[LouisM]

My view is that free charging of any kind is a nice perk, and I personally feel fortunate to have this perk in any form, even a limited one. I don’t understand the sense of entitlement that leads a person to be mad about getting something for free, even if it does come with limitations.

Practically speaking, once the 30 free minutes expire, why not just pay for whatever extra you need and be thankful for the free electrons? VW didn’t have to offer any free charging at all, btw, but I can only imagine the stink that would’ve caused. Sigh…

VW did have to offer free charging I believe it was part of the settlement they had with the US government over the diesel cars emission fraud issue they had. Now they are trying to find loop holes out of the free charging.

 

[Manybees]

VW did have to offer free charging I believe it was part of the settlement they had with the US government over the diesel cars emission fraud issue they had.

I know that they had to set up and fund Electrify America and that they paid out a lot of money to individual states as part of the settlement. But I can't find any information about them being obligated to offer free charging for their EVs. If you have it handy, can you post a link to your source for this info? I can't find similar info in this Wikipedia article (or anywhere else):

Volkswagen emissions scandal - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[thomas_y3]

I guess I wouldn't mind this so much if we can consistently get close to the max charging rate while using DCFC. Still felt a bit of bait-n-switch-ish here since most of us ordered MY21.

 

[Nai3t]

I guess I wouldn't mind this so much if we can consistently get close to the max charging rate while using DCFC. Still felt a bit of bait-n-switch-ish here since most of us ordered MY21.

If the US update includes what they'll roll out in Europe with Ionity, we should see battery warming enroute to DCFC in order to change at high rate. I'm hopeful this is all squared away by next winter. All the technology is on our 2021 models to do exactly what we're asking, we just need the software to make it so.

 

[ericy]

If the US update includes what they'll roll out in Europe with Ionity, we should see battery warming enroute to DCFC in order to change at high rate. I'm hopeful this is all squared away by next winter. All the technology is on our 2021 models to do exactly what we're asking, we just need the software to make it so.

It is a huge shame that the update won't be out in time for the current winter.

 

[Nai3t]

@ericy agree, and VW blew a big chance when the AWD became available and got a second round of press. Nobody ever gets a second chance like that. Imagine they had rolled out a successful OTA in the US, if only to a select group of early volunteers, even if it was the meaningless 2.3, just to have that cred under their belt. Imagine if they threw in just one bone, like auto hold which has been present in Europe since jump, so shouldn't have been complicated. It would be a feather in their cap even if 99% of us remained stuck where we are now, waiting for 3.0.

I'm 100% positive that VW's software challenges are real, are burdensome, and that nothing about this delay is contrived. My only beef is VOA's lack of respect for their customers whom they seem to believe are unworthy of even basic communication.

 

[ericy]

I'm 100% positive that VW's software challenges are real, are burdensome, and that nothing about this delay is contrived. My only beef is VOA's lack of respect for their customers with whom they seem to believe are unworthy of communication.

Reading between the lines, the 2.3 update in Europe was kind of klunky and subject to weird failures that were causing support problems. Given that it didn't even fix all that much, I think they just decided to hit pause and fix things for real in 3.0.

 

[scottftl1]

"HUGE MISTAKE!" I don't know 'bout that, I'd say we have to let the chips fall before we can call it that. With the time restriction, VW is putting the ID.4 in company with Polestar, the Mercedes EQS, the Porsche Taycan, and Hyundai's Ioniq 5, all who have similarly structured free charging / 30 minute limits. I suppose we could follow their respective forums to get a glimpse of what frustrations are being expressed. But calling the revised perk a failure at this point seems premature. New buyers will probably look at it as icing on the cake.

From what I've heard, the 2022 models with the 3.0 update will be charging faster, and the 5-80% is only supposed to take 31 minutes. Personally, I'm rarely at EA for more than 30 minutes anyways, I like to keep my battery between 20-80% SOC. It shouldn't be that big of a deal for buyers getting the 2022 model year, and like so many have stated, it's FREE.

 

[Nai3t]

The 2021 is supposed to get the same update. But those rates are never going to be achieved in winter until VW kicks down the software to proactively warm the battery. Hopeful we'll all get that all together.

