[ixlr08]

I do wonder if we will the opportunity to test drive the ID.4 before we have to lock in the order.

Depends on your definition of "lock in the order". Will your order be finalized before you test drive the car, yes or they won't build the car. But you don't have to take final delivery until you have test driven the car. You can cancel the order and get your money back up until the time you sign on the dotted line and take final delivery.

 

[ted99]

I have an FE order which has already locked in and "had" a second Pro order in expectation of a later delivery. When VW asked me to lock in and pay the additional $400 for the Pro order last week, I cancelled that order as it did not seem there was any "shortage" of availability (kept the FE order). So, will you be able to test drive before paying the next $400?--probably not.

 

[TimD]

I have an FE order which has already locked in and "had" a second Pro order in expectation of a later delivery. When VW asked me to lock in and pay the additional $400 for the Pro order last week, I cancelled that order as it did not seem there was any "shortage" of availability (kept the FE order). So, will you be able to test drive before paying the next $400?--probably not.

I canceled my Pro S reservation last week because I'd prefer to delay spending money on a new car until later this spring, and I'd like to first go to a dealership to see a demo car and maybe some paint color samples if they have them. I figured that if Ford can keep their online Mustang Mach-E ordering system active 14 months after taking its first reservations (with an autumn price cut to boot), VW will keep their ID.4 ordering site active, at least until they start delivering cars. Competition is heating up in 2021, so I think there's less urgency to be an early adopter.

 

[OUTAGAS]

It's been a few days since I've been on the site as I've been racking my brain over what to do on this topic. i.e. keep my ID.4 reservation, hold out to see if Tesla gets the $7500 tax incentive back, or just buy the SR RWD Model Y now with the anticipation that it will come through and I can apply when filing my 2021 tax return next year. What are your opinions (anyone that is familiar with this) as to whether the incentive would apply to prior sales? Is it possible that a Model Y purchased before the legislation passes (assuming it does) would not be eligible for the incentive? I need to put my $400 down on my ID.4 reservation by tomorrow to lock in my order, and I'm torn on which way to go. I knew I wanted the ID.4, until Tesla went and released the RWD Model Y right about the same time that VW emailed me to lock in my order!

 

[emtonsti]

It seems of all the manufacturers, VW is the easiest about refunding the $500 (after the $400 payment) with just a click of the cancellation button, and a few follow up clicks to confirm (at least that was my experience with my first FE cancellation), and Ford the most risky (some Ford dealers do NOT refund the $500 Mach-E reservation/order payment).

If you can afford to have $500 tied up for a while, best option would seem to be keep your VW option open. We might know the rules for any changes to the $7,500 fed tax credit before ID.4s get to the dealers, at least the Pro versions after FE.

OTOH, in some number of months, ID.4 Pro will just be another car on the VW dealer lots too. Another possibility, while Ford dealer are not allowed to sell their "FCTP" demo cars until some number of miles (possibly 4,000 for Mach-E), I got the sense that VW dealers can sell their ID.4 demos (not sure).

 

[RocketVol]

It's been a few days since I've been on the site as I've been racking my brain over what to do on this topic. i.e. keep my ID.4 reservation, hold out to see if Tesla gets the $7500 tax incentive back, or just buy the SR RWD Model Y now with the anticipation that it will come through and I can apply when filing my 2021 tax return next year. What are your opinions (anyone that is familiar with this) as to whether the incentive would apply to prior sales? Is it possible that a Model Y purchased before the legislation passes (assuming it does) would not be eligible for the incentive? I need to put my $400 down on my ID.4 reservation by tomorrow to lock in my order, and I'm torn on which way to go. I knew I wanted the ID.4, until Tesla went and released the RWD Model Y right about the same time that VW emailed me to lock in my order!

It seems to me it depends on what car you really want. If you want a Telsa over the ID.4 then the play that keeps the most options open the longest is to lock in the ID.4 and wait to see what happens. Or even better cancel your existing ID.4 order and put a new one in to put yourself at the back of the line and buy more time. That, right now, is no risk and you will not lose your $500 and can get it back anytime before you sign.

You might still find yourself at a decision point in a few months when the ID.4 arrives, because laws and Congress do not move fast. And then it will again come down to which one you want the most. One thing I try to do is to never make a big decision until I have to. Keep your options open as long as you can because things can and do change, up to that point. And you don't have to make a decision that will really cost you money right now.

