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I’ll get straight to the point. Im parking my id4 1st max in my company garage with the back to the wall to be close to the charging station. While still in my car standing still im speaking on the phone with a colleague for 2-3 mins with the car still on reverse. Note that i have auto hold(didnt check if it was engaged but I assume it was since I was standing still with my foot on the brake for 2-3mins).

anyway, I hang up the phone, open the door, step out of the car lifting my foot off the brake and the car starts rolling backwards straight into the wall with me standing with one foot outside the car with an open door. So im forced to jump in and hit the brake.

Im trying to find out if this is some error on my side or if the car is actually dangerous next time I step out if the car with kids behind it. When I got the car, I was told by the car dealer that I don’t need to turn the car off manually, that it turns on auto hold when standing still and when I open the door and leave the seat, the car turns off and goes into parking mode. It does that 999 times out of a thousand, but not that time.

The car dealer only thinks im trying to get out of the insurance deductible, so not much help there.

so, if by some fault the auto hold didn’t engage, shouldn’t the car go into parking brake when I leave the seat with an open door? And if not, the emergency sensors should react to the wall?

Has anyone else had somehing similar to this?

for now Im always turning on the parking break and turning off the car manually before stepping out when there are people around. Im always double checking and making sure the P is lit so it doesn’t roll off without me.
Sorry to hear about the accident. I know my e-Golf would shut off as soon as the driver's door is opened. I think a lot of people are too trusting with all the tech in cars today and sometimes people trust their cars with their lives. Pretty crazy.
 

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I'm surprised the car didn't automatically engage the parking break when you opened the door. ...
Yeah, agreed, I challenge anybody here to replicate what John did. I don't think you can! I'm pretty sure if it played out exactly how he described, there's a fly in the ointment.
 

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Well learned something new today. The car dies place itself in park if you un buckle and get out of the car. Didn't know this.
 

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I'm in the Home Depot parking lot and trying to duplicate this.

First problem in the US is no auto hold (unlike the OP who has auto hold), so the momenti I lift my foot off the brake, the car begins to roll backwards. So that's the first case: just letting off the brake pedal. The car moves. Normal.

But I'm pressing on.

Unbuckling the seatbelt and lifting my foot, the car begins to roll, but opening the door stops it immediately and goes to the Goodbye screen.

Unbuckling the seatbelt, lifting my foot, then lifting my butt, the car rolls about 3 feet, then stops, "Parking Brake Engaged" flashes on driver screen, goes to Goodbye screen.

Leaving the seatbelt buckled, lifting my foot, butt off the seat, the car reverses.

Similarly, seatbelt buckled, lifting my foot, door open, the car reverses.

But combine those two scenarios, seatbelt buckled, lift foot, butt up, and the car stops when I open the door.

... oh wait!

I found a glitch. After a few attempts at this, it doesn't stop. I'm thinking it has to do with the order of opening the door and lifting my butt. Continuing on...

I'm at the point enough attempts in a row and it's not stopping consistently, and now I'm able to...
  • Seatbelt buckled
  • Car in reverse
  • Lift foot, begin moving
  • Lift butt + open door (either order)
  • Unbuckle seatbelt
  • CAR KEEPS ROLLING!
Again, the first times I went through this sequence, the car would stop either upon opening the door or lifting my butt, whichever I did second.

I'll report this to VW. I wonder if it's fixed in 2.3? Definitely a bug. Seatbelt unbuckled should have been the showstopper in the above scenario failing the butt/door combo.

Edit: seat heater was on low, and it's not a pressure sensor issue as this functioned correctly 10 minutes later when I arrived home.
 

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Confirmed last night also. I was able to open the door and have the car roll on me with B mode after I let the foot off the brake. Reverse with the door opened stopped and put the car in park. I don’t know if this is consistent behavior or timing specific.
 

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I'm in the Home Depot parking lot and trying to duplicate this.

First problem in the US is no auto hold, so the momenti I lift my foot off the brake, the car begins to roll backwards. To that's the first case: just letting off the brake pedal. The car moves.

But I pressed on.

Unbuckling the seatbelt and lifting my foot, the car begins to roll, but opening the door stops it immediately and goes to the Goodbye screen.

