[aascott627]

Just finished a buyout of our brand new 2023 ID4 after it took dealer 42 days to repair door latch issue.

Taking the money and picking up a Tesla model Y this weekend.

Id4 made sense 3 month ago when a model y was $20k more expensive, but now prices are comparable.

Here's the details:
2023 ID4 AWD Pro S: $53k msrp and $7.5k rebate
2023 Model Y: $54k msrp and $7.5k rebate (we bought an Austin built Non long range model y)

With id4 and model y priced similarly:

Pros for Model Y:
1. Longer range 280 miles vs. 240 with id4 awd
2. More cargo volume including frunk
3. Faster charging rate 250kw vs 170kw
4. Heated front and rear seats
5. Netflix and media in car
6. Battery preconditioning for improved charge rates
7. Charging infrastructure that actually works
8. Cameras all over that allow sentry mode
9. Dog and camp mode
10. 0-60 time of 5 seconds vs 5.8
11. Camera based auto cruise and lane keep
12. Amazing app that actually works to control every function if car
13. Towing capacity of 3500lb vs 2700lb
14. 2in tow receiver hitch vs 1.25in
15. Ability to actually fit real snow chains (id4 requires 0 clearance chains or socks)
16. Regular software updates
17. Service centers that actually know how to service EVs
18. Dual wireless phone chargers
19. Heat pump for HVAC improves range in cold climates
20. In house cheaper tesla insurance
21. No dealer haggling purchase car on app

Id4 pros:
1. Personally prefer the exterior look
2. Foot wave to open rear hatch (tesla could add this using gestures in rear camera with a software update)
3. Retractable sun shade for glass roof

For the same price I believe Model Y is a better car/value. Curious to see your thoughts, if you think ID4 is still a better value please post what technical feature justifies that belief.

 

[ElectricBlue]

sigh...

 

[IslandLarry]

Just finished a buyout of our brand new 2023 ID4 after it took dealer 42 days to repair door latch issue.

Taking the money and picking up a Tesla model Y this weekend.

Id4 made sense 3 month ago when a model y was $20k more expensive, but now prices are comparable.

Here's the details:
2023 ID4 AWD Pro S: $53k msrp and $7.5k rebate
2023 Model Y: $54k msrp and $7.5k rebate (we bought an Austin built Non long range model y)

With id4 and model y priced similarly:

Pros for Model Y:
1. Longer range 280 miles vs. 240 with id4 awd
2. More cargo volume including frunk
3. Faster charging rate 250kw vs 170kw
4. Heated front and rear seats
5. Netflix and media in car
6. Battery preconditioning for improved charge rates
7. Charging infrastructure that actually works
8. Cameras all over that allow sentry mode
9. Dog and camp mode
10. 0-60 time of 5 seconds vs 5.8
11. Camera based auto cruise and lane keep
12. Amazing app that actually works to control every function if car
13. Towing capacity of 3500lb vs 2700lb
14. 2in tow receiver hitch vs 1.25in
15. Ability to actually fit real snow chains (id4 requires 0 clearance chains or socks)
16. Regular software updates
17. Service centers that actually know how to service EVs
18. Dual wireless phone chargers
19. Heat pump for HVAC improves range in cold climates
20. In house cheaper tesla insurance
21. No dealer haggling purchase car on app

Id4 pros:
1. Personally prefer the exterior look
2. Foot wave to open rear hatch (tesla could add this using gestures in rear camera with a software update)
3. Retractable sun shade for glass roof

For the same price I believe Model Y is a better car/value. Curious to see your thoughts, if you think ID4 is still a better value please post what technical feature justifies that belief.

Why? You're picking up your car model Y tomorrow so obviously you have already made your determination and have no need for validation from us.
I wish you years of happiness driving your new car.

 

[Spin]

Drive it for a while and convince yourself. Good luck.

 

[aascott627]

I still have an option to back out of both the Model Y purchase and the ID4 buyback so wanted to other's opinions on what makes the ID4 a better car at the same price point with the Model Y.

I rented a Model Y for 2 weeks while my ID4 was in the shop, and agree with others that the ride quality is not as good as the ID4, but I'm having trouble justifying keeping the ID4 when on paper the Model Y is superior in all technical categories.

I waited over a year for my ID4 so don't get me wrong I was sold on it when I bought it. It's my 6th EV, but at the same price just not seeing the advantage anymore.

 

[Froggy]

Why bother. You’re a grownup and it’s your money. Have fun on a Tesla forum.

