Volkswagen ID Forum banner

I have driven my ID4 extensively and, re: inappropriate ESC intervention described herein;

  • Other: I am non-US AWD/GTX owner (please post experience and software version)

    Votes: 0 0.0%
221 - 240 of 251 Posts

·
Registered User
Joined
·
15 Posts
Thanks @VW Dave! That is sort of the best and worst outcome at the same time. I never cared much about the software update but to bundle what I would label safety fixes with the cosmetic UI changes is annoying. They ought to at least fast-track our AWD cars to get the updates sooner.
 

·
Premium Member
2021 Pro S Gradient AWD
Joined
·
575 Posts
I think a software engineer would describe this as a “corner case”. It’s a combination of sensor inputs and speed and road curve radius and who knows what else. All the conditions must occur simultaneously to trigger the problem. That’s why I can spend an hour driving random curving roads and never see this at all. But there are several specific places where it happens 100% for me. Some owners either never encounter all the conditions, or they just haven’t noticed.

A knowledgeable source said the update might drop in June.
 

·
Registered User
2021 ID.4 AWD ProS
Joined
·
136 Posts
"... Some owners either never encounter all the conditions ..
Well stated.

I've got ≈6k miles on the car ... but it only does it for me on the same 3x frequently-travelled sections of road.

It's not as simple as "curvy roads" ... it's SPECIFIC curves at SPECIFIC speeds.

It's amazingly repeatable in these sections.

So the chances of it occurring for any one driver are lower than one might otherwise expect.

Then ... it is SUBTLE ... if you're not on ACC (which DOES cause audible and text alerts AND ACC "disengagement") ... I'd think that MANY drivers might NEVER even notice the silent flashing of the ESC icon as they're negotiating the curve(s).

Many drivers might also mistake that the sound produced as simply "irregular road-surface noise."

It's NOTHING like the sound and feel of the ABS action being invoked during a panic stop w/ poor traction. It's MUCH more subtle.
 

·
Registered User
Joined
·
843 Posts
Having Travel Assist on with the beep is the only way I knew that one time it came on for no reason. Isn’t it a case of the slower you go the higher the percentage of error the computer reads for any slippage? It also happens when I go fast around corners, of course.
 

·
Registered User
2021 ID.4 AWD ProS
Joined
·
136 Posts
... Isn’t it a case of the slower you go the higher the percentage of error the computer reads for any slippage? ...
Don't know the answer to your question, however I'm not convinced that this is "ONLY" ABS-related.

I certainly don't think the wheels are slipping any more than they do on any other curve of apparently near-similar conditions where the ESC is NOT activated. (This all occurs during what is decidedly NOT "aggressive" driving ... no hard accel/decel or cornering forces ... it's far closer to "little 'ol lady" driving)

ABS wheel speed sensors are indeed "inputs" to ESC, and selective brake application is indeed a "controlled output."

BUT ... I suspect that they are not the "only" inputs and "controlled outputs" of the vehicle's ESC.

Might it be something other than ABS? [Example: ESC generally also controls motor outputs (torque) as well does it not?]

Any details on the ID.4's ESC implementation would no doubt be an interesting "tech background" read to many of us here.
 

·
Registered User
2021 Pro AWD
Joined
·
306 Posts
Discussion Starter · #228 ·
So how can it be software when very few people have it? Maybe a software engineer can explain this to me?
Made first post into a poll.
It's hard to draw any conclusions re: how widespread this is based on this thread. But based on what we've learned today, yes, all AWD US ID4 should be affected currently. I agree with what has been reasoned that it's very specific circumstances and can be subtle.
 

·
Registered User
Joined
·
233 Posts
Might it be something other than ABS? [Example: ESC generally also controls motor outputs (torque) as well does it not?]
This could also be "TRACTION CONTROL" being activated, not necessarily "ESC". The indicator light is associated with both. However, I believe TC still uses the brakes/ABS system as a means to manage the open differential wheel spin.
 

