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I gather there are people out there who have delayed installation of an EVSE since they figure they just get free charging from EA.
Who would change at EA chargers ONLY tho? That would degrade the battery quickly. Maybe they don't care?
🤷🏻‍♂️
 

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In doing so you’ve condemned yourself to a horrible BEV experience. You’re completely missing the point of BEV ownership. You’re supposed to spend zero time thinking about charging and zero time waiting for the car to charge. Because you plug in when you get home and wake up to a full tank every day.

Rapid charging is for long trips.
Totally agree with you...
 
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Who would change at EA chargers ONLY tho? That would degrade the battery quickly. Maybe they don't care?
🤷🏻‍♂️
Probably one of the following categories, or some combination thereof:
  • People who lease and have no investment in the long-term health of the battery (which may be one argument against buying a used EV coming off of a lease).
  • People who have no other place to charge—e.g. apartment and condo dwellers (though it's hard to imagine that most people don't at least have some public Level 2 charging available nearby).
  • People who can't get their minds out of the ICE fueling frame of mind — that you have to fuel a vehicle by going to a separate location and filling up, rather than plugging in overnight or while shopping or while eating at a restaurant and forgetting about it.
  • People who do more long road trips than local driving.
  • People who don't want to pay for charging at all (for those with the unlimited free EA charging).
 

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Probably one of the following categories, or some combination thereof:
  • People who lease and have no investment in the long-term health of the battery (which may be one argument against buying a used EV coming off of a lease).
  • People who have no other place to charge—e.g. apartment and condo dwellers (though it's hard to imagine that most people don't at least have some public Level 2 charging available nearby).
  • People who can't get their minds out of the ICE fueling frame of mind — that you have to fuel a vehicle by going to a separate location and filling up, rather than plugging in overnight or while shopping or while eating at a restaurant and forgetting about it.
  • People who do more long road trips than local driving.
  • People who don't want to pay for charging at all (for those with the unlimited free EA charging).
Some good points but people that fit the model you describe seem less interested in BEV vehicles in general, at least in what I've read and noticed with people I know. And those last two points, those are definitely not BEV people.
 

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VW ID.4 1st (picked up 3/19/21).
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I worry about congestion at EA chargers as more EVs are sold. I haven't seen waiting lines myself, but I have seen a noticeable increase in utilization at stations since I got my car.

Eventually the "free" part will run out - then you will be paying full price for charging at EA, and where I am, that's about 3x the rate I pay at home.
 

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In Southern California and my time of use rates are $0.19/kWh during off-peak hours which is 19 hours out of the day and $0.48/kWh during peak hours which are between 4pm and 9pm. I have my EVSE programed to start charging at 9:15 pm every night if plugged in. I get your point about the convenience of not sitting at an EA station to charge every few days but I think you're forgetting that some people aren't willing or able to pay for convenience. I'm doing pretty well financially so when I was putting gas in my car, I would often pay 30 cents more per gallon at times if it meant saving me 20 minutes. Someone who is on a tight budget might be more inclined to spend an extra 20 minutes waiting in line for costo gas to save a few dollars. This is no different imo.
I think mine is even more expensive and goes between $0.31 and $0.49/kWh.
 

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Who would change at EA chargers ONLY tho? That would degrade the battery quickly. Maybe they don't care?
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I do because the nearest EA charger is a 2 minute walk from my house. I am leasing the car with the intent to take good care of it and purchase it unless the technology feels outdated by the time my lease is up. All battery degradation info is speculation - there is little to no data related to performance degradation of the ID4 with the specific cells used in the ID4. So rather than speculate, I will let the data speak for itself in the long run.
 

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You are making a big assumption which is that everyone has similar conditions as you and if they do something different they must be doing it wrong. I do not have to make an errand twice as much and I find my time very valuable. But you don't know what my experience is with exclusive EA charging and how it may even be saving me time.

I live about 2 minutes walking from my nearest Albertsons where we shop for groceries every day pretty much. Guess what they have on the parking lot... EA fast chargers. I can go to the store, charge my car, walk home with my groceries (it's so close we always walk anyways). I can wait at home and do whatever I find valuable with my time and when I get a notification the car is charged I walk back to pick it up, and drive home in under 5 minutes. I have the flexibility to do it at my convenience and it doesn't take me any longer than going to a gas station.

Bet you didn't know that, and just 'assumed' I was wasting my time. Good chance many others have found creative solutions as well, that you have not considered. But before you tell people what they do doesn't make sense, remind yourself you may not know their situation in detail.
And you’ve convinced yourself this isn’t a complete PITA?
 

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What you describe sounds to me like a huge inconvenience! You


And you’ve convinced yourself this isn’t a complete PITA?
It sounds like you don't understand my convenience so let's just say you are right and I am wrong since that is what you want to read or hear anyways.
 

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Firstly that is some EXPENSIVE electricity! Do you have a choice of supplier of is it a monopoly?
Yeah its a monopoly. The only other option we have is to buy battery packs and solar to cut those costs some. The on peak rate is pretty high, the off peak isn't horrible.. I just try to avoid using big appliances or charging between 4pm and 9pm. Gas is pushing $5 a gallon here too.
 

