[Mrau]

ooking at the clippercreek HCS 50 9.6 kw output
Or the HCS 60

Both of these are very good units. The HCS-60 must be hardwired in to a 60 amp circuit. The HCS-50 can be hardwired to 50 amp circuit or ordered with a 14-50 plug. Seems like most people have a EVSE connected to a 50 amp circuit or less, and they are happy with their setup.

If your electrical panel is robust, if you're going to hardwire it in, and if cost is not a big concern then the HCS-60 is a good choice. However, you will most likely not notice a difference with either one for overnight charging. Both will easily have you car charged up by the morning.

 

[ga2500ev]

Just got ID4 2023 pro s rear wheel drive
Looking at the clippercreek HCS 50 9.6 kw output
Or the HCS 60 power output 11.2 KW
Any help here would be appreciated...

New EV owners tend to ascribe outsized importance to the EVSE. As stated elsewhere in this thread, it is essentially a safety extension cord, though a high powered one. And while higher power offers flexibility in some certain situations, typically only a minimal amount of power is delivered through it daily.

So, just for a moment, put a pin on which unit to get and come back and tell us a bit about your environment:

1. What is your daily comment mileage?
2. What type of electrical plug/circuit do you have in place to support the EVSE? Is it already installed?
3. What type of DCFC support do you have from Electrify America nearby?

Just as an example, we are a three EV household now, with an 2021 ID4 Pro S RWD, A Chevy Bolt, and a FIAT 500e. Our current charging infrastructure is the FIAT being charged via a 120V L1, and the other two sharing a 22.5 amp L2 plugged into a dryer outlet. Charging all three for daily commutes is no problem at all.

So, don't go overboard. Figure out your environment and needs, then make some decisions about EVSE infrastructure. I always suggest that new EV owners start with L1 and just get a feel for how charging goes for a couple of weeks or a month. I did this with the 500e. It's still charging daily on 120V going on 6 years later. Often it dispels the notion that a ultra high powered L2 is a requirement.

Only two exceptions to this. If one can get a rebate from the local power company for a particular unit, take advantage of it. Also higher powered chargers are useful in short window off peak electricity situations as it saves money on a daily basis charging in the short window.

In short, setting up a EVSE is the final step of the process, not the first.

ga2500ev

 

[Huey52]

In short, setting up a EVSE is the final step of the process, not the first.

To take advantage of a tax deduction I actually installed my EVSE and App-activated in November of 2020 and thereafter took delivery of my ID.4 in March 2021. Not always the last step.

 

[Don]

If you have a TOU electric plan, you’ll have to use the ID.4’s in-car scheduling to take advantage of the reduced rates, though.

. . . . and that is a scary thought . . .

There are several problem free 'smart' EVSE's out there. Most of the problems you read about are just 1 or 2 brands

 

[Don]

New EV owners tend to ascribe outsized importance to the EVSE. As stated elsewhere in this thread, it is essentially a safety extension cord, though a high powered one. And while higher power offers flexibility in some certain situations, typically only a minimal amount of power is delivered through it daily.

So, just for a moment, put a pin on which unit to get and come back and tell us a bit about your environment:

1. What is your daily comment mileage?
2. What type of electrical plug/circuit do you have in place to support the EVSE? Is it already installed?
3. What type of DCFC support do you have from Electrify America nearby?

So, don't go overboard. Figure out your environment and needs, then make some decisions about EVSE infrastructure. I always suggest that new EV owners start with L1 and just get a feel for how charging goes for a couple of weeks or a month. I did this with the 500e. It's still charging daily on 120V going on 6 years later. Often it dispels the notion that a ultra high powered L2 is a requirement.

I wholeheartedly agree. It seems every person new to their first EV mistakenly thinks they need the highest power EVSE money can buy. I'm 10 years into my 3rd EV and since the ID.4 has the biggest battery I've even had, I finally broke down and bought a 32 amp EVSE, which can be installed using fairly cheap 8/2 wire. I never actually use 32 amps though. The first year I charged at 24 amps (which causes the car's cooling system to run constantly) until I realized that for the time allotted and the Kw's I needed, 24 amps was more than I really needed, so I set my EVSE to 16 amps and that's what I've been using for about the last 6 months. The car is always charged to the point I choose well before I need it in the morning

 

[Nai3t]

Don't fault me for correcting, but the L1, and L2 devices are not chargers. They are EVSE, which stands for Electric Vehicle Supply Equipment. (They're fancy extension cords.) The Charger is in the car. Don't shoot the messenger.