·
Registered User
Joined
·
843 Posts
I had to vote no because some wild things have been described in this thread and mine was one time and it was nothing just a beep at 25 mph. The polling questions are vague for some reason. How is that helpful at all? Having activation of the traction systems is normal or like in cases like mine, nothing. Only if the car is constantly activating for no reason or on a certain curve every time is it serious problem. How many ID.4’s are on the road now anyhow? I will let the experts make sense of any of this so I’m out.
 

·
Registered User
Joined
·
2,141 Posts
I'm interested in seeing some videos. Wheel sensors could have issues not sending correct data to the ESC and causing this. Someone who can recreate this with technician in the car tell him to record all 4 wheel sensors, steereng wheel angle ,speed and other sensors related to ESC. And have them send this to the engineering department as log file.
It only takes one good technician and someone who can recreate this issue to figure out this problem.
 

·
Registered User
2021 Pro AWD
Joined
·
306 Posts
Discussion Starter · #233 ·
I'm interested in seeing some videos. Wheel sensors could have issues not sending correct data to the ESC and causing this. Someone who can recreate this with technician in the car tell him to record all 4 wheel sensors, steereng wheel angle ,speed and other sensors related to ESC. And have them send this to the engineering department as log file.
It only takes one good technician and someone who can recreate this issue to figure out this problem.
there are a couple videos in this thread.

I did the data collection but didn't save the log correctly so just have a point in time, but when I was driving around in circles and parking lots the abs sensors all seemed correct. one lateral acceleration sensor was in constant state of malfunction.

07:25:02
IDE02986-IDE04431 Indicator lamps-ASR and ESP indicator lamp OFF
IDE04422-IDE04450 Brake system sensor-Brake pressure sensor 1 80.00 bar
IDE04425-IDE00920 Left front ABS wheel speed sensor-Front left wheel speed 53.26 km/h
IDE04426-IDE00921 Right front ABS wheel speed sensor-Wheel speed: right front 53.23 km/h
IDE04427-IDE00922 Left rear ABS wheel speed sensor-Left rear wheel speed 52.83 km/h
IDE04428-IDE00923 Right rear ABS wheel speed sensor-Right rear wheel speed 53.00 km/h

IDE04443-IDE02241 Slip control system sensor-Lateral acceleration sensor 1 Malfunction
IDE04443-IDE02538 Slip control system sensor-Longitude Acceleration Sensor 0.98100 m/s≤
IDE04443-IDE04429 Slip control system sensor-Lateral acceleration sensor 1: offset -0.24525 m/s≤
IDE04443-IDE04430 Slip control system sensor-Longitudinal acceleration sensor: offset 0.00000 m/s≤
IDE04443-IDE04449 Slip control system sensor-Rotation rate sensor 1: Z-axis -0.24025 ∞/s
IDE04443-IDE04460 Slip control system sensor-Steering angle sensor: offset straight line running -0.48751 ∞
 

·
Premium Member
2021 Pro S Gradient AWD
Joined
·
575 Posts
I'm interested in seeing some videos. Wheel sensors could have issues not sending correct data to the ESC and causing this. Someone who can recreate this with technician in the car tell him to record all 4 wheel sensors, steereng wheel angle ,speed and other sensors related to ESC. And have them send this to the engineering department as log file.
It only takes one good technician and someone who can recreate this issue to figure out this problem.
I previously posted 2 videos and have a 3rd to add now. It helps if you listen with headphones or earbuds so you can hear the subtle change in sound in Example 2.





 

·
Registered User
2021 ID.4 AWD ProS
Joined
·
136 Posts
" ... This could also be "TRACTION CONTROL" being activated, not necessarily "ESC". The indicator light is associated with both ..."
This is a good point.

The icon flashing by itself - as occurs in "normal driving" - indeed could represent activation of either system.

However, FWIW, when this occurs w/ Cruise Control (ACC) "on" .... the accompanying text message specifically reads "ESC Intervention."
 

·
Registered User
2021 ID.4 AWD ProS
Joined
·
136 Posts
" ... Only if the car is constantly activating for no reason or on a certain curve every time is it serious problem ..."
That's EXACTLY what it is doing in my own case.

