[ericy]

Being able to see the problem and admit to the problem is the first step in correcting the problem.

And as I've said, I really like my ID.4; I just detest the utterly-incompetent software with which it is equipped.

I think the engineers have known for a while how hard some of these problems are. And some of it is just VW taking stuff in house and not letting vendors own the SW any more.

 

[Enzeder]

From Schaeffer's statements, it would seem 3.0 might now be more than that.

This was the one part of the article that concerned me. I have 3.1 and it ain't all that. I'm really hoping 3.0 was just a shorthand for 3.3, 3.4, 3.5, etc.

I am VERY ENCOURAGED that the CEO of VW is saying exactly the same things I've been saying about the software and his prescriptions for change are quite like what I've been prescribing.

Hear, hear!!! Got to see the problem to fix the problem. It kinda felt like he was reading off my list of gripes. I know there's nothing to be done about the hardware in my car, but I really hope they can improve the software.

I would totally believe that. I never understood that approach from the start – it never made any sense. It's a car.

I understood then that it's new and unfinished software. What makes sense is that it's a work in progress, and we should expect it to need updates. But to my way of thinking, updates are ready when they're ready. An artificial 12 week cycle seemed unnecessary, and I couldn't imagine it would go on indefinitely – at some point the cake is fully baked.

For comparison, Tesla release OTA updates about every 4 weeks. Tesla have been eating the legacies for lunch. Any update cycle is artificial - both VW's and Tesla's, but I know which I'd prefer.
There's no problem with incrementalism. Create your list of 100 bugs, pick the top 10 and fix them. If you try to fix all 100, you'll be making too many changes, take too long, and get reports of another 50 while you work - it's a recipe for mission creep and never finishing.

From the article:
Thomas Schäfer, who took over as Volkswagen CEO in summer 2022, admitted that mistakes had been made with infotainment systems during interviews at the 2022 Los Angeles auto show and promised fixes within two years. ‘In this rush to create these vehicles to be quick off the mark and so on, the team had come up with different ideas,’ he admitted.
I'm a little bothered that he expects it to take another two years. At that point the '21's will be 5 model years old... ooof.

 

[Atlant]

Many English speaking people may not realize that English is in fact one of the hardest languages for non English speakers to learn. Lots of slang, idioms, inconsistent spelling and grammar rules.

The difficulty with English is that it's not a single language at all; we've stolen freely from dozens of other languages so, for example, our spelling appears to be a mess but it makes a weird kind of sense if you trace every word back to its original source language.

“I coughed when I went through the thoroughly rough-walled tunnel although I ought to know enough to just tough it out by now.”

Or…

“ghoti”

 

[Atlant]

I know there's nothing to be done about the hardware in my car, but I really hope they can improve the software.

Actually, my wife this morning asked me “So how much will that steering wheel with the mechanical switches cost and will it be compatible with your car?”

And elsewhere, I mentioned that I would spend real money to get the 12" infotainment screen with the newly-backlit capacitive-touch sliders.

For comparison, Tesla release OTA updates about every 4 weeks. Tesla have been eating the legacies for lunch. Any update cycle is artificial - both VW's and Tesla's, but I know which I'd prefer. There's no problem with incrementalism. Create your list of 100 bugs, pick the top 10 and fix them. If you try to fix all 100, you'll be making too many changes, take too long, and get reports of another 50 while you work - it's a recipe for mission creep and never finishing.

A three-month release cadence sounds about right to me for anything that changes the User Experience by very much. That doesn't mean that “behind the scenes” can't roll out faster but if you're actually testing this stuff well, there's a limit to how often you should do releases.

 

[VW TECHNICIAN]

Do you mean optimization and improvements to existing ID cars or only those with the new hardware

All ID family and all ICE vehicle's running this hardware.

 

[VW TECHNICIAN]

PLEASE have them add a manual preheat button as well, that can be turned off again as well, and just turns off as soon as the battery reaches the optimal temp (20 degrees c?)
I have too little faith in VW automating stuff 100% correctly every time, and the ability to preheat the battery for optimal charging manually will fix most of corner cases where automation fails.

Unfortunately this was rejected by VW for manual precondition.

 

[VW TECHNICIAN]

OMG promises promises promises all to sell a car.

Look, it's not that I don't want to give "the new guy" some room to spread his wings and fix things.

But Schafer comes to LA to drop this little truth nugget that doesn't acknowledge (in fact completely ignores) the real truth: people are pissed because VW in the US hasn't updated their software.

He's like the contractor who hasn't finished the job, and yet is pointing out new work, "Oh, I could do this for you, I could do that." Dude just finish the job you started before talking about new work!

But even moreso tell me VoA even has a seat at the table. We see Europeans getting dribs and drabs of software updates – no where near the 3-month OTA cycle VW would love to hit – but something, and some form of communication.

So VW, and VW of America specifically: I know you need to sell cars, and I know if you can't deliver today then sell 'em what you'll deliver tomorrow. But for goodness sake stop already. Your problem isn't sliders and unlighted controls, your problem is you're not communicating with your customers and you're not delivering on expectations you sold us.