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The flip side of it is that there are people that were charging to 100% even though they didn't really need to be. Just because they could, and just because it was free, and it was hogging a charger that someone else might have needed.
Nobody I know fills up a gas car to 80%. You should have thexright to charge to 100% with little or no concern of battery degradation
 

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Nobody I know fills up a gas car to 80%. You should have thexright to charge to 100% with little or no concern of battery degradation
I also have trouble with the language that it is 'hogging a charger' because 'someone else may need it'. We're not talking about life or death here. It's first come first serve. Every owner charges their car however they like to whichever SOC they like with whatever method they like. Somehow there are people that seem to want to create 'moral' laws and have a need to force others to comply with their made-up beliefs and practices when in reality, we just want to use the product we bought with the service that was included. Let VW tell us what the product can and can not do and which service we can and can not use but we don't need any sanctimonious strangers force their rules on others.
 

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People who live in apartments should have access to AC charging either overnight or at work.
I feel it is time for me to comment on your posts in this thread. You have given many reasons why people should charge at home daily and not use the free charging that VW provided. Those are your reasons. Many of us have our own reasons for charging at EA and taking advantage of the free charging we purchased with the vehicle. My wife and I sometimes shop while charging. Sometimes I walk in an area I like to walk in while charging. My wife likes to charge before work sometimes to plan her day without being interrupted by coworkers. Sometimes we charge while having a meal at a nearby restaurant. I don't have a problem adding a few kW with my JuiceBox when necessary, but we will continue to use EA for the lion's share of our charging and I will not apologize for it.
 

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Probably one of the following categories, or some combination thereof:
  • People who lease and have no investment in the long-term health of the battery (which may be one argument against buying a used EV coming off of a lease).
  • People who have no other place to charge—e.g. apartment and condo dwellers (though it's hard to imagine that most people don't at least have some public Level 2 charging available nearby).
  • People who can't get their minds out of the ICE fueling frame of mind — that you have to fuel a vehicle by going to a separate location and filling up, rather than plugging in overnight or while shopping or while eating at a restaurant and forgetting about it.
  • People who do more long road trips than local driving.
  • People who don't want to pay for charging at all (for those with the unlimited free EA charging).
I'm the last one, at least for the first 3 years. Otherwise I would even go for EV as of now.
 

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Who would change at EA chargers ONLY tho? That would degrade the battery quickly. Maybe they don't care?
🤷🏻‍♂️
Technology might evolve before it degrading. Just like people get a new cellphone every 2 years now. People careless about the battery of cellphone now.
 

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I do because the nearest EA charger is a 2 minute walk from my house. I am leasing the car with the intent to take good care of it and purchase it unless the technology feels outdated by the time my lease is up. All battery degradation info is speculation - there is little to no data related to performance degradation of the ID4 with the specific cells used in the ID4. So rather than speculate, I will let the data speak for itself in the long run.
Yep. It's why I'm also thinking to do a lease to buy option other than finance. You probably pay about 1k more in the end, but you have the freedom if the car value drops more than predicted.

PS, Tesla data shows about 1% per year degradation on battery. With ICE getting old (spark plug, carbon build up, etc), the MPG would drop as well, especially with the long battery warranty. So I don't really worry that much.
 

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Yep. It's why I'm also thinking to do a lease to buy option other than finance. You probably pay about 1k more in the end, but you have the freedom if the car value drops more than predicted.

PS, Tesla data shows about 1% per year degradation
They claimed the 2021 Model 3s they fitted with batteries made in 2017 might have up to 12% loss of original capacity right from the get go.
 

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They claimed the 2021 Model 3s they fitted with batteries made in 2017 might have up to 12% loss of original capacity right from the get go.
But that is because the batteries were shelved for the entire time so the degradation is different than for a battery that is being used.
 
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Since I’m “one” of those that hog that EA chargers, I thought I would tell you why I’m doing it:
  • Recently sold our single family house (which I had a level 2 charger installed at) and moved. Our new house is an urban townhouse (Seattle) and while we have a parking space, it’s going to take a good amount of work to get a level 2 charger installed. Of course we have a street facing unit and the parking spot is about 150 feet away. The electrician and contractors are a few months out. Can’t easily run a level 1 charger because of the length and pedestrian paths involved.
  • No nearby (walkable) level 2 chargers from my house.
  • Almost all of my trips are 2 - 3 hour drives. I try to use a level 1 charger when I get to my destination to add some power.
  • I usually use EA to 70-80% and typically takes about 45 minutes to an hour. I did power up to 97% on my last trip because of the very cold and nasty weather.
Without EA, my Id.4 would be unusable right now. Yes, using EA is a total pain, but it is necessary for me right now. My last EV (leased I Pace) I used level 2 almost exclusively, but without the EA deal I probably would have continued to be car free until I could get a Tesla (trust me riding the ferry and multiple buses to/from a rural area and Seattle really sucks). So, yes, I care about my battery, but it isn’t so easy to have a level 2 charger readily available everywhere.
 
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