I can reporoduce it on one particular section or road 100% of the time ... and our local servcice tech has done the same.

I have made several movies over a few months.

I'm NOT saying that the sky is falling ... NOR do I feel that the vehicle is unsafe to operate ...

... but something appears to be "confusing" the computer into assessing that the vehicle has become sufficiently unstable to require intervention ... when it's anything but.
 

·
Registered User
Joined
·
84 Posts
That's EXACTLY what it is doing in my own case.

I can reporoduce it on one particular section or road 100% of the time ... and our local servcice tech has done the same.

I have made several movies over a few months.

I'm NOT saying that the sky is falling ... NOR do I feel that the vehicle is unsafe to operate ...

... but something appears to be "confusing" the computer into assessing that the vehicle has become sufficiently unstable to require intervention ... when it's anything but.
Same here. Every time, and also on the onramp that OP posted to me earlier. For me it is a problem when you are in the 2 lanes ramp that will merge into one and you are trying to maintain speed or go a little faster, ESC come on and slow down the car when you are least expected.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
8 Posts
I previously posted 2 videos and have a 3rd to add now. It helps if you listen with headphones or earbuds so you can hear the subtle change in sound in Example 2.





I was on a windy road today in Colorado called Peak-to-peak. It is not tight turns but quite a few. I only mention the road for those who might know the type of road. I turned off the ESC function under the Brakes menu and still got the flashing ESC light with accompanied decrease in power. Does that mean its traction control? There seems to be no correlation with how tight or fast or the steering wheel angle. I went around the same turn at different speeds with the ESC on and off and at slow speeds say around 35mph which is 5 below the posted limit for the turn I would get intervention. At higher speeds up to 45MPH I wouldn't get any intervention. In some turns with only a few degrees of steering wheel angle and coasting it would still activate. I also noticed that when it was hot on asphalt with spots that had more tar it seemed to activate more. Tires are all the same PSI at 42. Its not really a problem for driving for me yet but its annoying. I realize my experience is not exactly scientific.
 

·
Registered User
2021 ID.4 Pro S AWD In My Garage!
Joined
·
59 Posts
This just happened to me today as I took the I-90 east exit from the 405 heading to issaquah. Car felt like it was handling fine until the light started flashing. Then it felt kinda sluggish until the flashing stopped and everything returned to normal.
Perfectly dry and moderately warm conditions.
I did have to pass under an overpass type structure and the road was darkened for a brief moment, but I don’t think that should have any relation to the system kicking in and trying to prevent me from skidding even though I wasn’t in any danger of doing so. I wasn’t going fast or anything through the turn.
Thankfully I remembered this thread so I didn’t freak out and think my car was a dud or something.
just an odd sort of thing to happen.
 

·
Registered User
2021 ID.4 AWD ProS
Joined
·
136 Posts
IDE04443-IDE02241 Slip control system sensor-Lateral acceleration sensor 1 Malfunction
IDE04443-IDE02538 Slip control system sensor-Longitude Acceleration Sensor 0.98100 m/s≤
IDE04443-IDE04429 Slip control system sensor-Lateral acceleration sensor 1: offset -0.24525 m/s≤
IDE04443-IDE04430 Slip control system sensor-Longitudinal acceleration sensor: offset 0.00000 m/s≤
IDE04443-IDE04449 Slip control system sensor-Rotation rate sensor 1: Z-axis -0.24025 ∞/s
IDE04443-IDE04460 Slip control system sensor-Steering angle sensor: offset straight line running -0.48751 ∞
I've been surprised that this hasn't yet received any comments.

It also reinforces my "theory" the this issue isn't an "ABS wheel sensor" issue (as that would cause ABS faults all the time), but rather something is amiss elsewhere in the OTHER Stability Control sensory inputs. (e.g. 3-axis accelerometers, steering command, chassis compression, etc.)

I would think that the "lateral acceleration sensor" malfunction must be a clue.
 
221 - 240 of 251 Posts
Top