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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
And why I bought it for my wife.
This was in reply to another post. But I think I'll start my own thread because it shared more of my own authentic ideas and experience.

While driving my wife's ICE, I realized I needed to fuel it up. I purposely chose a Wawa that had an EA DCFC in hopes to see an ID.4 in the wild. Across the parking lot I see a moonstone grey pro rwd. After finishing fueling I head over to the car and speak with the driver who has their window cracked. I mention that I'll be taking delivery of my moonstone grey Pro S gradient AWD in the coming weeks. I was met with disinterest that put me back. This driver liked her car but didn't seem to know much about it. She remarked " oh yeah, they have to be ordered?". She clearly didn't have the wait and anticipation that the rest of us experience. I asked her if she got it at the local dealer that I have my reservation with and she was unsure of where the vehicle came from. WTF, did someone literally buy this car and hand it to her? Does she not know that people are obsessed with taking delivery of every ID.4 arriving on dealer lots? I realize that not everyone wants to be bothered while charging and simply wished her well and walked away. BTW it was during the day and I kept a repectful distance.

Was it crazy to think that every ID.4 owner would be passionate regarding this vehicle? What a disappointment.
Literally, I'd think she would be the target population that VW wants to sell to, not people like us.
I'm more passionate about the ioniq 5, just to be disappointed by Hyundai's operation on the preorder and launch issues.
I placed my preorder of this ID.4 about 2 months after I put down my deposit for ioniq 5. This was just a plan B for its price and 3 years of unlimited free charge which I thought was ridiculous and would be gone next year (and it did reduce to 30 mins sessions, better than my expectation). Also, the fact that VW would factor in the 7500 tax credit to the lease because I'm the only work person at home and I cannot work to own the federal more than 7500, which means at least 100-120k plus income for a couple with no children). I haven't even been interested in the ID.4 before driving one, just because of the dislikes from almost all journalists about how "uncool" it is.

I only became interested after my wife and I both drove in the RWD ID.4 local dealer had. The handling, ride comfort and build quality just impressed me a lot, especially after driving a model Y back to back on the same day. RWD's acceleration is more than enough in town, but a bit too slow after 60 mph though. Acceleration is also a matter of road trip safety if you cannot go fast enough to merge into a busy highway. It's the reason we ordered the AWD. Another reason is my wife really likes the look, both exterior and interior of the ID.4, over Model Y or ioniq 5.

I'd say I'm a traditional automobile enthusiast. I had sports cars, SUVs, trucks, almost any kind of vehicles you can imagine. I value the build quality and design more than some fancy software or "minimalist" interior. A vehicle to me has to be a safe and good vehicle first, not a fancy iPad first. To me, model Y is just a bulky heavy very fast (but cannot stop well) iPad with the poor build quality. VW at least got the vehicle part right, that's its first identity IMHO. And the staggered tire actually helped the handling quite a bit. I tried to accelerate out a right turn with the RWD and anticipated a slide, but the car just sprint out of the wet after rain intersection with no issue. Tried with my wife's Escape 2.0T with Pirelli tires 20 mins later, it slides at about 10 mph lower speed. Idk maybe the ESC on the VW also worked better being 8 years newer? I love driving sportier cars, but toys are just toys for me. This ID.4 and my sonata hybrid are the ones I like to ride in as a daily commute.

We never owned any EV before, the closest "electrified" experience was from my 17 sonata hybrid which also has a minor regen from its 39hp electric motor. And I bought this car my 3rd commute car just because it's cheap (28k MSRP, paid 21k brand new in 2018, which is cheaper than most new ICE in this segment). But then ended loving it quite a bit. It's nowhere near the fun and handling of my Focus ST (1:1.8 steering ratio), and not even as fast as my F150 (about 1s slower than the truck). But it's super comfortable and rides nice, easy to park. Trying new things is risky. It's why I bought this cheap sonata hybrid to try it out. It's also my first Korean car. We heard a lot of bad words about Korean cars, both in the US and in China, but it turns out to be giving us the least issue for the first 3 years out of all the new vehicles we had before, not even a squeak from any interior panel (mix of US and Japs made). We were both impressed about the quietness when the engine is off and running on EV mode, that's also a plus point for ID.4 (and the US model doesn't even have a double laminated side window at all). We have never owned any VW before as well. My dad had a golf vi in China for about 10 years. VW had a much better reputation for building quality and longevity in China other than in the US. So we'll see how it goes.