 

[bjackson]

I think your reasoning is sound. I also considered a buyback (and a Model Y) when the front motor of my 2023 Pro S AWD failed at 3700 miles, but was surprised and pleased when I got the ID.4 back, fully repaired with new front propulsion unit, less than 2 weeks after it went to the dealership. I have had it back now for about 6 weeks and have taken it on a couple of mid-range (200+ miles) road trips (and drive it daily for my work commute and local errands) with not a single glitch. I still love the ride quality, the comfort, the turning radius (!) and the driving experience. I wish you luck with the new car. Let us know how it works out.

 

[JustADad]

and agree with others that the ride quality is not as good as the ID4

That's my bottom line. Most of the stuff in your list either doesn't apply to me (tire chains, dog mode, etc.), or impacts me much less than overall comfort. But everyone is different and has different priorities, so pick what makes you happy. For me, its the overall comfort and quality of the ID4.

 

[VW Dave]

Regarding Model Y range, presumably you saw this:

CR ID4 Range Test (Cold, Mild, Warm)

I believe the test car was a 2021 ID4 AWD, given the low EPA range estimate of 240 miles. My 2023 Pro S AWD has an EPA range estimate of 255 and generally exceeds it in mild weather. How We Tested We began testing in frigid February 2022, repeating the procedure in balmy April and in...

www.vwidtalk.com

Best of luck choosing the car that appeals to you more. I get it.

 

[SunWizard]

1. Longer range 280 miles vs. 240 with id4 awd

This is wrong on both numbers, look at some actual tests not EPA. The ID.4 is rated 255 EPA but does 280 with no problem. I assume you have seen all the reports and good tests that show Tesla exaggerates their range and you will not get 280 on a model Y SR they usually get 50 less than EPA or around 230.

 

[IslandLarry]

I still have an option to back out of both the Model Y purchase and the ID4 buyback so wanted to other's opinions on what makes the ID4 a better car at the same price point with the Model Y.

I rented a Model Y for 2 weeks while my ID4 was in the shop, and agree with others that the ride quality is not as good as the ID4, but I'm having trouble justifying keeping the ID4 when on paper the Model Y is superior in all technical categories.

I waited over a year for my ID4 so don't get me wrong I was sold on it when I bought it. It's my 6th EV, but at the same price just not seeing the advantage anymore.

Well in that case:

1. Longer range 280 miles vs. 240 with id4 awd

As an ID.4 owner and forum member you should be aware that when it comes to range YMMV as one member here likes to say.​

2. More cargo volume including frunk

While I do not think this makes one vehicle better than another, if you need the cargo space then this is certainly a factor in your decision process.​

3. Faster charging rate 250kw vs 170kw

Again, if you road trip or use public charging a lot, then this is also a decision factor. Only you can decide how important it is to you.​

4. Heated front and rear seats

My back seats are empty 95% of the time, if you have frequent back seat passengers then this is a plus. Heated rear seats and 3 zone climate are options on the ID.4 at the S PLUS trim level.​

5. Netflix and media in car

Trade off for this is no Apple Carplay/Android Auto. Why are you watching netflix in the car anyway?​

6. Battery preconditioning for improved charge rates

This is a biggie, but supposedly coming in a future software update.​

7. Charging infrastructure that actually works

Have you been inconvenienced by non functional public chargers? The only ones I've encountered have been on this forum. Plus Tesla opening up 10% of it's supercharger network to CCS vehicles.​

8. Cameras all over that allow sentry mode

Yes I would like this, but it is available aftermarket​

9. Dog and camp mode

Nice to have feature, but not something that would make or break my buying decision. Just be aware that I have heard anecdotal cases of people not realising that Tesla has a dog mode and that it is on and breaking the window anyway to "rescue" a dog.​

10. 0-60 time of 5 seconds vs 5.8

You got me there, if that is what you care about then get the Model S plaid and do it in under 2 seconds.​

11. Camera based auto cruise and lane keep

Even Tesla admits that camera based systems are not as good as radar and proximity sensors, which is why they are re-introducing them.​

12. Amazing app that actually works to control every function if car

I don't understand this obsession with the app, I can preheat my car and defrost the windows from the app already. It would be nice to be able to lock the doors remotely, but not much else I need.​

13. Towing capacity of 3500lb vs 2700lb

If you need the towing capacity then decision is made, you have to choose the car that meets your basic needs.​

14. 2in tow receiver hitch vs 1.25in

2 inch receiver available aftermarket.​

15. Ability to actually fit real snow chains (id4 requires 0 clearance chains or socks)

I have never used chains, so not in a position to comment on this.​

16. Regular software updates

Yes Tesla has this down, but why do they need so many updates? I also believe (with no proof) that VW will have this worked out "soon".​

