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Expectation is that when Tesla brings the TX plant on line (late 2021/early 2022) many of the M-Y quality defects will be fixed and it may also have significant changes in the platform castings, including a structural battery pack with the newer higher capacity battery cells. The Berlin plant will be a harbinger of this.
If they can't get their quality act together in California, why/how is moving to Texas going to fix it??
 

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May be a consideration: Tesla has a 120k mile warranty on battery/drive unit while VW is 100k. Not sure if VW covers drive unit.
 

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If they can't get their quality act together in California, why/how is moving to Texas going to fix it??
That is my question too. Quality is a corporate culture and requires constant effort. If production speed over quality is continually accepted by management, it won't matter where they are made.

There is this story from GM's Bob Lutz about Ferdinand Piech's approach: The story as told by Lutz: "Volkswagen, in the eighties, was the first Western producer to out-do the Japanese in assembly precision. I asked then-CEO Ferdinand Piëch how they did it: "I got all the production execs in a room and told them they had six weeks to achieve consistent 4mm gaps or they'd all be fired. It was easy!" I humbly suggested this, er, "leadership style" would not be appropriate in the US, and thus, never tried it. " Bob Lutz Talks Panel Gaps, Tesla, and Why Every Detail Matters (roadandtrack.com)
 

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I really did not see that coming. It could change my mind, since this cuts the price premium for the Tesla in half when you factor in the tax credit. It even falls below the $45k threshold to qualify for the sales tax exemption in Washington state, so I am going to seriously consider it.
 

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I don’t know a thing about cars. I barely know how to drive and got a license out of sheer necessity... but I do know and understand a heat pump installed in my electric vehicle is in my best interests.

I had two ID.4 reservations, one for the base pro and one FE. I will be canceling both and wait a little longer hoping that the new admin gives back federal tax incentives on Tesla so I can jump in and get the two model Ys our family needs. The third row seats and other Tesla perks are more than worth the wait!
 

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2021 ID.4 1st Edition (on order), 2012 CC Sport, 1986 Golf (former), 1967 Beetle (former)
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Something to think about is that Ford has already cut Mach-E MSRP's due to market presssure. May this force VW's hand?
 

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@ErickF,

I wonder the same for the ID.4. If not a lower MSRP maybe $1-2k off MSRP at the dealer.

Tesla has done a lot of great things for EVs but I don't like the moving target for car options and price. One month it is no way we are building the Standard Range Model Y the next month they are.

To me it is like buying the a new iPhone and finding out the next day Apple came out with a better and cheaper one.
 

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On the other hand, for those solidly in the awd camp the new rwd Y hasn't changed calculus much. I reserved a base awd pro (~43k before tax incentive)... but re-instatement of tax credit for tesla would be a game changer for sure...

Want to see real world id.4 awd range (and loss compared to FE) as well as user reviews of EA network before purchasing though. Did anyone see tfl cars mach-E v Y test? Moving from EA stall to stall trying to find one that wasn't broken then delivering only 40 kw to the mustang. If that's common experience for EA, pretty much eliminates long road trips.

Tesla still annoys me with their option pricing. 2000 for paint? 3000 for tiny third row seats??
 

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I just went and did a test drive of the Model Y Performance model, which of course is the only one they had available for test drives here in Fresno. This was the first time I've ever been behind the wheels of ANY sort of EV. Hands down, it is an absolutely beautiful car and its acceleration is like a rocket ship. I do think though that it's too tech centric for its own good. I'm 35 years old and am incredibly tech savy - I could likely build my own computer but I couldn't tell you exactly what every piece did - and felt like it was too much. In order to adjust the mirrors or steering wheel, you have to use the tablet. If you want to open the glove box, you have to use the tablet. While the screen was huge, there were a LOT of different menus to pick from to find what I wanted so I don't think I could do it on the fly while I'm driving.

I'm not sure if this is a Tesla thing or a standard EV thing but it was very weird letting go of the gas and having the car come to a stop shortly after. There was no way to let the car coast on inertia, at least that I could see, and I felt like I was getting whiplash everytime I took my foot off the brake.

I'm not ruling out the Model Y just yet - I would want to test drive the Standard range RWD model to do a true comparison - but as of right now, I am likely sticking with my ID4 Pro reservation.
 