She likes the fact that she can drive like a normal SUV in D mode, and I think I'd probably use more of the B mode on commute. I don't like the super-strong regen or nothing at all of Tesla, it's why I like ioniq 5 better that you can adjust the regen from paddles. Only thing I think missing on the B is a brake hold mode at light (and hope it would work on D as well). It actually has the brake hold, if you use travel assist and there's a car in front of you. It just won't do it if you stopped at the light by yourself.
 

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2021 ID.4 Pro, Glacier White
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I think most all EV's are slanted quite a bit toward drivers who are coming from ICE's and have never owned an EV before, rather than to those of us who have been driving EV's for 10 years or so - We all know what we'd like to see them implement and it's generally to make them better EV's and much less like ICE's . . . . but the market has gotta be looking at those who have never owned an EV before - There's lots more of them than there are of us . . . .
 

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When Tesla first introduced their cars, they offered that fact that is was an EV, it had "cool" one pedal driving and a "cool" tablet to control everything. This all helped attract a lot of attention and sales and they were essentially the only game in town with an expensive but not luxurious fast car.

Now, as Tesla tries to get more toward the mainstream market ( configuration-wise but not price-wise) with the 3 and Y, they are offering still relatively expensive cars that are fast, have a very firm ride with questionable build quality ( also, please pay no attention to the cheap interior) . For a family car, does one really want a fast, hard riding car with extreme one pedal driving? Pass out the barf bags to the others riding in the car ASAP!

VW's move to prioritize solid build quality, smooth operation and a more moderate price seems to hit the nail on the head if targeting families. The ID.4 will eventually get a better infotainment software but the fundamental car design is something that will remain for a model for a few years, at least.
Regarding how much slower the ID.4 is compared to the Y, VW's strategy to ease power in from a stop increases comfort and should stretch the life of the battery and trans. My understanding is that massive charge rates, and discharge rates are what shorten the life of a lithium ion battery. So, if buying a car for an extended use vs. leasing for a short time, the VW approach is probably better for most. Yes, Tesla can have the bragging rights for 0-60 but the ID.4 is, I believe, better to haul the family around in.

This is the difference between a car company, with great experience, that considers many factors when designing something vs an up-and-coming company that needs to make a big splash.

I love my Porsche Carrera S. It is fast, handles much better than an overweight Tesla, but my wife does not like to ride in it.
 

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The difference, I think, is that most EV sales have been to buyers specifically looking for EVs, VW is instead taking the approach of pushing this EV on traditional ICE buyers.

Yeah, there are probably way more first-timers EV owners out there than repeat customers coming from Tesla / Leaf / Prius etc, but up to now my feeling is those buyers go out shopping specifically for EVs. The ID.4 can be easily cross-shopped with a Subaru Forester or Toyota RAV4.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 · (Edited)
I think most all EV's are slanted quite a bit toward drivers who are coming from ICE's and have never owned an EV before, rather than to those of us who have been driving EV's for 10 years or so - We all know what we'd like to see them implement and it's generally to make them better EV's and much less like ICE's . . . . but the market has gotta be looking at those who have never owned an EV before - There's lots more of them than there are of us . . . .
Wow, i'd think, for someone who have owned EV for 10 years, would go Ioniq 5, Mach-E, or tesla.
We've never had any pure BEV. It's why we choose ID4 - the closest to ICE or hybrid feeling EV.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
When Tesla first introduced their cars, they offered that fact that is was an EV, it had "cool" one pedal driving and a "cool" tablet to control everything. This all helped attract a lot of attention and sales and they were essentially the only game in town with an expensive but not luxurious fast car.

Now, as Tesla tries to get more toward the mainstream market ( configuration-wise but not price-wise) with the 3 and Y, they are offering still relatively expensive cars that are fast, have a very firm ride with questionable build quality ( also, please pay no attention to the cheap interior) . For a family car, does one really want a fast, hard riding car with extreme one pedal driving? Pass out the barf bags to the others riding in the car ASAP!

VW's move to prioritize solid build quality, smooth operation and a more moderate price seems to hit the nail on the head if targeting families. The ID.4 will eventually get a better infotainment software but the fundamental car design is something that will remain for a model for a few years, at least.
Regarding how much slower the ID.4 is compared to the Y, VW's strategy to ease power in from a stop increases comfort and should stretch the life of the battery and trans. My understanding is that massive charge rates, and discharge rates are what shorten the life of a lithium ion battery. So, if buying a car for an extended use vs. leasing for a short time, the VW approach is probably better for most. Yes, Tesla can have the bragging rights for 0-60 but the ID.4 is, I believe, better to haul the family around in.

