial designer and software engineer, bad design definitely annoys me.
 

·
Registered User
ID.4 Pro S AWD / Waiting, waiting, waiting
Joined
·
635 Posts
Guess what else...2 years with a Tesla and I can't figure out how to adjust the spacing for adaptive cruise.
Have you tried left & right on the right scroll button?
 

·
Registered User
Joined
·
167 Posts
So there's CC, ACC, PCC, LaneAssist, and TravelAssist, some of which you may be able to combine, some not. No wonder they need so many buttons on the steering wheel. VW needs less traditional car designers and more people who think like a Steve Jobs: just remove all the buttons except one. Basically what Tesla did. That one activates the most advanced feature, and it falls back to less advanced modes if needed (with a clear feed forward). If you need to read a manual to understand how to use a feature, you've already lost. Blaming this on the user is too easy. Honestly, the clusterfuck of a UX on the infotainment system made it already clear that VW has a lot to learn.
krusshall is correct. Just gotta learn how to use it.

Lots of new stuff here.
It's not complicated, it's about familiarity. I got Travel Assist going the first time I test drove it. Guess what...then I could tell my wife how to do it when she test drove it. Tesla? You do need to read the manual to figure out what to do. There's no markings or indications on how to activate AP. Guess what else...2 years with a Tesla and I can't figure out how to adjust the spacing for adaptive cruise. I've driven the ID.4 one time and can tell you which button and where it is.
Didn't Tesla change what the steering wheel buttons/rollers do on the Model 3/Y a couple of years ago? Labels go a long way. I love the idea of soft buttons that can be reconfigured, but they need labels too. I'm mildly jealous of your Tesla. That's what I'd have if they'd shipped the Model 3 just a few months earlier.
 
1 - 20 of 55 Posts
Top