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@ErickF,

I wonder the same for the ID.4. If not a lower MSRP maybe $1-2k off MSRP at the dealer.
TBH, I'm not betting on it, though VW did push incentives to the ID.3 first movers.

Ford's objective is about stealing a Telsa sale, while Volkswagen is just trying to sell a Volkswagen.
 

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I just went and did a test drive of the Model Y Performance model, which of course is the only one they had available for test drives here in Fresno. This was the first time I've ever been behind the wheels of ANY sort of EV. Hands down, it is an absolutely beautiful car and its acceleration is like a rocket ship. I do think though that it's too tech centric for its own good. I'm 35 years old and am incredibly tech savy - I could likely build my own computer but I couldn't tell you exactly what every piece did - and felt like it was too much. In order to adjust the mirrors or steering wheel, you have to use the tablet. If you want to open the glove box, you have to use the tablet. While the screen was huge, there were a LOT of different menus to pick from to find what I wanted so I don't think I could do it on the fly while I'm driving.

I'm not sure if this is a Tesla thing or a standard EV thing but it was very weird letting go of the gas and having the car come to a stop shortly after. There was no way to let the car coast on inertia, at least that I could see, and I felt like I was getting whiplash everytime I took my foot off the brake.

I'm not ruling out the Model Y just yet - I would want to test drive the Standard range RWD model to do a true comparison - but as of right now, I am likely sticking with my ID4 Pro reservation.
@Aero247 I think you will like the ID.4 much better, in terms of coasting, than the Model Y. VW consciously decided against the one-pedal driving experience that caught you by surprise. Instead of integrating the regenerative braking into the gas pedal (as Tesla and other EVs do), VW's default is to ask drivers to depress the brake pedal (the one labeled "pause" in the FE) in order to start the regen (up to .3g). That means taking your foot off the gas simply puts the car in coasting mode. Somewhere in this forum, there's a better description of all this, including the "B" option that gives some semblance of one-pedal driving on the ID.4. But I thought this might help. Thanks for sharing your MY impressions.
 

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I just went and did a test drive of the Model Y Performance model, which of course is the only one they had available for test drives here in Fresno. This was the first time I've ever been behind the wheels of ANY sort of EV. Hands down, it is an absolutely beautiful car and its acceleration is like a rocket ship. I do think though that it's too tech centric for its own good. I'm 35 years old and am incredibly tech savy - I could likely build my own computer but I couldn't tell you exactly what every piece did - and felt like it was too much. In order to adjust the mirrors or steering wheel, you have to use the tablet. If you want to open the glove box, you have to use the tablet. While the screen was huge, there were a LOT of different menus to pick from to find what I wanted so I don't think I could do it on the fly while I'm driving.

I'm not sure if this is a Tesla thing or a standard EV thing but it was very weird letting go of the gas and having the car come to a stop shortly after. There was no way to let the car coast on inertia, at least that I could see, and I felt like I was getting whiplash everytime I took my foot off the brake.

I'm not ruling out the Model Y just yet - I would want to test drive the Standard range RWD model to do a true comparison - but as of right now, I am likely sticking with my ID4 Pro reservation.
There is a lot on the center screen but 99% of the info on the center screen you do not need to change while driving. The menu items you do need to change while driving are all on the bottom and you quickly get used to the location of the buttons (until they do a UI redesign and annoyingly change the location of the buttons).

If you are not used to driving manuals, the regeneration is an odd feeling (I am assuming you meant whiplash when you took the foot off the accelerator and not the brake). The Tesla (and most EVs) have option to reduce the regen to make the deceleration feel more like a slushbox. It will hurt your efficiency. This is another feature you adapt to as well and once you get used to it, it makes driving more relaxing.
 

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Wow... For me this is a game changer... Look at the standard features of the RWD Model Y compared to the ID.4, literally the only thing ID.4 has going for it is the manufacturing. With the RWD Model Y you still get the premium interior, meaningful software upgrades, and the option of FSD (I'm not interested though, I like driving my car)... Not to mention as stated in another post, that Tesla is going to hold its value alot better than the ID.4

The con list for the ID.4 just keeps growing...

