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I think it said date of signing for the "must be made in North America" piece.

Dave
Yeah, but the whole bill mentions starting 1/1/2023 for the new credit. It doesn’t say the old credit would change based on the made in America clause. Meaning if you take delivery before the old credit starts on 1/1/23 German cars should still be good
 

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I think whether my 2022 gets a tax credit is completely dependent on when the bill becomes effective.

I think whether my 2023 gets a tax rebate depends on whether the very strict limits on battery components go into effect right away.

Yikes, what a mess.

Dave
 
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Yeah, but the whole bill mentions starting 1/1/2023 for the new credit. It doesn’t say the old credit would change based on the made in America clause. Meaning if you take delivery before the old credit starts on 1/1/23 German cars should still be good
I sincerely hope you are right. As someone who currently has a car on a boat set to arrive before 1/1/23 😬
 

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I think whether my 2022 gets a tax credit is completely dependent on when the bill becomes effective.

I think whether my 2023 gets a tax rebate depends on whether the very strict limits on battery components go into effect right away.

Yikes, what a mess.

Dave
I read that the bill’s authors will publish a new draft tomorrow. It’ll include revisions for Kyrsten Sinema. Who knows what else will get changed.
 

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FWIW (someone from reddit)

'We had our tax attorney look at this earlier today since he’s on retainer for our business. He said that our deposit will meet the requirement for the “written binding contract” described in the transition clause.

We had assumed that we needed a contract with the dealership but it doesn’t look like we do".
 

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FWIW (someone from reddit)

'We had our tax attorney look at this earlier today since he’s on retainer for our business. He said that our deposit will meet the requirement for the “written binding contract” described in the transition clause.

We had assumed that we needed a contract with the dealership but it doesn’t look like we do".
Hopefully this is accurate!
 

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So we have two different takes on this. If this is true, then any US made MY23 ID.4s delivered this year will qualify as well. But sucks for anyone who has a non-US made ordered vehicle coming in.
Nah, it really sucks for the dealers that are stuck with VW 2022 models that don't qualify for the rebate. Cause no one that isn't totally desperate for a vehicle... wouldn't just cancel the deposit and ask for a refund.
 

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some info per each sate
and more as VW estimates the current rebate should go to end 2023
The 2022 ID.4 is not on the IRS list
That is strange. Clearly the People car people need to tell the IRS it exists as the 2022 has been arriving everywhere as mine did earlier in July.
Anyone have info on this?
 

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FWIW (someone from reddit)

'We had our tax attorney look at this earlier today since he’s on retainer for our business. He said that our deposit will meet the requirement for the “written binding contract” described in the transition clause.

We had assumed that we needed a contract with the dealership but it doesn’t look like we do".
I doubt this is true. The final sale is a contract between consumer and the dealership; any deposit we put down now doesn't even guarantee the price so how could it possibly be binding?
 

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I doubt this is true. The final sale is a contract between consumer and the dealership; any deposit we put down now doesn't even guarantee the price so how could it possibly be binding?
IANAL, but their attorney makes some sense. A binding agreement is any legally enforceable agreement. A refundable deposit is legally enforceable since we can take VW or the dealer to court if they do not refund the deposit.
 

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What is the definition of "final assembly"? If you install a software update at the port in Houston, does that count? Or is it a regulatory thing with stickers on the car and entries in the paperwork somewhere that already say "final assembly in Germany."
The 2023s are supposed to come from Chattanooga, no? So unless those are ‘supplemented’ with units from Germany, things should be ok.
 

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Do we have any source of information about the 2023 TN ID.4’s battery / mineral processing situation? I know that the pack is assembled by SKI in Georgia, but do they build it out of 90% Chinese cells/minerals? What are the chances that the ID.4 pack doesn’t meet the 2023 40%-50% north America or free trade countries sourcing and processing requirement?
 

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IANAL and please interpret this as you think best, but I did a search for 'binding' and 'transition rule' and came across an old post from 2018 that I think is relevant to the 'transition rule' in the Inflation Reduction Act.

The first key point was that the IRS issued guidance on 'written binding contracts' (and material modifications). The IRS specifically wrote about some of the items that a company must consider in evaluating whether an agreement constitutes a 'written binding contract'.

The second key point was that one of the main evaluation points was the 'enforceability under applicable law' section. That section had a line that said, "In addition, the obligation will be considered binding solely to the extent of the amount stated in the contract. Any payment in excess of the legally obligatory amount (other than due to the application of a reasonable interest rate or investment returns) may not be grandfathered."