While I agree with you, language evolves, and "charger" it is, even if technically incorrect.

Same can be said for phones BTW, the wall wart is just a transformer – the charger is built into the phone.

 

[Nycturne]

Agreed with the other statements that you don’t necessarily have to go big/fast on the EVSE. I went with a 40A EVSE on a 50A branch circuit because we needed to pull a new circuit to get a circuit close enough to the driveway to be any use. But it’s overkill. I spend about 1-2 hrs of charging per day of driving, and it’s nice, but a 32A or even 24A unit would do just as well for my 40mi commute. And many dryer outlets can get you 24A.

I’d still do a 50A circuit again if I had to do it over, but more because if we become a two EV household at some point, we don’t need to pull a second circuit. We can either share a faster EVSE and charge every other day, or load share between two EVSEs on the circuit.

 

[Froggy]

I had to run nearly 60 feet of wire which isn’t cheap. Thus I opted for a 50 amp circuit ( 40 amp EVSE, mustn’t say charger) hard wired installation. Most of the time 32 amp would do and be cheaper. However I live in a hurricane zone and have elderly parents a 90 mile drive inland. I have already been called to the emergency room once this fall. Being able to top off quickly while I packed a few essentials and put out extra water and food for the dog was a blessing. No CCS on the other end though there is a Supercharger 🤬 so I spent 2 hours feeding ducks at the Civic Center and using their 16 amp level 2. Maybe it was a shared 24?

 

[Nai3t]

My situation is similar: about a 60' run, and while maxing it out would have been prudent, 50 amp circuit / 40 amp EVSE was a generous compromise.

In most charging scenarios, 24 or even 16 amps would have been sufficient, but as a 2-EV household there are times when I need and appreciate the higher rate (and my choice of 3 different CCS installations are within about a mile away, just in case). My i3 maxes out at 32, and 40 is close enough to max with the VW that I'm not missing it, but I'll come to regret this decision in the future.

 

[mongo]

By the time a charger is installed there are several factors in the cost. The rate capability of the charger ends up as a small percentage of the total bill. A 48A charger, such as the Emporia is $399. How much does one save going with a 32A or 40A? Around here electricians get $1500 to $2500 to install a charger. In all likelihood you will find benefit in having a faster charger, and / or one with remote capability through an app, or a timer through an app. Capacity and capability are good things. Avoid being persuaded that you will never need them because someone argues that their 5 year ago choice of a charger is the best choice available today, and that you will never use the features that they won't use, because they don't have. Do your homework (which is why you asked a question here) and figure out what might work well for you. Chargers can change in 5 years, and new ones might have capacity and capabilities that you may find useful.

 

[Froggy]

2 years ago a 48 amp cost nearly twice what a 40 amp EVSE does. Putting in the EVSE stretched my budget after I put as much down on the ID4 as I did .

 

[Don]

By the time a charger is installed there are several factors in the cost. The rate capability of the charger ends up as a small percentage of the total bill. A 48A charger, such as the Emporia is $399. How much does one save going with a 32A or 40A? Around here electricians get $1500 to $2500 to install a charger.

So you're talking $2K to $3K total. My 32 amp install came to less than $500 total, so I did save a bit, Lol. True, I did install it myself and I only needed 25 feet of 8/2 wire and a 14-50 outlet. I guess it helps that it was the 4th one I've installed in my garage, with the first one being an EVSE that I built myself from scratch - 10 years ago, any L2 EVSE was quite expensive and the parts to build your own weren't exactly cheap either

