[aboyle]

Under the draft legislation, after the bill is signed until the end of 2022, the current credit rules still apply (so manufactures that are out of credits are still out, it’s a credit not a rebate, current income caps still apply) but it also must have final assembly in North America. Think that pretty much leaves Ford and Rivian for companies getting the credit for the rest of ‘22, but I may be wrong on that. Then the rest of the rules (battery composition, lower income caps, no manufacturer caps) kick in 1/1/23. So hopefully the wording changes!

I believe the made in North America clause only applies to the transition clause that protects people if they receive their car in 2023 after buying in 2022. I think if you receive your car in 2022 then you’ll still be under the old tax credit until it switches over 1/1/2023

 

[WBF25]

I believe the made in North America clause only applies to the transition clause that protects people if they receive their car in 2023 after buying in 2022. I think if you receive your car in 2022 then you’ll still be under the old tax credit until it switches over 1/1/2023

Hmmm, I interpreted it differently, but then again I have no experience trying to interpret legislative jargon. That would make more sense though, so hopefully you’re right!!

 

[aboyle]

Hmmm, I interpreted it differently, but then again I have no experience trying to interpret legislative jargon. That would make more sense though, so hopefully you’re right!!

Haha, I hope I’m right too!!

 

[Lunkhead]

some info per each sate

Here's Every State's EV Charging Plan. The National Charging Network Is Happening!

The Bipartisan Infrastructure Law allocates $7.5 billion for a national charging network. Here's how states plan to spend the money.

joinyaa.com

and more as VW estimates the current rebate should go to end 2023

IRC 30D New Qualified Plug-In Electric Drive Motor Vehicle Credit | Internal Revenue Service

Review the IRS credit for Qualified Plug-in Electric Drive Motor Vehicles, including passenger vehicles and light trucks, and a qualified vehicle index.

www.irs.gov

 

[daverp]

That does not make sense. So between the day the president signs the bill and Dec 31, 2022 - there is no tax credit at all? They should just say effective date is 01-Jan-2023 and be done with it. Looks like Sinema only read the corporate tax sections because her donors were pushing her.

I don't think so, in part this is so confusing because of how they have to pass the bill as a budget reconciliation, they are not writing a whole new law but instead making a bunch of changes to existing. The law changes the wording of existing laws, some of those kick it at X date, some are when signed, some after the secretary issues guidance. The way everything is written, the old law as written would apply until the criteria are met so there should not be a period of no credits at all.

 

[id4cheetah]

If my partner and I both have our names on the title when we take delivery, can I take full advantage of the tax credit if they are over the income limit but I am not?

 

[WBF25]

If my partner and I both have our names on the title when we take delivery, can I take full advantage of the tax credit if they are over the income limit but I am not?

Depends on how you file I think.

 

[daverp]

If my partner and I both have our names on the title when we take delivery, can I take full advantage of the tax credit if they are over the income limit but I am not?

The income limits stipulate nothing more than Single filer and married filling jointly. Nothing in the bill says anything at all about how the car has to be titled.

 

[billh96007]

A "refundable deposit" might not be viewed as a "binding contract". I think we'll be hosed if we take a German built 2022 after the effective date of the Bill.

Dave

It looks like you are correct. That is likely to make some 2022 models available for sale, and may lower the value of them. The 2023 looks like it has advantages over the 2022, and that plus the tax credit is going to make it more desirable. VW has to be aware of this.

 

[sbt007]

Under the draft legislation, after the bill is signed until the end of 2022, the current credit rules still apply (so manufactures that are out of credits are still out, it’s a credit not a rebate, current income caps still apply) but it also must have final assembly in North America. Think that pretty much leaves Ford and Rivian for companies getting the credit for the rest of ‘22, but I may be wrong on that. Then the rest of the rules (battery composition, lower income caps, no manufacturer caps) kick in 1/1/23. So hopefully the wording changes!

So we have two different takes on this. If this is true, then any US made MY23 ID.4s delivered this year will qualify as well. But sucks for anyone who has a non-US made ordered vehicle coming in.

 

[daverp]

So we have two different takes on this. If this is true, then any US made MY23 ID.4s delivered this year will qualify as well. But sucks for anyone who has a non-US made ordered vehicle coming in.

My22, MY23, Model year 2022 , Model Year 2023 are nothing but marketing terms, they don't mean anything as far as this law in concerned. The manufacture date is on a plate in the car's door. All cars are required to be stamped with the manufacture date by law, that does not always correspond with the model year. The in service date is the titled date. So if car is is delivered to a dealer on December 31st 2022 but not sold to the customer until January 1st 2023, the in service date would be 2023.

 

[rbdavis808]

I don't think so, in part this is so confusing because of how they have to pass the bill as a budget reconciliation, they are not writing a whole new law but instead making a bunch of changes to existing. The law changes the wording of existing laws, some of those kick it at X date, some are when signed, some after the secretary issues guidance. The way everything is written, the old law as written would apply until the criteria are met so there should not be a period of no credits at all.

