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As I feared - Hyundai's 800V architecture needs some more development. Looks like they have some thermal issues to figure out.

 

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As I feared - Hyundai's 800V architecture needs some more development. Looks like they have some thermal issues to figure out.

Still quite amazing. 218 kW charge rate! Wow... even a thermal-throttled 120ish kW around 45% SoC is amazeballs. ID.4 gets 83 kW around 45-50% SoC and drops to around 50 kW at 80% SoC

The Ioniq needs both pre-conditioning (to heat up the battery to charge) and better battery cooling (to allow for faster charging and more power output).
 

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I watched the other Bjorn video (
) where he notices low voltage sag (by percent) compared to other EVs.

It seems the Ioniq 5 batteries (specifically the cells) are high quality but thermal management s questionable. At 50 Celsius (battery temp), the car refused to push out full power.

Still, being able to charge at 200+ kW even for 20% of the battery is amazing to me.
 

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The interior and exterior design elements of the Ioniq 5 and EV6 really appeal to me. At a basic level, they just look like the future! I'm really interested to see more long-term and in-depth reviews of the Kia EV6 when it comes to the charging technology and interior space. I have that sneaking feeling that my ID.4 purchase (hopefully in January or February) might leave me with some regret when we start to see the Hyundais and Kias on the road, particularly when I'm taking a road trip. But those cars are more ideas than reality right now in the US.
 

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The interior and exterior design elements of the Ioniq 5 and EV6 really appeal to me. At a basic level, they just look like the future! I'm really interested to see more long-term and in-depth reviews of the Kia EV6 when it comes to the charging technology and interior space. I have that sneaking feeling that my ID.4 purchase (hopefully in January or February) might leave me with some regret when we start to see the Hyundais and Kias on the road, particularly when I'm taking a road trip. But those cars are more ideas than reality right now in the US.
ID.4 is giant steelboat with couches for seats. It should be great for road trips.

Ioniq 5 and EV6 are sold out in most places in the world and only 1500 EV6s will be delivered to the US (First Editions at $59K) in Jan... the rest later in 2022. I suspect very few Ioniq 5 and EV6s will be available for a while. And who knows about reliability (performance looks amazing though). Given how the thermal management system throttles the power... I'd be wary about driving one on highways in Florida summers.
 

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ID.4 is giant steelboat with couches for seats. It should be great for road trips.

Ioniq 5 and EV6 are sold out in most places in the world and only 1500 EV6s will be delivered to the US (First Editions at $59K) in Jan... the rest later in 2022. I suspect very few Ioniq 5 and EV6s will be available for a while. And who knows about reliability (performance looks amazing though). Given how the thermal management system throttles the power... I'd be wary about driving one on highways in Florida summers.
They are still compliance EV for US and they will not be sold at all 50 states vs GM .....Nissan and VW.
By time they start selling all 50 states...there will be Chinese EV makers entering US and some of them are on quality like Lexus and EV hardware and software on the level of Tesla ( if not even better from my testing experience while i was in China)
Only downside is LFP Chemistry that will not work well for owners where harsh winters get very cold....it will need to be connected non stop on L2 or L1 in the winter.
Hyundai..Genesis.....Kia EV have still issues with motor efficiency besides 800 V HV Battery battery management.... I hope they will integrate more expensive hardware for inverter and revisions for battery cooling and heating.
 

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If people weren't overwhelmingly voting ID.4 on an ID forum, that would be very ominous.

I reserved an XC40 Recharge way back when but, when it became available, I cancelled. Entirely too much money (even with the $7,500 rebate) for relatively poor range. Don't get me wrong, that thing is beautiful. We have a regular XC90 T6 Momentum and I really like the Volvo style inside and out but I just couldn't justify the price.

I have an ID.4 Pro S AWD (NOT Gradient) reservation from back on 9/30/2020. I had to keep it under $50k MSRP to be eligible for Massachusetts $2,500 EV rebate. I would have liked it in red but, not only was that a $395 option, the Gradient package was also required for some ridiculous reason, putting the total well over $50k. That was a deal breaker there so blue it is.

I didn't even bother with the Q4. I know it will be too expensive at the trim level I want a la Volvo. Given the underpinnings are the same as the ID.4, the interior and tech just can't justify the increased cost.