I have nothing against 50 amp EVSE's so if you've got an extra $2K to $3K and cost is no consideration, that's the way to go for sure (it's called Future Proofing) but I would like to see everyone get something where current is easily adjustable. Charging at max amps puts lots of stress on many things in the car and there's no reason to charge any faster than you need. The battery and the motor in the car should easily go 100,000 miles with minimal care, but there are other things which can fail and put you out of business and many of those are very expensive to repair. The charger generates LOTS of heat when operated at it's full 11Kw and that requires an active cooling system with pumps and fans to keep it from self destructing. When any of those parts fail, you're out of business. I know personally when charging at 32 amps, the cooling system runs constantly and when charging at 24 amps it cycles off and on, but when charging at just 16 amps, mine doesn't run at all, unless it's very hot in my garage. I try to charge at max amps when I'm out on the road, but at home since there's seldom any rush, I prefer to take it easy on the equipment

Everybody gets to use their car in any way they see fit . . . . and when these cars get a few years on them, we'll be reading about some failures which really piss off the owners - Many of those failures can be prevented with just a little forethought, but that too is all up to the owner

 

[mongo]

So you're talking $2K to $3K total. My 32 amp install came to less than $500 total, so I did save a bit, Lol. True, I did install it myself and I only needed 25 feet of 8/2 wire and a 14-50 outlet. I guess it helps that it was the 4th one I've installed in my garage, with the first one being an EVSE that I built myself from scratch - 10 years ago, any L2 EVSE was quite expensive and the parts to build your own weren't exactly cheap either

I have nothing against 50 amp EVSE's so if you've got an extra $2K to $3K and cost is no consideration, that's the way to go for sure (it's called Future Proofing) but I would like to see everyone get something where current is easily adjustable. Charging at max amps puts lots of stress on many things in the car and there's no reason to charge any faster than you need. The battery and the motor in the car should easily go 100,000 miles with minimal care, but there are other things which can fail and put you out of business and many of those are very expensive to repair. The charger generates LOTS of heat when operated at it's full 11Kw and that requires an active cooling system with pumps and fans to keep it from self destructing. When any of those parts fail, you're out of business. I know personally when charging at 32 amps, the cooling system runs constantly and when charging at 24 amps it cycles off and on, but when charging at just 16 amps, mine doesn't run at all, unless it's very hot in my garage. I try to charge at max amps when I'm out on the road, but at home since there's seldom any rush, I prefer to take it easy on the equipment

Everybody gets to use their car in any way they see fit . . . . and when these cars get a few years on them, we'll be reading about some failures which really piss off the owners - Many of those failures can be prevented with just a little forethought, but that too is all up to the owner

One of my doctors had a L2 charger outlet installed, which ran him $1800. When I looked into it, I got two quotes of $2500 and $2800, including permitting and inspection. In the end, I ran 6/2 cu, which was $2+/ft at Lowes, and needed a double handybox, a 60 amp breaker and several strain reliefs. Because the building I installed in on was a barn, there was no permit required, and the whole effort took 2 hours to shop for the supplies and 2 hours to accomplish and test. It was inspected the following week for $100. But the OP was asking for input on EVSE / chargers, and didn't state whether he could do electrical work, and appeared to be primarily focused on the capacity and capability of chargers, so I addressed that.

Now my doctor who installed a L2 for his ID.4 chose a 48A unit. I asked him why, and he said that while he might not need a high capacity L2, he never knows when he will get called to ED for a patient, and he wants a certain capacity in his car quickly if needed. After paying $1800 for an outlet, he paid another $400 for the charger, and $300 to have the electrician remove the outlet and hardwire the charger. Could he have saved $200 going with a 16A L2? Sure, but for him it didn't make sense. Why cut charge capacity in half for a 10% project reduction?

My 48A Emporia has no fans and does not get hot or even warm to the touch when charging. I have not evaluated the heat in the car charging unit, but I can say that the skin of the car is about 4F warmer in no wind, when it is 14F outside.

EVSEs change, hopefully for the better, and peoples needs are different.

 

[MR. Ed of course]

I paid an electrician $560 to install a 50 Amp breaker, about two feet of conduit, and a 240V outlet. The EVSE has a 25' cord, so It reaches the ID.4 parked in the garage or driveway.