Original post:
Article the post links to: IRS Issues Key Guidance on Amended Code Section 162(m)

So all this to say, I think the IRS may have to issue guidance around this issue if it doesn't get modified before the Act is signed (if the Act does indeed ever get signed).

And I'm hoping that there's similar guidance around what will be considered binding and that it’s solely based around the 'price' (i.e., the amount stated in the contract) that was agreed upon by all parties involved.

Hopefully, the "written binding contract to purchase" part of the transition rule is related to ensuring that the amount stated in the contract can't be modified later on.

Again, IANAL but the reading of a previous transition rule certainly helped me feel better about what the current transition rule might be referring to.

(p.s. - I'm not a regular on this site but I've been searching multiple enthusiast sites to get information and felt I should share what I've found since I often benefit a lot from the conversations that have already been ongoing.)
 

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I often see people talking about the "old" and the "new" credit and wondering how the final assembly rule can be in effect before the "new" credit is in effect.

Fundamental question: Is there a "new" credit at all? Isn't the bill just listing lots of modifications of the existing credit, which can have different effective dates?
 

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I often see people talking about the "old" and the "new" credit and wondering how the final assembly rule can be in effect before the "new" credit is in effect.

Fundamental question: Is there a "new" credit at all? Isn't the bill just listing lots of modifications of the existing credit, which can have different effective dates?
My reading of the bill text says that you are correct. There is only one credit, the new bill modifies the clauses of the existing credit to remove some limits, add some others, the various changes seem to potentially have different effective dates written into their clauses. There is a transition clause that lets you backdate the "vehicle put into service date" under certain circumstances to the date of signing a purchase agreement. The "put in service date" seems to be the one that determines which "version" of the law applies to the purchase.
 

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John Bozzella, heads of the Alliance for Automotive Innovation that represents General Motors, Toyota Motor and Ford Motor among others, said a July 27 proposal by Senators Chuck Schumer and Joe Manchin would make 70% of 72 U.S. electric, plug-in hybrid and fuel-cell EVs ineligible upon passage. None would qualify for the full credit when additional sourcing requirements go into effect," he said. From:
 

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Do we have any source of information about the 2023 TN ID.4’s battery / mineral processing situation? I know that the pack is assembled by SKI in Georgia, but do they build it out of 90% Chinese cells/minerals? What are the chances that the ID.4 pack doesn’t meet the 2023 40%-50% north America or free trade countries sourcing and processing requirement?
Unfortunately, I think there is a fair chance it won't qualify for the minerals "extracting and processing" portion of the Credit. I hope I'm wrong, but I suspect I'm not.

There have been multiple articles expressing concern about this minerals requirement lessening the amount of credit EVs will qualify for in the early years of this, until supply chains can be changed.

I hope they will do an 11th hour lengthening of the transition period for that half of the Credit.

I'm guessing the battery plant in the US might qualify it for the other half of the Credit.

Dave
 

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One thing that makes the decision to order a new one vs. take a model ordered from Germany is this.....

The price of the comparable model that I ordered is now more expensive (by over 4k in my comparison). Also, in Oregon I am elligible for an incentive of $2500 if the vehicle is under 50k (mine is barely).

Here is a comparison of what I have now (with and without credits), vs. a 2023 with credits.

NOW
PP 49,330
Federal credit (7500)
Oregon Credit (2500)
"Effective" price 39,330 (with federal)
"Effective" price (without federal but with Oregon ) 46,830

2023 model
PP 54,395
Federal Credit (7500)
Oregon Credit (0) N/A over 50k
"Effective "price with federal 46,895

As you can see, the price comes out almost the same. Yes, the new one has some new features. But worth it? Not sure......
Fellow Oregonian here. I think we're good on the Oregon rebate (it isn't a tax credit) with any ID.4, even the most expensive trim levels. It's kind of an interesting way to do a price cap, but a car model just has to have a base model under $50k for the whole model lineup to qualify. So the Tesla Model 3 qualifies, while the Model S does not.

These documents should make things a little clearer:
 

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Here's the latest draft of the bill from Aug 3 (start at page 1482). I don't know if this is what the Senate is actually voting on today. But BIG changes from my very limited ability of interpreting this very confusing text.
  • $7500 refundable tax credit for EVs
  • Another $4500 for union plants
  • Domestic battery content is an extra $500 (and no mention of minerals anymore)
  • Final assembly in North America only applies in 2027
  • MSRP limits are the same of $55k for cars and $80k for SUVs, vans, etc.
  • Income limits are much higher now at $250k for single and $500k for joint
 
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