[cwerdna]

So, I own a '19 Chevy Bolt. It has a US-made battery so it wasn't under recall until ALL Bolts got recalled on 8/20/21 (General Motors to Recall Additional Bolt EVs). I also had '13 Leafs for almost 8 years. I'm in California and am considering requesting a buyback to see what GM offers for me. If it's good enough, I might lease ID.4 as a replacement.

Here in PG&E-land we may have extended power outages (Learn about Public Safety Power Shutoffs (PSPS)). I went thru two of those in 2019 and they were each longer than 24 hours. It's possible I might have more of these in the next few years.

As I mention at Using Bolt Battery as home emergency backup, I used Samlex PST-1000-12 sine wave inverter attached to the 12 volt bus of my Bolt to power my fridge + some other stuff. There's a trick that worked to keep the car in READY mode so that the DC to DC converter was engaged at all times so I didn't flatten the 12 volt.

I am worried the online manual for the ID.4 in the high-voltage battery section says "The high-voltage battery must not be used as a stationary power source. Otherwise, this can lead to irreversible damage to the high-voltage battery." I'm obviously not tapping into the HV bus and battery, just the 12 volt bus.

Has anyone successfully used an inverter hooked up to the 12 volt bus for extended period of time (24+ hours)? Is the trick at Power inverter to charge an ebike-battery ? good enough? Is the warning in the manual an idle threat/CYA and intend to cover my use case? Anyone know what the max DC to DC converter output is?

 

[fiehlsport]

Yes. I used a Dewalt 1000w inverter clamped to the battery terminals last power outage. I put a heavy speaker on the driver's seat and hit the ignition button once to keep everything on. This runs the DC/DC converter and keeps the 12v system fed from the HV battery.

My max load on the inverter was around 600w IIRC, I ran a small freezer and charged some batteries.

 

[JPWhite]

I am worried the online manual for the ID.4 in the high-voltage battery section says "The high-voltage battery must not be used as a stationary power source. Otherwise, this can lead to irreversible damage to the high-voltage battery." I'm obviously not tapping into the HV bus and battery, just the 12 volt bus.

Tesla have a similar caution in their manual indicating warranty is void if used as a stationary power source.

It's a shame since EV's d have a large amount of energy that could keep refrigerators or medical devices powered during an extended outage.

 

[JimmyVW]

The car doesn’t get any cooling from moving air when sitting stationary. The battery cooling is managed by a fan but there are loads of components that depend on some moving air

 

[John411iD]

Anyone know what the max DC to DC converter output is?

Actual current and voltage of the DC/DC converter in ID.4 can be observed on a smartphone with any obd2 dongle in the Car Scanner Elm Obd2 app. This current can be quite high at times (defogging, seat heating) etc.
The important parts are most likely liquid cooled in ID.4, coolant pump and cooling liquid temperature can be monitored with this app as well.

 

[SunWizard]

Anyone know what the max DC to DC converter output is?

Its 3kw and water cooled, but may be a problem to operate near that amount for cooling reasons mentioned above.

 

[Tinman]

Would there be any advantages of using something like a Yeti or small 12V battery bank with a goal of ~750 W continuous, low peaks, like a modern refrigerator? With everything fully charged going into a power failure, I wonder how the vehicle's DC-DC would treat it and if the 'electrical math' would work out?

 

[JPWhite]

The car doesn’t get any cooling from moving air when sitting stationary. The battery cooling is managed by a fan but there are loads of components that depend on some moving air

Not sure I buy into that. When rapid charging fans will kick in. Clearly the car has to be stationary to rapid charge ;-)

Drawing current off over a many hours during an outage is much less thermal stress than rapid charging.

 

[Islander]

Hmm. I purchased a Ecoflow River Max 576 wH battery to have a power source during blackouts, and during extended blackouts I plan to recharge my River Max using the 12v outlet in the trunk of my ID.4. I will eventually get around to repositioning the fuse for the 12v so that this outlet is always on. The 12v is only 10 amps [CORRECTED, see comment below, thanks Ray N.], and I'm assuming there's no issue in drawing power from it for as long as I like while the car is otherwise powered off ... so long as there's enough power in the ID.4 high voltage battery ... and I assume that the power will be drawn from the ID.4's high voltage system and not from the 12v battery ... though now I'm starting to wonder.

 

[Ray Noneya]

Hum I thought the fuse for the 12 volt outlet was 20 amp it is!

 

[Islander]

Hum I thought the fuse for the 12 volt outlet was 20 amp it is!

Well ... this from p. 175 of the Owner's Manual (which has to be one of the least helpful pieces of literature in the history of literature). The numbering is my own.

1. "Do not exceed the maximum power of the sockets. The power draw of devices is listed on their information labels."

I'm sorry. There are labels? Where are they?

2. "The total continuous output of all 12 V sockets in the vehicle is 120 watts."

And, as there is only one 12 V socket, that would be 10 amps. But wait!

3. "The maximum power of a 12 V socket in the vehicle when the vehicle is drive-ready totals 180 watts."

Again ... only one socket. I assume my car is drive-ready in my driveway. So ... 15 amps?

4. "Using 12 V sockets for too long at maximum power can cause the fuse to blow. Never use 12 V sockets at their maximum power for longer than 10 minutes."

So, 15 amps for no more than 10 minutes, and ... something less than 15 amps after that?

Luckily, VW ends this section of the owner's manual with a particularly helpful statement.

5. "Only ever use a single 12 V socket at maximum power."