BTW, I found out today (when I got my Duke Energy bill) I was charging during PEAK hours. Called to get their "Off-Peak" hours. From Oct 1st through March 31st - weekdays from 1pm to 4pm. All day on weekends, Thanksgiving +1, and Christmas. From April 1st through Sept. 30th - 7am through 9am. IMO, not very intuitive "Off Peak" times. Now that I know, I will schedule accordingly.

My advice, don't assume the "off peak" times. Call your power company to get the real skinny. YMMV.

 

[mongo]

I found out today (when I got my Duke Energy bill) I was charging during PEAK hours. Called to get their "Off-Peak" hours. From Oct 1st through March 31st - weekdays from 1pm to 4pm. All day on weekends, Thanksgiving +1, and Christmas. From April 1st through Sept. 30th - 7am through 9am. IMO, not very intuitive "Off Peak" times. Now that I know, I will schedule accordingly.

My advice, don't assume the "off peak" times. Call your power company to get the real skinny. YMMV.

Ouch, at least you caught it! How much are the savings for off-peak?

 

[MR. Ed of course]

Ouch, at least you caught it! How much are the savings for off-peak?

I forgot to ask, so I called again. Good that I did, as I got completely different answers.

The following is for residential customers.
Winter: Dec - Feb. Off Peak = 10 am to 6 pm, and 9 pm to 5 am. Off-Peak = 7.308¢ per kWh.
On-Peak = 8.818¢ per kWh.
Summer: March - Nov. Off Peak = 9 pm to 6 pm. Super-Off-Peak (12 a.m. – 6 a.m.) = 4.237¢ per kWh
Weekends and select holidays are exempt from on-peak charges.

This makes more sense to me. I can see I'm going to have fun keeping track of the varying schedules. YMMV. There's also a monthly Customer Charge of $12.51.

BTW, the info above is at: Residential Time-of-Use Rate Program - Duke Energy

 

[mongo]

I forgot to ask, so I called again. Good that I did, as I got completely different answers.

The following is for residential customers.
Winter: Dec - Feb. Off Peak = 10 am to 6 pm, and 9 pm to 5 am. Off-Peak = 7.308¢ per kWh.
On-Peak = 8.818¢ per kWh.
Summer: March - Nov. Off Peak = 9 pm to 6 pm. Super-Off-Peak (12 a.m. – 6 a.m.) = 4.237¢ per kWh
Weekends and select holidays are exempt from on-peak charges.

This makes more sense to me. I can see I'm going to have fun keeping track of the varying schedules. YMMV.

BTW, the info above is at: Residential Time-of-Use Rate Program - Duke Energy

WOW! Those are really good rates, unless there is a distribution charge on top. My rates here are on the order of $0.16 / kWh and if I had TOU the peak is higher and the off peak is a little lower.

 

[Don]

My 48A Emporia has no fans and does not get hot or even warm to the touch when charging. I have not evaluated the heat in the car charging unit, but I can say that the skin of the car is about 4F warmer in no wind, when it is 14F outside.

I'm not aware of any EVSE which does get hot or require cooling - There's nothing in there but a tiny power supply and a couple big relays. What does get hot is the charger, which is located in the car and even the tiny 3 Kw one in my Mitsubishi requires liquid cooling with a pump, a radiator and a fan. Those are the really, really expensive parts of EV charging and when something there fails, you'd better hope it's still under warranty. Running the car charger at max when you don't need to just seems like a really foolish thing to be doing

 

[Lodi Dave]

Your post is incorrect.
Max for ID4 is dependent on voltage under load.
Under load voltage example
240V X 48A = 11.52 kw
246V X 48A = 11.808 kw.
208V X 48A = 9.984 kw ( most common across US for split phase voltage)
Max input of ID4 converter is set by current ( 48A max) and depending on voltage under load it will accept up to J1772 standard voltage.

I have 245 v ac measured at 8:00 pm

 

[VW TECHNICIAN]

I have 245 v ac measured at 8:00 pm

You have to measure under load voltage...you will definitely benefit from slightly more efficiency but definitely more energy delivered vs 208V under load. I have been charging after midnight in CA because voltage is much higher than daytime when at my rental residence. But i have run across many states with only no load 210V split phase....