I put my IONIQ5 reservation in June 2021. The colors are shit in my opinion so I just went with black. I opted for the Limited trim since that's where are the fun tech toys are but how am I supposed to decide on trim WHEN I DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH IT WILL COST!!! Like, seriously that's inexcusable.

I got a call from the VW dealer 5 minutes away from me on 10/1/2021, exactly 1 year after I made the reservation. I scheduled a test drive and made sure to bring my wife along. This was the first EV that my wife and I have driven. I had never even been in an EV. I left there very conflicted but I could tell my wife really liked it and she's very particular.

Ultimately, the lack of pricing and ever changing federal tax credit landscape pushed us to buy the ID.4 that was available now for a good price (MSRP). Could the IONIQ5 be better? Absolutely. But it will cost more. That will eliminate the $2,500 MA rebate for me which is a big deal. Also, no one knows when it will arrive and what incentives will be then.

I wouldn't even consider the EV6 at this point since it feels so far away.
 

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Happy owner of a blue ID.4 FE
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The battery assembly in Ioniq 5 does not look as neat as iD4:
Couldn't agree more! When I saw the screen grabs and then the video "untidy and unfinished look of the battery pack" was the first thought that came to my mind. Later in the video you see the bottom plate with coolant channels, where my immediate thought was "that can't be enough cooling!", and as Bjorn's video above shows, you do get thermal throttling on both, charging and power delivery while driving.

It seems to me that the battery pack in the e-GMP platform was rushed, and therefore the cars deliver less than they technically could.
VW rushed their software, and hence we all complain here. But the battery and drivetrain are solid.
Even if I didn't own an ID4 yet, the choice would be crystal clear to me.
 

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They are still compliance EV for US and they will not be sold at all 50 states vs GM .....Nissan and VW.
By time they start selling all 50 states...there will be Chinese EV makers entering US and some of them are on quality like Lexus and EV hardware and software on the level of Tesla ( if not even better from my testing experience while i was in China)
Only downside is LFP Chemistry that will not work well for owners where harsh winters get very cold....it will need to be connected non stop on L2 or L1 in the winter.
Hyundai..Genesis.....Kia EV have still issues with motor efficiency besides 800 V HV Battery battery management.... I hope they will integrate more expensive hardware for inverter and revisions for battery cooling and heating.
Years ago I laughed at the idea of using LFP for car batteries. Seems like a backward move.. to be used in cheap EVs in China - a less dense battery that cold not perform in cold temperatures but after the Bolt/Kona fires fiasco and Model 3 SR+ using LFP... I'm warming up to them (pun intended).

In Florida and southern states they would work well and they are NOT AS VOLATILE as NMC pouch cells used in the Bolt, Kona, Mach-E, ...ugh..ID.4... lol. I wonder if insurance companies would get wise to this and give discounts to LFP based vehicles?
 

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The xc40 is really cool too. I just couldn't bring myself to spend 10 - 15k more to get more power and have a better looking vehicle than the id4. The id4 isn't ugly, but it ain't sexy like the xc40. Lol. Someday I hope to have the $ to buy based on looks.
ID 4 is sexy to an EV purist 😍 as it is a ground up EV. Credit to VW for investing in the MEB platform. Please bring over the ID 3, it will sell, the looks, efficiency, and price will appeal to US buyers looking for alternatives to ugly, stale Bolts and Leafs.
 

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If people weren't overwhelmingly voting ID.4 on an ID forum, that would be very ominous.
Yup.

Putting Tesla aside for the moment, I'm not seeing a car that makes a substantially more compelling case than the ID.4 until you get into the price range of a Taycan or an EQS. Yes to the 800 v cars, when they can show substantially less time at charging stations in real world driving. Even then, I can hope that ID.4 fast charging becomes more reliable and quicker at the upcoming 175 kW maximum. I wish for a 360 degree camera view, but even the Q4 is not rolling that out right away. Auto hold? HUD? True one-pedal driving with no artificial creep at 3 MPH? Maybe those things are in the cards for ID.4 with an OTA. 0-60 in no seconds flat like an XC40 recharge sounds fun, but I'd probably never use it after the test drive, and I'm not giving up my 33' turning radius for the ability to snap your head back with AWD. I wish for a stiffer suspension option, but I'll settle for 4600 lbs with a low center of gravity.