Unbuckling the seatbelt, lifting my foot, then lifting my butt, the car rolls about 3 feet, then stops, "Parking Brake Engaged" flashes on driver screen, goes to Goodbye screen.

Leaving the seatbelt buckled, lifting my foot, butt off the seat, the car reverses.

Similarly, seatbelt buckled, lifting my foot, door open, the car reverses.

But combine those two scenarios, seatbelt buckled, lift foot, butt up, and the car stops when I open the door.

... oh wait!

I found a glitch. After a few attempts at this, it didn't stop. I thought it had to do with the order of opening the door and lifting my butt. I tested on.

But I'm at the point enough attempts in a row and it's not stopping consistently, and now I'm able to...
  • Seatbelt buckled
  • Car in reverse
  • Lift foot, begin moving
  • Lift butt + open door (either order)
  • Unbuckle seatbelt
  • CAR KEEPS ROLLING!
Again, the first times I went through this sequence, the car would stop either upon opening the door or lifting my butt, whichever I did second.

I'll report this to VW. I wonder if it's fixed in 2.3? Definitely a bug. Seatbelt unbuckled should have been the showstopper in the above scenario failing the butt/door combo.

Edit: seat heater was on low, and it's not a pressure sensor issue as this functioned correctly 10 minutes later when I arrived home.
Thanks for doing these test!! It would appear there is a glitch in the matrix somewhere Leo.
 

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I'm in the Home Depot parking lot and trying to duplicate this.

First problem in the US is no auto hold, so the momenti I lift my foot off the brake, the car begins to roll backwards. To that's the first case: just letting off the brake pedal. The car moves.

But I pressed on.

Unbuckling the seatbelt and lifting my foot, the car begins to roll, but opening the door stops it immediately and goes to the Goodbye screen.

Unbuckling the seatbelt, lifting my foot, then lifting my butt, the car rolls about 3 feet, then stops, "Parking Brake Engaged" flashes on driver screen, goes to Goodbye screen.

Leaving the seatbelt buckled, lifting my foot, butt off the seat, the car reverses.

Similarly, seatbelt buckled, lifting my foot, door open, the car reverses.

But combine those two scenarios, seatbelt buckled, lift foot, butt up, and the car stops when I open the door.

... oh wait!

I found a glitch. After a few attempts at this, it didn't stop. I thought it had to do with the order of opening the door and lifting my butt. I tested on.

But I'm at the point enough attempts in a row and it's not stopping consistently, and now I'm able to...
  • Seatbelt buckled
  • Car in reverse
  • Lift foot, begin moving
  • Lift butt + open door (either order)
  • Unbuckle seatbelt
  • CAR KEEPS ROLLING!
Again, the first times I went through this sequence, the car would stop either upon opening the door or lifting my butt, whichever I did second.

I'll report this to VW. I wonder if it's fixed in 2.3? Definitely a bug. Seatbelt unbuckled should have been the showstopper in the above scenario failing the butt/door combo.

Edit: seat heater was on low, and it's not a pressure sensor issue as this functioned correctly 10 minutes later when I arrived home.
That sounds dangerous. I did a little playing around in my Audi yesterday to while waiting on my daughter at the bus stop. It's wired a little differently, but I WAS able to also get it to not engage the parking break in at least one scenario, so it's not completely different I'm afraid. I didn't write down the steps, but it seems the Audi is a little less complicated AFAIK in using the door open sensor for much of it.

That said, it's an ICE vehicle so it creeps (no auto hold), and its from a different brand in the VW system. Would be interesting to see someone with a different VW do some testing.

Anyhow, seems note to the wise... just as in days of yore, ALWAYS make sure you put the car in park before you exit the vehicle. Don't trust the car to double check you, even though it's liable to attempt at least some self preservation. :)
 

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Eventually you are relying on a fail safe mechanism imho. Just press the the parking brake before unbuckling, and might you forget, then the failsafe will usually safe your behind. But to me it’s like jumping out of an airplane with only the reserve chute. Pretty tricky…
 

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That's why I feel like the OP got a raw deal. The "failsafe" didn't fail safe, it failed.

Or wasn't like he knowingly exited with the car in gear. There's just not a great way to notice if a little distracted, especially with no audible pedestrian warning hum nor any creep to indicate the car is in gear, no key to turn and remove from the switch.