 

[Dougie01]

Santa Claus brought my wife a new electric stove. Guess what kind of an outlet it takes: Same 50 amp outlet as a car charger.

I think the focus on home charging needs to be on apartments. At least in a condo you can get onto the board and try to convince them that there's money to be made in chargers. And perhaps head off enforcement of the "no extension cords run across the sidewalk" rule.

 

[CiTY HuNTeR]

Santa Claus brought my wife a new electric stove. Guess what kind of an outlet it takes: Same 50 amp outlet as a car charger.

I think the focus on home charging needs to be on apartments. At least in a condo you can get onto the board and try to convince them that there's money to be made in chargers. And perhaps head off enforcement of the "no extension cords run across the sidewalk" rule.

It is actually where the 50amp power for EV charger was pulled for most houses, from the stove. Your dryer usually only use 30 amp.

 

[Nai3t]

Folks might go the 30 amp route because often the dryer is in the garage, and that's a conveniently located hookup to share.

You're saying you know people who plug their EVSE into their oven receptacle?

 

[CiTY HuNTeR]

Folks might go the 30 amp route because often the dryer is in the garage, and that's a conveniently located hookup to share.

You're saying you know people who plug their EVSE into their oven receptacle?

They pull power from the breaker box in garage, so really doesn't matter where your dryer or stove is at.

 

[Spin]

Santa Claus brought my wife a new electric stove.

I'm glad he didn't bring my wife a stove. She would have been pissed!!

 

[Nai3t]

They pull power from the breaker box in garage, so really doesn't matter where your dryer or stove is at.

Well of course power comes from the breaker box, where else is it going to come from? Not "from the stove."

The dryer receptacle is relevant because it can be shared in a pinch. That's the idea behind Dryer Buddy and Splitvolt, share the dryer circuit for car charging, no wiring required — but at the expense of the dryer being unavailable while the car is being charged.

The electric range circuit can't be shared this way. The range gets a dedicated circuit, and the EVSE gets a dedicated circuit. I mean, sure, one could be rigged up to be shared similar to the dryer circuit, but that's undoubtedly going to piss some folks off when the oven becomes unavailable and there's a charging cord running through the kitchen.

 

[Spin]

. I mean, sure, one could be rigged up to be shared similar to the dryer circuit, but that's undoubtedly going to piss some folks off when the oven becomes unavailable and there's a charging cord running through the kitchen.

It might work for people that have their stoves in the garage!

 

[p7wang]

It might work for people that have their stoves in the garage!

You laugh, but one of my neighbor has a propane stove in the garage.

 

[Dougie01]

I didn't mean to stir up so much discussion about stoves! But:

• We had a house with a 60 amp service and a relay that could switch between stove and dryer. Not unusual in older houses.
• Plenty of people in New England, particularly in the Italian and Portuguese communities, have "show" stoves in their kitchens that are never turned on, and "cooking" stoves in the basement.
• When you have a household battery in your garage, all the old amperage calculations have to be re-done.

Bottom line is that as we move towards electrification of everything in our houses, the 200 amp service of today is not going to be enough. Consider a typical three-stall garage in houses today with an RV, a pickup, and a big sedan--all electric--plus a motorcycle. And then that big household battery, and solar panels, and a heat pump, not to mention "granny flats" (tiny houses in the back yards) with another set of appliances... Maybe 400 amps should be the standard service connection going forward?

 

[Nai3t]

... Maybe 400 amps should be the standard service connection going forward?

Maybe, maybe not. There already exists a complete calculation process to determine the appropriate level of electrical service. What is the square footage of the house? What are the electrical demands vs. gas for cooking, heating, water heating, and laundry? What are the accessory loads such as hot tubs, pools, air conditioners?

I mean to say, all of this stuff is in the calculation to begin with, the car(s) being just another line item and — unlike most of the others — can be relied upon to occur overnight when much of the other electrical demand is low. 400 amps is truly a huge amount of electricity to consume all in one gulp, and comes at the cost of pricy oversized conductors and huge service panels.

 

[Dougie01]

400 amps is truly a huge amount of electricity to consume all in one gulp, and comes at the cost of pricy oversized conductors and huge service panels.

That's exactly what my electrician told me in 1985 when I updated my 60 amp service to 200!