 

[OUTAGAS]

Thanks guys, that's where I was leaning, to go ahead and throw the $400 down and lock in which will give me some additional time to think about/make a final determination. I plan to go test drive a Model Y as jlewis3323 did, and ideally would like to drive the ID.4 before making a final decision. Hopefully, by that time there will be more clarity on the legislation/tax incentive. There's obviously no risk on the added $400 since everything is easily refundable. If it's still not clear, I can do like Kitt said and just pull my order until it is.

 

[OUTAGAS]

Thanks guys, that's where I was leaning, to go ahead and throw the $400 down and lock in which will give me some additional time to think about/make a final determination. I plan to go test drive a Model Y as jlewis3323 did, and ideally would like to drive the ID.4 before making a final decision. Hopefully, by that time there will be more clarity on the legislation/tax incentive. There's obviously no risk on the added $400 since everything is easily refundable. If it's still not clear, I can do like Kitt said and just pull my order until it is.

Sorry, it was RocketVol that suggested I could pull my reservation and put in a new one, not Kitt...

 

[ted99]

What are your opinions (anyone that is familiar with this) as to whether the incentive would apply to prior sales? Is it possible that a Model Y purchased before the legislation passes (assuming it does) would not be eligible for the incentive?

I have some experience with writing regulations. Sometimes the enabling legislation is prescriptive on what the terms of a tax credit may be, and sometimes the legislation just gives general terms and the implementing agency (IRS in this case) writes a detailed regulation--this is very time consuming and unlikely in this instance. Sometimes, a tax change will start on 1) beginning of the then-current tax year, 2) effective the date of introduction of the legislation, 3) effective upon passage of the legislation and, 4) effective at some later date. Usually, the proposed legislation will state which of these applies. All too often, a piece of legislation like a change to the tax credit starts as a stand-alone bill, but later gets added to some other piece of legislation in a conference committee and a lot of hidden deals get done here. Therefore, you cannot completely rely on any language in the initial draft of the bill. You need to be a high-dollar lobbyist to have any visibility into this. The bottom line--you can never tell what is going to happen. You can bet on one or another outcome and take the risk of being wrong. This is going to be a highly political action between the environmental lobby and the car manufacturers against the anti-debt faction and with a 50/50 split in the Senate I am not making any bets. One compromise I can envision is that the Tax credit is extended to satisfy one group, but it's effective date is next year to satisfy the other group. This was my job at one time and I wouldn't even hazard a guess as to which way it will come out.

 

[Kitt]

All good I’m in the same boat and so are many others. I’m keeping my ID4 reservation (already paid the $400) and will decide to either buy a Tesla or VW after we know more about the new EV incentives.

I currently leaning towards Tesla, but we’ll see.

btw, is anyone aware VW ever mentioned they might add a TeslaCam like feature to the ID4? That’s probably the downside of a European car: the engineers and managers probably don’t see much use for it in Europe, while it could be a (financial) life saver in the US.

 

[emtonsti]

TeslaCam like features would be great, I am so tired of adding aftermarket dash cams.

My first dash cam was to try to understand false collision alerts in my gen 2 Volt (one turned out to be the sun line of a bridge). Then, after my sister told me about a hit and run with her car in a parking lot, I realized the security advantage, not to mention having accident documentation (where hopefully, I am not to fault!).

 

[gazpachoking]

btw, is anyone aware VW ever mentioned they might add a TeslaCam like feature to the ID4?

Are there any car manufacturers other than Tesla that do this? I've been wondering if this is something that could come to the ID.4, or any other car I've been looking at, and can't understand why it hasn't become a standard feature now that almost every car has multiple built in cameras.

 

[RocketVol]

Thanks guys, that's where I was leaning, to go ahead and throw the $400 down and lock in which will give me some additional time to think about/make a final determination. I plan to go test drive a Model Y as jlewis3323 did, and ideally would like to drive the ID.4 before making a final decision. Hopefully, by that time there will be more clarity on the legislation/tax incentive. There's obviously no risk on the added $400 since everything is easily refundable. If it's still not clear, I can do like Kitt said and just pull my order until it is.

i can't imagine anyone will not get to test drive the ID.4 before buying. It might be your order at the dealership, but I can't believe they would not let you drive the car before you sign on the line for it. And any good dealer should let you drive it home even or take a day or two to think it over.

