[Lennox]

I am seriously considering swapping to a Tesla Model Y RWD s opposed to the ID4 First. The reason is because of very limited info from VW.

The RWD is a $7k difference and the AWD is a $14K difference. Somehow, I am thinking the Tesla would have greater longevity as it it more mature in terms of hardware and software, thus lower total cost of ownership.

and if EV tax credit is reinstated for Tesla then the difference of $7K would be for the AWD.

Anyone have similar thoughts? I will be test driving the Model Y AWD this week.

Comment welcomed.

 

[ted99]

Tesla dropped prices when their eligibility for tax credits ended. The people that will make out are those that buy a Tesla before any extention comes thru and they raise prices. It's a gamble for those choosing to buy before any Govt announcement, because it may not happen or eligibility rules may change.

 

[JTL]

Tesla dropped prices when their eligibility for tax credits ended. The people that will make out are those that buy a Tesla before any extention comes thru and they raise prices. It's a gamble for those choosing to buy before any Govt announcement, because it may not happen or eligibility rules may change.

They will only raise prices if the demand allows it. Competition is heating. Here is a nice car but who knows it if will ever make it to the U.S. and if it does what will the tariffs be?

Should Elon worry? Nio's 620-mile range ET7 electric car costs £60k

The Chinese family car will cost less than half the price of Tesla's new Model S Plaid that's due to arrive later this year. But there are reasons why Mr Musk shouldn't be too concerned just yet.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[eldecarlo]

They will only raise prices if the demand allows it. Competition is heating. Here is a nice car but who knows it if will ever make it to the U.S. and if it does what will the tariffs be?

Should Elon worry? Nio's 620-mile range ET7 electric car costs £60k

The Chinese family car will cost less than half the price of Tesla's new Model S Plaid that's due to arrive later this year. But there are reasons why Mr Musk shouldn't be too concerned just yet.

www.dailymail.co.uk

They most likely won’t raise prices? A less expensive battery is not far away and it may cost half of what they are now. Plus, like you said competition is heating up. There are rumors they will have a 25k EV in the next year or so. I’m still in a holding pattern, but I can’t wait forever. I will need a car as soon as my wife goes back into the office.

 

[Huey52]

Since I had an "FE" reservation on a Tesla 3 I still get regular emails. Many more of late on solo motor standard range Y. I'm fine with that as competition is a good thing. That's one of the reasons I boltered on the 3, to await a more competitive market with more offerings. The ID.4 was a pleasant surprise and just what I was looking for. I do still prefer the more 'classical' CUV planform for my use, even as I recognize the Y as a significant EV.
Once you make your decision don't look back. That just drives you crazy. 🤪

 

[egsell]

Since I had an "FE" reservation on a Tesla 3 I still get regular emails. Many more of late on solo motor standard range Y. I'm fine with that as competition is a good thing. That's one of the reasons I boltered on the 3, to await a more competitive market with more offerings. The ID.4 was a pleasant surprise and just what I was looking for. I do still prefer the more 'classical' CUV planform for my use, even as I recognize the Y as a significant EV.
Once you make your decision don't look back. That just drives you crazy. 🤪

I’d suggest drive yourself crazy up to the point where you sign the dotted line. After that embrace and enjoy what you decided on. The fact that these decisions are so hard suggests the market is getting filled with interesting options with different baskets of goods for different customer profiles.

 

[JTL]

I’d suggest drive yourself crazy up to the point where you sign the dotted line. After that embrace and enjoy what you decided on. The fact that these decisions are so hard suggests the market is getting filled with interesting options with different baskets of goods for different customer profiles.

I suspect there will continue to be more and more choices/options both with the vehicle design and the batteries and of course price. Tax credits will likely continue and perhaps even be extended to include Tesla and anyone else that sell in excess of 200K units per year.

 

[TimD]

I suspect there will continue to be more and more choices/options both with the vehicle design and the batteries and of course price. Tax credits will likely continue and perhaps even be extended to include Tesla and anyone else that sell in excess of 200K units per year.

I hope you’re right about extending tax credits and including Tesla and GM. More competition is better. I assume tax law requires approval of both houses of Congress, and Senate approval wouldn’t be guaranteed. But I’m hopeful.