Again ... there is only one socket. And ... what exactly does "only ever" mean in English? I guess "only ever" here means, don't use more than one socket at max power? I consulted my wife, who used to teach German at the University level, and she suggested that "only ever" might be a translation from the German "immer neur," and maybe that's a German idiom? In any event, in case I haven't mentioned it, there is only one socket.

Meanwhile, my River MAX battery says it accepts up to 10 amps from a car charger. I've only ever tried charging the battery from the car for about 10 minutes. So, who knows?

 

[gorj]

I plug in a 1000 Watt inverter all the time to my 12v. outlet at the rear to charge my Ego yard equipment when mobile. I also plug in my Makita chargers to charge my Makita batteries when mobile. Have had no issues. These chargers only consume a little over 200 watts each.

 

[cwerdna]

Hum I thought the fuse for the 12 volt outlet was 20 amp it is!

I don't plan on plugging the inverter into the 12 volt outlet inside the car. Yes, the limits on that and cars that I've encountered are quite low.

I'm talking about clamping to (at least on my Bolt and former Leaf), the positive terminal of the battery and a ground under the hood instead of directly to 12 volt's negative post.

Yeah, I've seen the verbiage in Tesla's manuals that JPWhite pointed out and have likely pointed it out on TeslaMotorsClub and other places.

From my experience with over 24 hour long PG&E PSPS and Bolt staying in READY mode w/inverter attached and not very high wattage continuous loads is that anything under the hood including the DC to DC converter doesn't really even get warm. It gets MUCH hotter there just from L2 charging, which is no surprise: 6+ kW of charging and conversion from AC to DC including stepping up the voltage vs. a load on the DC to DC converter of under a 100 watts to maybe 250 watts.

 

[JPWhite]

When the ID.4 comes in I plan to turn our 2011 LEAF into stationary storage. We will keep it for a few years until our grand daughter is old enough to drive. I've bought a 1500w pure sine wave inverter to power fridge and freezer. We don't lose power very often but have expensive biologic medications in the fridge. The cost to replace the meds at full retail would be as much as an ID.4. Worth protecting. As cwerdna points out the negative cable from the inverter should go to vehicle ground.

 

[Huey52]

Nice temporary repurpose plan. If that expensive to replace wouldn't a dedicated home generator be a better long term option? The popular Generac 13kW or 20kW for instance. We now have a 'pandemic-overflow' freezer in the garage and that was the tipping point for my own 13kW generator addition.
Perhaps when your LEAF again becomes a driving vehicle.

When the ID.4 comes in I plan to turn our 2011 LEAF into stationary storage. We will keep it for a few years until our grand daughter is old enough to drive. I've bought a 1500w pure sine wave inverter to power fridge and freezer. We don't lose power very often but have expensive biologic medications in the fridge. The cost to replace the meds at full retail would be as much as an ID.4. Worth protecting. As cwerdna points out the negative cable from the inverter should go to vehicle ground.

 

[JimmyVW]

as the leaf is chademo, you can use that port for true "vehicle to load", can't you not?
(at least i understood that Chademo supported bidrectional load by design)

 

[Neil]

Huey52 mentions aGenerac option, but it actually requires very little power to keep that fridge with the expensive meds cold. We have a very inexpensive (under $200) 1kw inverter generator, and it will provide more than sufficient power to keep a fridge going. In the summer, we can use it to keep 2 refrigerators going. In the winter, it's more than enought to keep our house warm, providing via one or two of our gas furnaces.

When the ID.4 comes in I plan to turn our 2011 LEAF into stationary storage. We will keep it for a few years until our grand daughter is old enough to drive. I've bought a 1500w pure sine wave inverter to power fridge and freezer. We don't lose power very often but have expensive biologic medications in the fridge. The cost to replace the meds at full retail would be as much as an ID.4. Worth protecting. As cwerdna points out the negative cable from the inverter should go to vehicle ground.

 

[JPWhite]

as the leaf is chademo, you can use that port for true "vehicle to load", can't you not?
(at least i understood that Chademo supported bidrectional load by design)

Not 2011 version. Not US version. Its a software thing Nissan have no desire to fix in the US. They don't sell that functionality here.

 

[JPWhite]

Nice temporary repurpose plan. If that expensive to replace wouldn't a dedicated home generator be a better long term option? The popular Generac 13kW or 20kW for instance. We now have a 'pandemic-overflow' freezer in the garage and that was the tipping point for my own 13kW generator addition.
Perhaps when your LEAF again becomes a driving vehicle.

We will only use the inverter when there is a power outage so the LEAF will remain derivable. As for a generator, I'd prefer a Tesla power-wall, but now you are forced to get a solar system too I don't think I will bother. The power is pretty reliable where we Iive. That ice storm is going to happen sooner or later, so we only need a temporary lash-up if and when that happens. A 1500w inverter is the cheapest solution for occasional use.

Once the LEAF is being driven by our grand daughter we can use the ID.4 in such an emergency,

 

[JPWhite]

Huey52 mentions aGenerac option, but it actually requires very little power to keep that fridge with the expensive meds cold. We have a very inexpensive (under $200) 1kw inverter generator, and it will provide more than sufficient power to keep a fridge going. In the summer, we can use it to keep 2 refrigerators going. In the winter, it's more than enought to keep our house warm, providing via one or two of our gas furnaces.

Agreed. The fridge we have in the garage is an older unit which uses up to 4.5 amps (just over 500 watts) and we have a separate freezer as well. So I opted for the 1.5kW inverter, which was just over $200. Don't want to push the inverter too close to its max output and have a thermal cutout.