 

[OUTAGAS]

I have some experience with writing regulations. Sometimes the enabling legislation is prescriptive on what the terms of a tax credit may be, and sometimes the legislation just gives general terms and the implementing agency (IRS in this case) writes a detailed regulation--this is very time consuming and unlikely in this instance. Sometimes, a tax change will start on 1) beginning of the then-current tax year, 2) effective the date of introduction of the legislation, 3) effective upon passage of the legislation and, 4) effective at some later date. Usually, the proposed legislation will state which of these applies. All too often, a piece of legislation like a change to the tax credit starts as a stand-alone bill, but later gets added to some other piece of legislation in a conference committee and a lot of hidden deals get done here. Therefore, you cannot completely rely on any language in the initial draft of the bill. You need to be a high-dollar lobbyist to have any visibility into this. The bottom line--you can never tell what is going to happen. You can bet on one or another outcome and take the risk of being wrong. This is going to be a highly political action between the environmental lobby and the car manufacturers against the anti-debt faction and with a 50/50 split in the Senate I am not making any bets. One compromise I can envision is that the Tax credit is extended to satisfy one group, but it's effective date is next year to satisfy the other group. This was my job at one time and I wouldn't even hazard a guess as to which way it will come out.

Thanks, this is some great insight and highlights that I should wait to see what happens in terms of the legislation before making a final decision. One concern was similar to some others as to whether the Tesla price goes up in response to getting the tax credit back. Other concerns would be the mad rush of folks that will likely order the Model Y as soon as it becomes clear what's happening, or the potential for Elon watering down some of the Standard Range Model Y features without notice (i.e. heating steering wheel, Autopilot, premium interior/sound, etc.).

 

[TT97]

I have an AWD reservation so have not been asked for the additional $400 yet. What happens to your reservation when they ask to lock in but you don't? Does your reservation stay as "Reservation confirmed" or do they cancel? I am guessing for F.E. would be different than having a Pro reserved - you should be able to jump in line for a Pro at any time

 

[Kitt]

I have an AWD reservation so have not been asked for the additional $400 yet. What happens to your reservation when they ask to lock in but you don't? Does your reservation stay as "Reservation confirmed" or do they cancel? I am guessing for F.E. would be different than having a Pro reserved - you should be able to jump in line for a Pro at any time

That happened to me. I missed the reminder emails and they just canceled the order and promptly refunded the initial $100. I never received any emails from VW after that.

I reached out to customer service after I figured out what happened (I think via a chat function on the vw site) and they were able albe to manually create a new reservation for me (this was before the second batch of FE became available). Support was super helpful, but their automated systems are certainly not as good as Tesla or any Silicon Valley tech company.

 

[emtonsti]

I have an AWD reservation so have not been asked for the additional $400 yet. What happens to your reservation when they ask to lock in but you don't? Does your reservation stay as "Reservation confirmed" or do they cancel? I am guessing for F.E. would be different than having a Pro reserved - you should be able to jump in line for a Pro at any time

It is difficult to keep track of all this, I found it in one of the VW emails (I knew I had seen it somewhere, possibly another thread here too). The "double 14 days" thing is really weird. Ah! I remember the question now, if you return to the queue during the second 14 day period, do you return to your original spot, or at the end of the queue? There are so few of us, it many not matter.

Your ID.4: What to expect next - Step 2 – Place your order: To lock in your order and begin production, you must pay an additional fully refundable Vehicle Deposit of $400. We will notify you via email when this step is required and you will have 14 days from our first notification to pay your additional Vehicle Deposit and lock your order. If you have not paid your Vehicle Deposit within 14 days of our first notification, you will lose your spot in the reservation queue.*

*If you miss the order lock deadline, you will have another 14 days to pay the additional $400 and return to the reservation queue. If no action is taken by the end of those 14 days, we will automatically cancel your reservation and issue a refund for your original $100 reservation deposit.

 

[wingiv]

It is unlikely to get the dashcam feature that Teslas have built-in for the American version. The reasoning is that there is no camera for the front and side for the American feature for the launch year version. This also is why there is no 360 degree camera for the American version. If rumors are true, there will be front and side cameras next year for the ID.4.

 

[Kitt]

how can the VW equivalent of autopilot work if there’s no front camera? 🤷🏻‍♂️

 

[Kitt]

Also, just a front and back dashcam would already be better than nothing