 

[Huey52]

Yes indeed and I was thinking same even if not well conveyed. I do compare with each new product available/or projected and am pleased that as of this writing the ID.4 is still the best choice for my needs incl. desired price range.

I’d suggest drive yourself crazy up to the point where you sign the dotted line. After that embrace and enjoy what you decided on. The fact that these decisions are so hard suggests the market is getting filled with interesting options with different baskets of goods for different customer profiles.

 

[Kitt]

It looks like the $7,500 tax credit for Tesla will return indeed and we'll hear more details in the few weeks. It does mean the Tesla Model Y SR (with superior Autopilot standard and superior UX) will be cheaper than the ID4 FE.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1353474507122552835

 

[jlewis3323]

It looks like the $7,500 tax credit for Tesla will return indeed and we'll hear more details in the few weeks. It does mean the Tesla Model Y SR (with superior Autopilot standard and superior UX) will be cheaper than the ID4 FE.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1353474507122552835

I just read the wording in the proposed Biden Infrastructure Bill and it will reinstate the $7,500 deduction on EVs without 200K Cap. It also has some wording to give “preference” to American made EVs. On Utube video posted last week the Bill is to be submitted to Congress on 2/23. Reviewer states it has high probability to pass with both Democrats and Republicans (House and Senate) as funding for key US Infrastructure is in the Bill. Also there is a statement to fund increase number of Charging Stations across the US.

 

[TT97]

It looks like the $7,500 tax credit for Tesla will return indeed and we'll hear more details in the few weeks. It does mean the Tesla Model Y SR (with superior Autopilot standard and superior UX) will be cheaper than the ID4 FE.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1353474507122552835

I am personally not a fan of the $7,500 tax credit, I would much rather see the money diverted into better EV infrastructure. The U.S. needs much better infrastructure to have the general population get into EVs. I wouldn't be surprised if Tesla raises their prices as soon as they get the tax credits back.

 

[JTL]

I am personally not a fan of the $7,500 tax credit, I would much rather see the money diverted into better EV infrastructure. The U.S. needs much better infrastructure to have the general population get into EVs. I wouldn't be surprised if Tesla raises their prices as soon as they get the tax credits back.

Prices are going to have to be lower to before EV's can go mainstream. Tesla will keep pricing on the Y competitive to drive more sales but if they can increases prices they will. They make little if any profit from selling cars right now.

 

[emtonsti]

I suspect the fed incentive only caused new EV prices to be $7,500 higher than they would have been otherwise (along with the instant post purchase $7,500 depreciation). It would probably be more efficient and equitable to just to give the incentive directly to the manufacturers.

 

[TT97]

They make little if any profit from selling cars right now.

Tesla makes a very nice profit selling cars. Their gross margin on sales is about 25% which is on the upper end of automobile companies. It's just that they do not sell very many cars so their fixed costs are spread over a much smaller number of cars than the other companies and they spend a lot of money on growing the company and R&D.

 

[Kitt]

I am personally not a fan of the $7,500 tax credit, I would much rather see the money diverted into better EV infrastructure. The U.S. needs much better infrastructure to have the general population get into EVs. I wouldn't be surprised if Tesla raises their prices as soon as they get the tax credits back.

That's a false dilemma. You can both spend money on a better EV infrastructure and subsidize EVs, as other countries have shown.

The goal of EV subsidies is to bootstrap demand and bring price parity with gas cars forward by years. Whether the way the current tax credit is implemented is the most efficient way to achieve that goal is another discussion.

It will be hard for Tesla to raise their prices by $7,500, since they have real competitors now that can produce in large quantitates. Worst case there might be less pressure on Tesla to lower prices further in the future. Either way, it will be a level playing field again.

You could also argue the opposite: it will be challenging for VW to keep the ID4 prices at the same level. With the Model Y now starting at $42k, I honestly wouldn't be surprised if VW lowers the price of the ID4 FE to $40k or $42k.

 

[ID.Furkan]

Yes VW can lower the price easily by selling the 58kwh version of the car (see the difference between skoda enyaq iv60 and iv80) the price difference is 7-8k € between the models.

The barebone ID.4/77kwh costs currently 44k € including tax. No assist, no alloy rims, not a single thing extra. You just get the interior with steering and your infotainment and that's it. If the 58kwh version of the ID 4 will drop they can release it around 38k euros -(estimating/taking a guess) which is lots of car for such a price here. Time will tell when they drop that. Cheapest enyaq iv60 is currently 40.5k, but has some assists and alloyrims standard.