This happens in ICE cars, too. Plenty of videos on YouTube to back this up. Pretty sure that's why the Tahoe I drive at work unlocks the doors when I shift to park. It's a good reminder the car's in gear if I try to open the door and find it locked.

Once, in my allroad (push button start), I was shocked to come back to my car idling (in Park) at the curb after dashing in for a few minutes to pick up a kid. It happens.

In any case, VW clearly designed against this happening, and more times than not in my tests this morning and actual use over the past six months, the ID.4 prevented this from happening. When it failed today, it failed inconsistently.
 

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Once, in my allroad (push button start), I was shocked to come back to my car idling (in Park) at the curb after dashing in for a few minutes to pick up a kid. It happens.
I've had this happen in our Audi as well. The car is too quiet at idle. LOL Parked the car, swore I shut it off, but the radio often stays on even after hitting the push button until you open the door. Anyhow, this time I didn't have the radio on, so I got out, locked the car and went inside for about 15-20 minutes. Came back out and got in the car to find it still running, but very nice and cool inside.

But yeah, it happens for sure!

Though that is unlikely to help you if you hit someone, so do your best to be careful!
 

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Discussion Starter · #32 ·
I'm in the Home Depot parking lot and trying to duplicate this.

First problem in the US is no auto hold, so the momenti I lift my foot off the brake, the car begins to roll backwards. So that's the first case: just letting off the brake pedal. The car moves. Normal.

But I'm pressing on.

Unbuckling the seatbelt and lifting my foot, the car begins to roll, but opening the door stops it immediately and goes to the Goodbye screen.

Unbuckling the seatbelt, lifting my foot, then lifting my butt, the car rolls about 3 feet, then stops, "Parking Brake Engaged" flashes on driver screen, goes to Goodbye screen.

Leaving the seatbelt buckled, lifting my foot, butt off the seat, the car reverses.

Similarly, seatbelt buckled, lifting my foot, door open, the car reverses.

But combine those two scenarios, seatbelt buckled, lift foot, butt up, and the car stops when I open the door.

... oh wait!

I found a glitch. After a few attempts at this, it doesn't stop. I'm thinking it has to do with the order of opening the door and lifting my butt. Continuing on...

I'm at the point enough attempts in a row and it's not stopping consistently, and now I'm able to...
  • Seatbelt buckled
  • Car in reverse
  • Lift foot, begin moving
  • Lift butt + open door (either order)
  • Unbuckle seatbelt
  • CAR KEEPS ROLLING!
Again, the first times I went through this sequence, the car would stop either upon opening the door or lifting my butt, whichever I did second.

I'll report this to VW. I wonder if it's fixed in 2.3? Definitely a bug. Seatbelt unbuckled should have been the showstopper in the above scenario failing the butt/door combo.

Edit: seat heater was on low, and it's not a pressure sensor issue as this functioned correctly 10 minutes later when I arrived home.
wow great work! I will definately take this back to my vw workshop.A colleague at work already has 2.3 so I guess I can test out on his car. :)

a big thanks to you for finding the glitch! If that particular order is faulty, vw should definately fix it!
 

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wow great work! I will definately take this back to my vw workshop.A colleague at work already has 2.3 so I guess I can test out on his car. :)

a big thanks to you for finding the glitch! If that particular order is faulty, vw should definately fix it!
You bet. Already passed to emobility and to DK via direct message. I hope they respond.

I'd really appreciate it if somebody else will try duplicating my test. Once I crossed that threshold that allowed it to fail, I didn't restart from zero to figure out how I got there. But I worked progressively towards it, so maybe that's part of the process? Or is it just random? (I don't think it's random.) Maybe time? (I was in reverse for a few minutes at a time because I was writing my post as I was testing).

I also didn't try in D or B.
 