This is the difference between a car company, with great experience, that considers many factors when designing something vs an up-and-coming company that needs to make a big splash.

I love my Porsche Carrera S. It is fast, handles much better than an overweight Tesla, but my wife does not like to ride in it.
To me, anything can be fixed by OTA is not a problem. Most of Tesla's issues cannot be fixed OTA.
You mentioned about the heavy weight of tesla, which caused the braking issue. the faster they goes, the more issue they have.

What do you guys think of the drum brake on ID4 tho? especially coming from a 911? I heard people say it's plenty enough for the RWD, but might lack a bit for AWD since it's heavier, and runs faster.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
The difference, I think, is that most EV sales have been to buyers specifically looking for EVs, VW is instead taking the approach of pushing this EV on traditional ICE buyers.

Yeah, there are probably way more first-timers EV owners out there than repeat customers coming from Tesla / Leaf / Prius etc, but up to now my feeling is those buyers go out shopping specifically for EVs. The ID.4 can be easily cross-shopped with a Subaru Forester or Toyota RAV4.
I only come here after having my Sonata Hybrid for 3.5 years. So thanks to the Hyundai's build quality, I like the NVH when the engine is off. It's just too short of time on the HEV tho. I'd think its super hard to come directly from an ICE to a BEV.
 

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VW ID.4 1st (picked up 3/19/21).
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I have been to several "EV car shows" (for lack of a better term). The people who come to look are EV-curious, and the ones I have met are in several categories:
  • Currently drive a PHEV - ready to go full BEV for their next car.
  • Long-time owners of VW (many of which used to have TDI diesel), who are curious
  • People who drive other BEV (Ford, Tesla, etc), who just want to look and see what the others are like.
  • People who are new to BEV, who just want to see what the cars look like in person, who have questions (sometimes as simple as wanting to try out the seats to see how comfortable they are).
I run into people in parking lots - they are kind of a mixed bag. Sometimes they have done a lot of reading already, but have not yet made the leap. One asked me how winter affected the range (at the time it wasn't cold enough for me to make much of a statement). One person I spoke to was on a condo board, and they were trying to figure out how to do charging (they were surprised how big the ID.4 was - I guess if your point of reference is Leaf or Bolt, it does seem large).

The problem for a lot of them is simply availability - if you are willing to reserve and wait, you have the best odds. And then there are the additional dealer markups, which have reached toxic levels in some cases.
 

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I roughed-in an L2 line to my garage when building my retiree downsized home in early 2018. I had no knowledge of an upcoming VW BEV even tho' a long time VWAG owner. I just knew that I'd want to transition to an EV at some point.

I had a pre-availability reservation on a Model 3 but when the time came realized I wasn't ready to trade in my sporty ICE coupe. There are some folks here who have declined their ID.4 reservations when about to sign & drive and I can therefore empathize.

Just about the time my coupe was becoming more wearing on my back, and my new locale didn't as easily provide for its proper 'exercise', the ID.4 appeared to me seemingly out of nowhere. Thankfully it did as it was just the right vehicle at just the right time and a financial win-win as well. :)

Although I am most always in 'B' and Comfort modes, I do appreciate that VW designed more with an eye to attracting compact ICE CUV shoppers and hence 'D' mode and a comparable overall feel and price point.
 

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I think I am the target audience. The Adventurous Type who needs extra room, good ground clearance, and a reliable machine to get us back home.

Car Wheel Land vehicle Tire Vehicle
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 · (Edited)
Because this is one of the least "EV" feeling vehicle out of the batch. No real one pedal drive, not even brake hold. And it doesn't have the crazy acceleration or strong regen feel. Even leaf, kona EV, Bolt, no need to mention Teslas, are all having stronger acceleration feeling and stronger regen feeling. I felt most EV owners might already getting used to that. ID4 is the smoothest and most like ICE feeling EV.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I agree - His post was about me . . . . and it made no sense to me at all. Why would I be more interested in those other cars just because I've been driving BEV's for 10 years?? :unsure:
see my reply above
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I think I am the target audience. The Adventurous Type who needs extra room, good ground clearance, and a reliable machine to get us back home.