 

[Kitt]

Yes VW can lower the price easily by selling the 58kwh version of the car (see the difference between skoda enyaq iv60 and iv80) the price difference is 7-8k € between the models.

They can't ship a lower specced FE in the USA. They might sell a lower specced version later, but that doesn't solve the current problem they have. I think they'll somehow have to absorb the costs and accept lower margins. (and there's also money they waste on marketing right now. I see a ton of ID4 ads on social media)

VW dropped the ball by not prioritizing building the ID4 US factory. It might have been easier to adjust had the ID4 been produced in the US from the start, probably like VW is able to lower the prices in China: VW Releases ID.4 Prices In China: It's Cheaper Than The Tesla Model 3

Also, had they delivered the FEs in December, the current price wouldn't have been a problem either. But they dropped the ball on software development or production or whatever the reason is the car isn't here yet.

They're now in a really uncomfortable situation where the #1 competitor with a more premium offering is cheaper than Volkswagen (Volkswagen!) at the time of launch. It sure sucks to be VW right now: When the EV credit returns, a Model Y SR will be $2k cheaper, and a 3 SR+ $6k cheaper, or from a different angle: a 3 AWD LR is just $3k more expensive, and a Y AWD LR just $6k more expensive). I like the ID4, but Tesla seems to have a better offer. 🤷‍♂️

 

[jlewis3323]

They can't ship a lower specced FE in the USA. They might sell a lower specced version later, but that doesn't solve the current problem they have. I think they'll somehow have to absorb the costs and accept lower margins. (and there's also money they waste on marketing right now. I see a ton of ID4 ads on social media)

VW dropped the ball by not prioritizing building the ID4 US factory. It might have been easier to adjust had the ID4 been produced in the US from the start, probably like VW is able to lower the prices in China: VW Releases ID.4 Prices In China: It's Cheaper Than The Tesla Model 3

Also, had they delivered the FEs in December, the current price wouldn't have been a problem either. But they dropped the ball on software development or production or whatever the reason is the car isn't here yet.

They're now in a really uncomfortable situation where the #1 competitor with a more premium offering is cheaper than Volkswagen (Volkswagen!) at the time of launch. It sure sucks to be VW right now: When the EV credit returns, a Model Y SR will be $2k cheaper, and a 3 SR+ $6k cheaper, or from a different angle: a 3 AWD LR is just $3k more expensive, and a Y AWD LR just $6k more expensive). I like the ID4, but Tesla seems to have a better offer. 🤷‍♂️

I test drove the Model Y today. Must say I was impressed by everything the car offered. I looked very closely at fit and finish and did not find any problems. Interior was well done and sound system exceptional. The ride was fairly quiet with some audible wind noise, but this car did have the double pain glass that helped. The suspension was stiffer, but not what I would call a hard ride. Felt more like a Sport suspension with excellent response. I would say the single motor Y is a great car and option especially if the Tax credit goes through, which expected to be submitted 23 Feb. Will wait until my FE arrives to compare the cars and overall ride before I decide which to buy.

 

[Kitt]

I test drove the Model Y today. Must say I was impressed by everything the car offered. I looked very closely at fit and finish and did not find any problems. Interior was well done and sound system exceptional. The ride was fairly quiet with some audible wind noise, but this car did have the double pain glass that helped. The suspension was stiffer, but not what I would call a hard ride. Felt more like a Sport suspension with excellent response. I would say the single motor Y is a great car and option especially if the Tax credit goes through, which expected to be submitted 23 Feb. Will wait until my FE arrives to compare the cars and overall ride before I decide which to buy.

I haven't driven the ID.4 but I have watched every YouTube video possible (even a subtitled hilarious Swedish winter test). From what I gather the ID4 is the better car when it comes to comfort, quietness and build quality. VW is really a traditional corporation with hardly any experience in EVs and software, Teslas is company from the future compared to VW.

Teslas are basically super cars in sedan and SUV form and years ahead of any other car manufacturer when it comes to software (both UX and self-driving capabilities). I think there's a market for both the Model Y and the ID.4. I honestly would probably be very happy with either.

I do wonder if we will the opportunity to test drive the ID.4 before we have to lock in the order.