17. Service centers that actually know how to service EVs

I have no issue with my local VW dealers knowledge/ability and have a choice of 5 or more VW dealers within 25 miles. There is one Tesla service centger near me, but furhtur away than the 3 closest VW dealers.​

18. Dual wireless phone chargers

I've wirelessly charged once to test it out, wired is much faster and you seem like someone who is concerned with "charging times".​

19. Heat pump for HVAC improves range in cold climates

This is definitely a plus for the Tesla.​

20. In house cheaper tesla insurance

Required because TEsla's are so much more expensive to repair/insure​

21. No dealer haggling purchase car on app

I had a no haggle experience, ordered online and dealer called me when it arrived, paid MSRP and drove it home. I'm not sure how Tesla's experience would differ.​

 

[SunWizard]

Here is a recent giant 423 post thread on the same subject that we can now repeat again:

Tesla price cuts. Would you buy one now?

Tesla slashed prices of its models between 6% and 20%. The base Model Y is now $52,990, down from $65,990. With cuts like this, do you see yourself considering a Tesla any time soon? https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/tesla-cuts-prices-electric-vehicles-us-market-2023-01-13/

www.vwidtalk.com

and here are a few good quotes from that thread where you can get lots more info to convince yourself:

No way, I wouldn’t buy one at any price - there’s no comparison between the two in the looks department, IMO. Nor in the build quality and comfort department.

Model Y is intentionally, direct from the horse's mouth, built cheaply. It was intended to be more of an entry level car for the masses. If they had actually done that and provided a super affordable entry level but pretty capable EV for like 30k, I'd be singing a different tune about the quality vs value etc.

 

[GriefHammer]

I still have an option to back out of both the Model Y purchase and the ID4 buyback so wanted to other's opinions on what makes the ID4 a better car at the same price point with the Model Y.

I rented a Model Y for 2 weeks while my ID4 was in the shop, and agree with others that the ride quality is not as good as the ID4, but I'm having trouble justifying keeping the ID4 when on paper the Model Y is superior in all technical categories.

I waited over a year for my ID4 so don't get me wrong I was sold on it when I bought it. It's my 6th EV, but at the same price just not seeing the advantage anymore.

Don't back out. Buy the Model Y, and move on with your life.

 

[werd]

Well in that case:

1. Longer range 280 miles vs. 240 with id4 awd

As an ID.4 owner and forum member you should be aware that when it comes to range YMMV as one member here likes to say.​

2. More cargo volume including frunk

While I do not think this makes one vehicle better than another, if you need the cargo space then this is certainly a factor in your decision process.​

3. Faster charging rate 250kw vs 170kw

Again, if you road trip or use public charging a lot, then this is also a decision factor. Only you can decide how important it is to you.​

4. Heated front and rear seats

My back seats are empty 95% of the time, if you have frequent back seat passengers then this is a plus. Heated rear seats and 3 zone climate are options on the ID.4 at the S PLUS trim level.​

5. Netflix and media in car

Trade off for this is no Apple Carplay/Android Auto. Why are you watching netflix in the car anyway?​

6. Battery preconditioning for improved charge rates

This is a biggie, but supposedly coming in a future software update.​

7. Charging infrastructure that actually works

Have you been inconvenienced by non functional public chargers? The only ones I've encountered have been on this forum. Plus Tesla opening up 10% of it's supercharger network to CCS vehicles.​

8. Cameras all over that allow sentry mode

Yes I would like this, but it is available aftermarket​

9. Dog and camp mode

Nice to have feature, but not something that would make or break my buying decision. Just be aware that I have heard anecdotal cases of people not realising that Tesla has a dog mode and that it is on and breaking the window anyway to "rescue" a dog.​

10. 0-60 time of 5 seconds vs 5.8

You got me there, if that is what you care about then get the Model S plaid and do it in under 2 seconds.​

11. Camera based auto cruise and lane keep

Even Tesla admits that camera based systems are not as good as radar and proximity sensors, which is why they are re-introducing them.​

12. Amazing app that actually works to control every function if car

I don't understand this obsession with the app, I can preheat my car and defrost the windows from the app already. It would be nice to be able to lock the doors remotely, but not much else I need.​

13. Towing capacity of 3500lb vs 2700lb

If you need the towing capacity then decision is made, you have to choose the car that meets your basic needs.​