View attachment 8690
I have thought about taking our ID4 to the hunt club I joined today. Only to find out that even 8 inch wouldn't be enough.
My F150 with over 10 inch clearance barely made through those mud holes.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
I roughed-in an L2 line to my garage when building my retiree downsized home in early 2018. I had no knowledge of an upcoming VW BEV even tho' a long time VWAG owner. I just knew that I'd want to transition to an EV at some point.

I had a pre-availability reservation on a Model 3 but when the time came realized I wasn't ready to trade in my sporty ICE coupe. There are some folks here who have declined their ID.4 reservations when about to sign & drive and I can therefore empathize.

Just about the time my coupe was becoming more wearing on my back, and my new locale didn't as easily provide for its proper 'exercise', the ID.4 appeared to me seemingly out of nowhere. Thankfully it did as it was just the right vehicle at just the right time and a financial win-win as well. :)

Although I am most always in 'B' and Comfort modes, I do appreciate that VW designed more with an eye to attracting compact ICE CUV shoppers and hence 'D' mode and a comparable overall feel and price point.
I have never even owned a VW before.
I learned driving on our family's Cherokee (although the driving school used sonata). After coming to the US, I've owned a few Fords and a few JDMs. My dad had a Golf 6 and I have drove it back home, don't recall anything other than the cruise control lever is very weird. However, I basically have no brand loyalty, only whichever vehicle fits my need the most. And ID4 is my wife's choice, I don't think she made a wrong choice.
 
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Seems to me everyone is overthinking who the ID4 is targeted to. If a demographic segment VW has not thought of starts buying ID4s they’ll happily sell them, and likely adjust marketing.
The broader world market is trending to small SUVs, so they made one to hit that market squarely in the middle, and obviously it’s working, given delivery delays.

Me, I wanted a solid EV, built on a good dedicated platform, with 250 miles range, at a price under $45,000. The ID4 fits like a glove. I don’t care whether I fit any demographic or not. And for the record, we went cold turkey ICE to EV without issues or concerns. So did my son with his MY.
 

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Very true.
In another thread I related the initial Benz GLA compact CUV USA marketing to a younger 'new to brand' demographic, but downsizing seniors turned out to be the primary buyers (we own two). Benz then adjusted their sales pitch and happily sold them to whomever/whatever demographic. Unfortunately in 2020+ they again lost their marketing way imho, enlarging the GLA to a full SUV. We therefore passed on updating our more used vehicle as I suspect will many others who appreciate the lower CUV stance and aesthetic. I guess they figured seniors had had their fill and were therefore again going after young families. 🤷‍♂️
VW USA will adjust their marketing for the ID.4 as well. Especially when Chattanooga comes online with multiple models. ;)
Seems to me everyone is overthinking who the ID4 is targeted to. If a demographic segment VW has not thought of starts buying ID4s they’ll happily sell them, and likely adjust marketing.
The broader world market is trending to small SUVs, so they made one to hit that market squarely in the middle, and obviously it’s working, given delivery delays.

Me, I wanted a solid EV, built on a good dedicated platform, with 250 miles range, at a price under $45,000. The ID4 fits like a glove. I don’t care whether I fit any demographic or not. And for the record, we went cold turkey ICE to EV without issues or concerns. So did my son with his MY.
 

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To me, anything can be fixed by OTA is not a problem. Most of Tesla's issues cannot be fixed OTA.
You mentioned about the heavy weight of tesla, which caused the braking issue. the faster they goes, the more issue they have.

What do you guys think of the drum brake on ID4 tho? especially coming from a 911? I heard people say it's plenty enough for the RWD, but might lack a bit for AWD since it's heavier, and runs faster.
Absolutely no issues with the drum brakes: Regen-braking takes care of 95% and it can handle the rest in conjunction with the front brakes.

Drum brakes = Brilliant move
 

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Because this is one of the least "EV" feeling vehicle out of the batch. No real one pedal drive, not even brake hold. And it doesn't have the crazy acceleration or strong regen feel. Even leaf, kona EV, Bolt, no need to mention Teslas, are all having stronger acceleration feeling and stronger regen feeling. I felt most EV owners might already getting used to that. ID4 is the smoothest and most like ICE feeling EV.
Eh, not everybody is all about driving “feel”. There’s a whole lot more to owning an EV than just strong acceleration and regen. I came from a Bolt which was much pepper, but also so cheap inside compared to the ID4. The ID4 is smooth and comfortable, much more room inside, and an exceptionally easy highway driving car which is exactly what I was looking for with two young kids.
 
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