And watch out for your consumer outreach, or your next UI will look like a Volvo's telephone keypad or worse yet Homer's concept car.

Write him email he actually read emails not just work related. Not only owners are tired of this issue but people who actually work for VW. Sometimes I feel that want to shoot in the foot person who has come up with this type of nonsense.

 

[Lotus54]

I would really appreciate 3.1 out which fixes the ESC issue (seems mostly on AWD). It is quite annoying and wearing out brakes and wasting energy for just a bug.

A bunch of other stuff isn’t great, but for me that is the biggest issue.
hopefully that will be done fairly soon. But more regular fixes/updates would be quite nice.

 

[Eric Nay]

And elsewhere, I mentioned that I would spend real money to get the 12" infotainment screen with the newly-backlit capacitive-touch sliders.

And you are not alone there. I sat on my hands as a few people here talked about swapping out the speakers and adding a subwoofer, but fixing the non-backlit switches is one project I might buy into.

 

[Jon B. Ross]

I would really appreciate 3.1 out which fixes the ESC issue (seems mostly on AWD). It is quite annoying and wearing out brakes and wasting energy for just a bug.

A bunch of other stuff isn’t great, but for me that is the biggest issue.
hopefully that will be done fairly soon. But more regular fixes/updates would be quite nice.

What ESC issues do you have on your AWD?

 

[JimmyVW]

Unfortunately this was rejected by VW for manual precondition.

Yeah how stupid can you be, honestly.
There is a reason that Tesla has it as a simple switch to flick in their app.

 

[Atlant]

And you are not alone there. I sat on my hands as a few people here talked about swapping out the speakers and adding a subwoofer, but fixing the non-backlit switches is one project I might buy into.

I wan't joking when I suggested Betalights as an alternative. ;-)

 

[Pascal]

I wan't joking when I suggested Betalights as an alternative. ;-)

View attachment 17947

 

[Lotus54]

What ESC issues do you have on your AWD?

Like many others, the ESC (traction control) comes on when it shouldn’t. On very gentle corners (often slightly banked) at moderate speeds the ESC will kick in, activating brakes and disengaging the cruise control. there are threads on it- I posted up some video of it on my car.
Reports from people that have it happen, and then got a 22 with the 3.1 say it is gone.

Engaging the ‘sport ESC’ solves the issue. But you have to stop to turn it on, and sport is turned off if cruise is engaged and have to stop again to turn it back on. That is sort of buried in the menus, although one person found it can be put on the ‘swipe down’ menu for faster access (although swipe down does not always work for me).

I’ve mentioned it to the dealer, but the closest place it always does it is probably 20 minutes from the dealer and I doubt they want to ride that far to see something they can’t fix anyway. (Reports are that VW acknowledged that is a bug and 3.1 fixes it).

 

[notspeedy]

I'm be curious how VW is handling the software engineering. are they using existing stacks, or did they just go rouge and create a stack from scratch.

 

[Atlant]

View attachment 17949

I'm sure you're joking but Betalights are actually pretty safe, at least as compared to Homer. ;-)

Tritium decays via Beta (β) decay (the emission of high-energy electrons) and it's the electrons that induce the phosphor to glow. But there's no way that they get through the glass tubule. The only real risk is that the glass is fractured releasing the radioactive tritium gas, but it's a pretty-miniscule amount.

And, of course, they lose their brightness at the rate of decay (~10 year half) of the tritium gas.

 

[VW TECHNICIAN]

Yeah how stupid can you be, honestly.
There is a reason that Tesla has it as a simple switch to flick in their app.

Don't blame me....I'm only messenger.
I do agree with this but I'm not one making decisions.

 

[tdx44]

Don't blame me....I'm only messenger.
I do agree with this but I'm not one making decisions.

Regardless, I for one can still appreciate well sourced information coming from a trusted source, it means things are definitely happening. SO thank you for keeping us in the loop.

When approximately can we expect, do you think, actual software updates to start happening with our ID.4s? Not talking about getting the 21 models on 3.0 (though I understand that is a crucial step) or bug fixes, but actual new features?

 

[JimmyVW]

Don't blame me....I'm only messenger.
I do agree with this but I'm not one making decisions.

no worries, I understand. Still VW is making some... interesting... choices. Which they'll have to tweak in the next few years I think

 

[JimmyVW]

Regardless, I for one can still appreciate well sourced information coming from a trusted source, it means things are definitely happening. SO thank you for keeping us in the loop.

When approximately can we expect, do you think, actual software updates to start happening with our ID.4s? Not talking about getting the 21 models on 3.0 (though I understand that is a crucial step) or bug fixes, but actual new features?

Just realise that there are many cars and VW can NEVER rollout the updates to all cars at the same time.
if they say they'll start by X date, assume that you won't get it before x + 6 months later, just because of the scaling of the updates. (and if I see the mess with the 3.0 update, I don't expect 3.0 before June 2023 on my car personally, and that would be a little over 18 months after they first announced they would start rolling it out.)