ID.4 does just about everything pretty well and a few things really well. The cockpit on the steering column is genius. The interior ambient lighting is fun, even a little sexy (we've set it for Virgin America retro). I get what folks say about the heat coming through the glass roof, but the glass roof is gorgeous. Wireless Apple Carplay is pretty close to an ideal infotainment setup IMHO, and once I get A Better Route Planner to read the ID.4's current state of charge, I may not even notice if ID.4 eventually achieves infotainment perfection.

Yes, the ID.4 is quirky. But these are now the quirks I'm used to, and I don't want to trade them for another set of quirks I'm not used to.

What will get me to part company with the ID.4 is a compelling increase in energy efficiency. I've been doing the math, and so long as we're playing in the neighborhood of 77 kWh usable onboard, we need is an improvement in the car's drag coefficient of 0.28. I'm not sure this is possible with a car that has the ID.4's height and roofline. But kudos to the Tesla Model Y and its drag coefficient of 0.23. Give the ID.4 this drag coefficient and its range would jump more than 10%, according to my precise calculations that no one should trust. The TMY is butt-ugly IMHO, but I'm starting to get why it's ugly.

I love driving electric cars, but the government is not investing billions in EVs to improve my driver experience. Like it or not, we're here to reduce the carbon impact of the personal automobile. So, show me something like a Taycan or an EQS that gives me a tiny drag coefficient to reduce my energy consumption. Wave a magic wand and give my ID.4 a 0.20 Cd, and I'll gladly live without dedicated buttons to lower the rear windows.
 

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While charging South of Oklahoma City this afternoon I met a Polestar 2 . It is on nation wide promotional tour. The guy was having incredible difficulties charging. He would get about 15 second of charge and it would shut off. I will post pics after I get to WiFi.
 

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I wonder if insurance companies would get wise to this and give discounts to LFP based vehicles?
As someone with 40-plus years experience in the commercial insurance business, the insurance companies are going to wait and see what the actual claim activity looks like for these cars before they start giving big discounts or adding surcharges to this model or any other new model.

A couple of other insurance considerations -- generally most of your insurance premium is tied to the liability side -- that's the portion of your policy that responds when you hit someone else (car, pedestrian or other property) and its you're fault, resulting in your insurance company paying the other party. EVs hit other cars, people and objects just as well as gas powered cars.

The second biggest premium factor for auto insurance is the physical damage coverage for your vehicle. The cost of the car plays into this, which in turn is based on the selling price of the car, but also availability and cost of parts and whether special repair techniques are involved. New models can complicate this issue.

You also have the issue of how the average buyer of a given model is driving. This is why sports cars owners often pay higher rates -- as a group, they drive faster and have more accidents. I'd like to think the ID4 drivers are, overall, pretty reasonable drivers. However, time will tell....
 

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I have no idea why it is copying double pics. If a moderator wants to trim one of each it wouldn’t bother me.
 

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While charging South of Oklahoma City this afternoon I met a Polestar 2 . It is on nation wide promotional tour. The guy was having incredible difficulties charging. He would get about 15 second of charge and it would shut off. I will post pics after I get to WiFi.
Not surprising. Mach-E owners have posted detailed reports and don't have the same affinity to EA as we do:


EA works but it's like a box of chocolates. Most charges are problem free but there's always the one day where everything seems broken.
 

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Another reviewer noticing the Ioniq 5 (and probably all 800V E-GMP cars) has some serious battery thermal management issues. If it takes 30minutes to cool the system down after charging... to get full power then what's the point of faster charging?

 

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Another reviewer noticing the Ioniq 5 (and probably all 800V E-GMP cars) has some serious battery thermal management issues. If it takes 30minutes to cool the system down after charging... to get full power then what's the point of faster charging?

Hyundai-Kia will probably figure this out eventually but this just tells me E-GMP is "less baked" than MEB. Say what you will about the ID software but the hardware is solid. Now just hoping that CARIAD dials-in the software relatively soon...
 
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