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I think occam's razor in play here. I'm sure most if not all of us learned to drive a car with little to no automation. Learned to drive on a 1971 fiat 850 sport (POS but I digress) so we are all used to putting the car in park. It doesn't have to be complicated, opening the door puts the car in park. It should be that simple. I think they made it too complicated like many things on this car.The new generation is going to rely on sensors, back up cameras, driving automation so it makes sense to have fool proof systems. They pushed us into not needing a key to start the car and they should make sure egress is the same way. If not then whats the point
 

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Perhaps, but I can think of instances when I'd want to be in gear with the door open. They're not common scenarios, and this will sound paranoid, but consider a carjacking or just some crazy road rage situation where somebody opening your door immobilizes the car. Dramatic, I know, but it's there. More commonly I'll open my door a crack to drive the car up on ramps. For oil changes. You know.... in the Flex.

I don't think the brake pedal - pressure pad - seat belt - door logic is bad, or even unnecessarily complicated, there's just a broken branch in the code there somewhere. Everything about this car's code must be complex, and this Park logic is probably one of the simpler things. I'm surprised it's messed up.

Your 71 Fiat, assuming it was automatic, would have been pretty obvious if you got out while engaged in Reverse. Same with the US ID.4 — what with the pedestrian acoustic playing and the "creep" rolling the car. But I'd like to get rid of one of those tattletales (auto-hold, please!?!) , and a few here would like to get rid of the other. That would make this car-in-gear condition even easier to walk into.

Simple is good, but too simple can be a handicap.
 

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Learned to drive on a 1971 fiat 850 sport (POS but I digress) so we are all used to putting the car in park.
Despite familiarity with putting fully manuals into neutral, we all made the mistake from time to time of releasing the clutch pedal while the car was still in gear and it would lurch and stall. Gently rocking the gear stick back and forth was the way to be sure you were in neutral, but I'd forget from time to time.

To err is human so the car does need to catch driver errors where possible. It doesn't absolve the driver from responsibility, simple smart automation is all we need.
 

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Discussion Starter · #37 · (Edited)
Ok, I got the car back from repair. First thing I did was to try to replicate the error. So what better way than to just film it. Please tell me that this is a bug in the car. I would have taken the blame for the accident and moved on unless Nai3t had been there and able to replicate on his/her car.

It took a few tries, at first when I opened the door the parking break immediately activated. So after 10-12 tries I was ready to give in. But then I took a call on wireless apple carplay, just like when I had the accident. And suddently I was to replicate the error several times. Don’t know if that has something to do with it or if its just a coincidence.

Im not sure how to add videos so here is a dropbox link:
 

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In your video though the seatbelt is still buckled. The seatbelt state is a factor, although once the logic tree broke down, unlatching it no longer caused the car to brake.

Keep us posted what VW's response it. I would press the case that although, yes, there is the ultimate component of driver responsibility that cannot be denied, they've created an unsafe condition with a car that gives zero indication of being in gear (no ped noise, no creep as you're stating in your version), and a safety system that is clearly in place (when it works) to prevent such an occurrence.
 

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Discussion Starter · #39 ·
In your video though the seatbelt is still buckled. The seatbelt state is a factor, although once the logic tree broke down, unlatching it no longer caused the car to brake.

Keep us posted what VW's response it. I would press the case that although, yes, there is the ultimate component of driver responsibility that cannot be denied, they've created an unsafe condition with a car that gives zero indication of being in gear (no ped noise, no creep as you're stating in your version), and a safety system that is clearly in place (when it works) to prevent such an occurrence.
[/QUOTE
I’ve sent the video to vw
In your video though the seatbelt is still buckled. The seatbelt state is a factor, although once the logic tree broke down, unlatching it no longer caused the car to brake.

Keep us posted what VW's response it. I would press the case that although, yes, there is the ultimate component of driver responsibility that cannot be denied, they've created an unsafe condition with a car that gives zero indication of being in gear (no ped noise, no creep as you're stating in your version), and a safety system that is clearly in place (when it works) to prevent such an occurrence.
ye I sent the video to my vw shop and they are looking into it. The seatbelt is still on, Im gonna do the whole sequence later today and unbuckle as well.
Im mostly worried that a stressed parent as myself might one day exit and the car accidently runs over a child. So even though there is an ultimate responsibility of the driver, this kind of accident can happen with this glitch being present. Or as someone mentioned above, someone opening the door and getting stuck to a pillar and dying outside mcdonalds.
 

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Hmmm... Now that you mention it, I wonder whether the bumper sensors / traffic detection system continues to function under this condition, of does that branch of auto-braking fail, also?
 
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