14. 2in tow receiver hitch vs 1.25in

2 inch receiver available aftermarket.​

15. Ability to actually fit real snow chains (id4 requires 0 clearance chains or socks)

I have never used chains, so not in a position to comment on this.​

16. Regular software updates

Yes Tesla has this down, but why do they need so many updates? I also believe (with no proof) that VW will have this worked out "soon".​

17. Service centers that actually know how to service EVs

I have no issue with my local VW dealers knowledge/ability and have a choice of 5 or more VW dealers within 25 miles. There is one Tesla service centger near me, but furhtur away than the 3 closest VW dealers.​

18. Dual wireless phone chargers

I've wirelessly charged once to test it out, wired is much faster and you seem like someone who is concerned with "charging times".​

19. Heat pump for HVAC improves range in cold climates

This is definitely a plus for the Tesla.​

20. In house cheaper tesla insurance

Required because TEsla's are so much more expensive to repair/insure​

21. No dealer haggling purchase car on app

I had a no haggle experience, ordered online and dealer called me when it arrived, paid MSRP and drove it home. I'm not sure how Tesla's experience would differ.​

Thanks for this. I enjoyed reading it. There's so much defensiveness and vitriol in this forum; I like the idea of an everyman's comparison. I wish OP the best with their Model Y! If you decide to pull out, I wish you the best with your VW!

One big downside for me is Elon Musk. a) his erratic behavior and apparent drastic drive of Twitter into the ground gives me pause when it comes to the quality behind anything with his name behind it as well its future (still, I would be very surprised if Tesla went the way of Twitter anytime soon, if ever) and b) supporting him with any transaction in any way due to my personal distaste for him [YMMV for sure].

 

[ByebyeGasStations]

 

[jason330i]

I'd go for the LR Model Y if you can get one from existing inventory. Comfort suspension is supposed to be better now.
As for reasons to stick with the ID4: Apple carplay, don't want to be forced into always 1PD driving, working ultra sonic sensors, rear wiper, and avoid Tesla hate.

 

[jakesterpdx]

You're posting on a forum where most people are pretty passionate about their ID.4, so it's a bit like going into a McDonald's and asking them why they shouldn't go to Burger King. Aside from what everyone else has said, I'm just honestly confused about your MSRP numbers: there are lots of Pro S on lots today for sale for <$50k (at least in the Pacific Northwest area), and I can't find a single Model Y in inventory, and the cheapest ones I see available to order (ready in June) are $54,990, so basically $55k. So that big difference combined with the fact that I get another $2,500 off in Oregon (Department of Environmental Quality : Oregon Clean Vehicle Rebate Program : Clean Vehicles : State of Oregon) thanks to the Pro S being under $50k, means that it was $7,500 less for me. I might get hate from others on the forum for saying this, but honestly if they were the same price and I could've gotten either one, I would have picked the Model Y, too. But $7,500 is a lot of money in my world, and the ID.4 is working out for me. I like the free charging at EA for 3 years, too.

 

[GriefHammer]

View attachment 22418

Awesome 😂

 

[IllinoisID4]

FYI, the Pro S Plus does come with heated rear seats. It also comes with 3-zone climate control, which I don't think is an option for Tesla. When we looked at EVs this summer, we didn't consider Tesla because I have issues with ear pressure when riding in a Tesla (reported issue for some Tesla drivers that has something to do with alignment of trunk and air pressure changes inside the vehicle when you hit bumps); so I haven't done a ton of comparison. I do know that the turning radius is better in ID4 than Tesla which is high on my list of values. We all have different items that are important to us so what is valuable to me might not be valuable to you and vice versa. I've been holding out to receive our Pro S Plus because of those heated rear seats and 3-zone climate control, where others are holding out for the 360 camera and others decided not to wait and get the Pro S instead.

Sorry to hear you were without your ID4 so long while waiting for a part, but I suspect it is possible that you might have a similar experience with a Tesla, depending on the repair. Best of luck with your decision.

 

[EricaD]

It’s subjective - there’s no right or wrong, no better or worse. My ID.4 has been perfect so far, and I think Model Y is ugly and that running everything through the computer is impractical and dangerous. So even if it cost only $25k, I still wouldn’t buy a Tesla, I’d buy a Bolt instead.

But if the Model Y is the better car and better value to you, then that’s the right choice for you.
What’s with people pushing so hard to convince others about things like this? You choose what you want, I’ll choose what I want, and let’s all just be happy that we now have several options to choose from, with more coming to market every year. I’ve never once tried to convince someone that my preference should be their preference - that’s so weird.