And no I'm not a Tesla fanboy, just a realist. Trying to make the best decision I can for me.
Hmmm, are you buying the vehicle YOU want or the vehicle that Joe Blow will want in a couple years from now?

If you don’t drive more than 10k miles a year then you should consider leasing if you are that concerned about resale.

Or I would recommend waiting for the Porsche Macan EV. Porsche’s resale values remain high. Of SUVs the Porsche Macan gasser has the best resale value according to Consumer Reports.
 

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That's a bold statement considering we have real world experience with Tesla's EV ranges and not VW's... The range for all EV's is going to be nothing more than an estimate, several driving conditions always come in to consideration. Although I would like just a bit more range from both vehicles, I can live with 250/244... My longest trips ever are from Waco to DFW Airport, so I'm good.
I agree with ChristophW. I doubt a RWD Tesla Y would give you the 244 mile EPA range. Read the Car & Driver or Road & Track article where the Porsche Taycan is Compared to the Tesla S. They highlight why Teslas have the high EPA range that they do.

I think you should compare the WLTP instead. Tesla’s EPA figure is about 30% inflated due to Tesla performing two extra test cycles that other manufacturers do not. The difference between stated Tesla EPA and actual range is most noticeable at freeway speeds i.e. when range is the most important for road trips.

Besides the misleading range from Tesla and panel gaps, paint and quality control if you still are considering one, please take it for a test drive and perform a U-turn. Tesla’s turning radius is terrible.

In comparison the 250 mile estimated range from VW for the ID.4 was dead on and the the turning radius is better than a Porsche 911.
 

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There is a lot on the center screen but 99% of the info on the center screen you do not need to change while driving. The menu items you do need to change while driving are all on the bottom and you quickly get used to the location of the buttons (until they do a UI redesign and annoyingly change the location of the buttons).

If you are not used to driving manuals, the regeneration is an odd feeling (I am assuming you meant whiplash when you took the foot off the accelerator and not the brake). The Tesla (and most EVs) have option to reduce the regen to make the deceleration feel more like a slushbox. It will hurt your efficiency. This is another feature you adapt to as well and once you get used to it, it makes driving more relaxing.
You are correct, I meant accelerator.
 

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Another factor is performance, if that is something you would want. MY standard range RWD will do 0-60 in 5.3 sec. The ID is closer to 7.5. Not a big deal for most people but I’d like a little more pep. I’m still in limbo after canceling my ID in December. I may hold out for a couple more months.
 

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I agree with ChristophW. I doubt a RWD Tesla Y would give you the 244 mile EPA range. Read the Car & Driver or Road & Track article where the Porsche Taycan is Compared to the Tesla S. They highlight why Teslas have the high EPA range that they do.

I think you should compare the WLTP instead. Tesla’s EPA figure is about 30% inflated due to Tesla performing two extra test cycles that other manufacturers do not. The difference between stated Tesla EPA and actual range is most noticeable at freeway speeds i.e. when range is the most important for road trips.

Besides the misleading range from Tesla and panel gaps, paint and quality control if you still are considering one, please take it for a test drive and perform a U-turn. Tesla’s turning radius is terrible.

In comparison the 250 mile estimated range from VW for the ID.4 was dead on and the the turning radius is better than a Porsche 911.
My brother bought a Model 3 Long Range in 2018 and gets every bit of his 310 mile range when he needs it. Basically there is way to much variability in driving range conditions to worry about it. Most of the time you're not going to (or should) charge your battery to 100% which effects range. Heat pumps and HVAC also effect range... Look all I'm saying is EPA ranges don't really mean much. Just know whichever vehicle you chose, you're not always getting the advertised range every time and that's a fact with all EV's.

Hmmm, are you buying the vehicle YOU want or the vehicle that Joe Blow will want in a couple years from now?

If you don’t drive more than 10k miles a year then you should consider leasing if you are that concerned about resale.

Or I would recommend waiting for the Porsche Macan EV. Porsche’s resale values remain high. Of SUVs the Porsche Macan gasser has the best resale value according to Consumer Reports.
I will def lease, the reply about resale was just stating my list of growing negative points to the ID.4
 
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