I (speaking wholly as a non-expert) think this is basically correct -- there is not any period of time when there is 'no credit', rather, different parts of the bill come into effect at different times, mostly either (i) the date of enactment, which I understand to be the date the bill is signed (my guess is not in the next couple of weeks but very likely early enough to impact the election), or (ii) 1/1/23.

My understanding is that N. American assembly is required beginning on the date of enactment. If you are buying a vehicle impacted by this requirement and are counting on the $7500 credit, read the bill for yourself and discuss the issue with a qualified tax advisor (not that there will be many who understand this well). Read the material in this forum and elsewhere but do not put 100% faith in anything written anywhere other than within the actual bill (including this post and especially the unfortunately large amount of wishful thinking that's being shared). Buy a foreign-made car after the date of enactment only if you are prepared to lose your $7500 if it comes to that.

 

[sbt007]

My22, MY23, Model year 2022 , Model Year 2023 are nothing but marketing terms, they don't mean anything as far as this law in concerned. The manufacture date is on a plate in the car's door. All cars are required to be stamped with the manufacture date by law, that does not always correspond with the model year. The in service date is the titled date. So if car is is delivered to a dealer on December 31st 2022 but not sold to the customer until January 1st 2023, the in service date would be 2023.

Not sure sure what you are saying. MY22 vs MY23 is important to mention, because only MY23 is being made in the US. The rest of what you said is correct of course but no point even looking at the manufacture date or in-service date of a MY22 if the stricter interpretation turns out be the right one.

 

[sbt007]

I (speaking wholly as a non-expert) think this is basically correct -- there is not any period of time when there is 'no credit', rather, different parts of the bill come into effect at different times, mostly either (i) the date of enactment, which I understand to be the date the bill is signed (my guess is not in the next couple of weeks but very likely early enough to impact the election), or (ii) 1/1/23.

My understanding is that N. American assembly is required beginning on the date of enactment. If you are buying a vehicle impacted by this requirement and are counting on the $7500 credit, read the bill for yourself and discuss the issue with a qualified tax advisor (not that there will be many who understand this well). Read the material in this forum and elsewhere but do not put 100% faith in anything written anywhere other than within the actual bill (including this post and especially the unfortunately large amount of wishful thinking that's being shared). Buy a foreign-made car after the date of enactment only if you are prepared to lose your $7500 if it comes to that.

Agree. If I was buying a MY2022 after this was enacted, I would just lease and take the 7500 off if VW still provided it at that time. No talking to the qualified tax advisor. And if VW stops passing the credit at that time for leases - that is already a bad sign.

 

[wildpitcher]

My22, MY23, Model year 2022 , Model Year 2023 are nothing but marketing terms, they don't mean anything as far as this law in concerned. The manufacture date is on a plate in the car's door. All cars are required to be stamped with the manufacture date by law, that does not always correspond with the model year. The in service date is the titled date. So if car is is delivered to a dealer on December 31st 2022 but not sold to the customer until January 1st 2023, the in service date would be 2023.

It isn't the date built that is the issue. It is the LOCATION of final assembly.

Dave

 

[wildpitcher]

Agree. I was buying a MY2022 after this was enacted, I would just lease and take the 7500 off if VW still provided it at that time. No talking to the qualified tax advisor. And if VW stops passing the credit at that time for leases - that is already a bad sign.

There will be no credit for VW to pass through on German cars after the new bill is signed.

Dave

 

[sbt007]

There will be no credit for VW to pass through on German cars after the new bill is signed.

Dave

Most likely. But we will know once the bill does get passed and what the final text is.

 

[the ob]

There will be no credit for VW to pass through on German cars after the new bill is signed.

Dave

assuming the language is the same and they don't specifically state a starting date (like 1/1/23).

 

[wildpitcher]

assuming the language is the same and they don't specifically state a starting date (like 1/1/23).

I think it said date of signing for the "must be made in North America" piece.

Dave

 

[the ob]

One thing that makes the decision to order a new one vs. take a model ordered from Germany is this.....

The price of the comparable model that I ordered is now more expensive (by over 4k in my comparison). Also, in Oregon I am elligible for an incentive of $2500 if the vehicle is under 50k (mine is barely).

Here is a comparison of what I have now (with and without credits), vs. a 2023 with credits.

NOW
PP 49,330
Federal credit (7500)
Oregon Credit (2500)
"Effective" price 39,330 (with federal)
"Effective" price (without federal but with Oregon ) 46,830

2023 model
PP 54,395
Federal Credit (7500)
Oregon Credit (0) N/A over 50k
"Effective "price with federal 46,895

As you can see, the price comes out almost the same. Yes, the new one has some new features. But worth it? Not sure......