[LJ_ID4]

VW do not have the support structure to maintain electric vehicles in the UK. My ID4 has been back at the dealers for an A/C compressor replacement since JUNE and still no sign of me getting it back. The excuses have ranged from "Nobody Trained" "Attending training course" "Not completing course due to Covid" "No re-gassing equipment" "No re-gassing GAS" "Delay on delivery of the compressor"
Compressor now delivered. This months excuse is that NOBODY has the connectors to De-gas and Re-gas the A/C so the car will now sit for another 6 weeks or so then be driven 100 miles to a dealer in Newcastle who has the equipment but currently not the connectors.
I have had little or no support from VW UK. I speak to them about every 2 months but all they say each time is "The dealer has it in hand".
This service is unforgivable and buying the ID4 was the worst decision I have ever made.
I have full documentation of all of the excuses and dates. Does anybody have contact details of someone higher up in VW UK who can get this sorted out or get me a well deserved REFUND of my £40000.

 

[Spin]

I don't even know what to say other than I am so sorry for your situation. I hope you get it resolved soon.

 

[JimmyVW]

Sounds more like a really shitty dealer that doesn’t want people to switch to EVs.

 

[ddx]

I'm sorry about that, I hope you get a resolution soon, maybe some sort of lemon law / buy back get another one kinda deal?

I am wondering though seems like they are saying the ID.4 has very special connectors for AC / refrigerant lines? My understanding is that these connectors should be standard, like I could buy from an auto parts store the same refrigerant refill bottles to refill all different make and model vehicles.

 

[7S POWER]

Sounds more like a really shitty dealer that doesn’t want people to switch to EVs.

Agree. VW supplied all the training materials, but each dealer owner has to cough up the money for training their employees to transition to EV.

Several GM dealers in the NA refused to sign up for the EV transition because of the extremely high upfront cost of training their employees, updating the building electrical system, fire protection & sprinkle system, customer external wall chargers, building recertification etc. The list goes on like a runaway train.

 

[LJ_ID4]

I'm sorry about that, I hope you get a resolution soon, maybe some sort of lemon law / buy back get another one kinda deal?

I am wondering though seems like they are saying the ID.4 has very special connectors for AC / refrigerant lines? My understanding is that these connectors should be standard, like I could buy from an auto parts store the same refrigerant refill bottles to refill all different make and model vehicles.

3 months ago they told me they had found a VW dealer who had the equipment but did not have the gas or any delivery date for the gas. I do believe at least in the UK they use a different gas than standard but don't really know if that was just an excuse. Having waited 6 weeks for delivery of a compressor, ONLY now do they discover that NOBODY has the connectors to remove / replace the gas. I am going out to the USA for a month from mid November on vacation so unless it is finished before that, I won't get it until just before Christmas. (I obviously won't need any A/C cooling by then).
This vehicle should never have left the factory with a compressor which was not working. (So much for vehicle testing within the factory).
Regarding a replacement mine is the 1st edition and at the time of order there was a government grant of £3000 paid to VW. This grant stopped just before I took delivery but I still got it.
I can't now get a 1st edition and my refund may not include the £3000 so I would be out of pocket for my next purchase.

We are ripped off in general in the UK.
e.g. £40000 currently = $55140. For that I got the 1st edition (BASIC) with almost no options. (Manual seats / trunk lid. No wireless charging and more). Compare that to what you get in the USA and cars currently have to be shipped from Germany to the USA.

Sorry to rant but I am nearing the end of my patience with VW

 

[fireboy92k]

I wonder if you are using the same gas as Canada? This is from the US ' self-study' for the high voltage system that's been shared here and other places.

R744 is CO2, which operates at a much higher pressure than our historic, ozone-destroying hydrofluorocarbons or flammable chloroflurocarbons. So I suspect that if there is a difference in connectors, etc. it's to accommodate that higher operating pressure (apparently 10x the same as the R1234yf noted for US). Same for the capture/recapture systems.

This website seems to have some good information: R-744 Carbon Dioxide Refrigerant Fact & Info Sheet - Refrigerant HQ

No idea on availability issues myself.

Sorry it's turned into such as PITA!

 

[Huey52]

My former small Audi/VW dealer was somewhat a maverick and therefore when the edict from Audi came down to standardize their building facade they balked. They then lost their Audi franchise until they finally conceded.

These EV-balking VW dealerships will likely also come around over time under similar regional corporate pressure.

I believe we're all very sorry to hear of your truly pathetic service experience LJ_ID4. Hopefully you get a well deserved Christmas present.

And yes, most any fluid may be used as a refrigerant but much higher compression required for most vs. the ozone depleting days. Good ol' Boyle's Laws of Gases.
btw: ammonia is used in the International Space Station as very lower compression efficient, albeit very dangerous. But then they're rocket scientists.

Agree. VW supplied all the training materials, but each dealer owner has to cough up the money for training their employees to transition to EV.

Several GM dealers in the NA refused to sign up for the EV transition because of the upfront cost of training their employees, updating the building electrical system,
fire protection & sprinkle system, customer external wall chargers, building recertification etc. The list goes on like a runaway train.

 

[ddx]

I wonder if you are using the same gas as Canada? This is from the US ' self-study' for the high voltage system that's been shared here and other places.

R744 is CO2, which operates at a much higher pressure than our historic, ozone-destroying hydrofluorocarbons or flammable chloroflurocarbons. So I suspect that if there is a difference in connectors, etc. it's to accommodate that higher operating pressure (apparently 10x the same as the R1234yf noted for US). Same for the capture/recapture systems.

This website seems to have some good information: R-744 Carbon Dioxide Refrigerant Fact & Info Sheet - Refrigerant HQ

No idea on availability issues myself.

Sorry it's turned into such as PITA!


View attachment 6710

Wow I learnt something new today. There are R134a, R1234yf and R744.

 

[d287]

Yeah, R1234yf is the replacement for R134a in traditional auto Air Conditioners (like we have the in US models, and other "hot country" markets). Has less than 1/1,000th the global warming contributions. Car makers have been using it since the early 2010s. The heat pump models use pure Carbon Dioxide (aka R744), which is becoming more common now, but is still much newer and manufacturers and service techs have less experience with it.

Also, as an aside - all refrigerants have pluses and minuses. R1234yf is mildly flammable (it's a propene) but it's much harder to ignite that gasoline or other fluids else found under the hood of an ICE car. It also breaks down into a forever chemical (like PFAS) if released into the air. CO2/R744 is actually more dangerous to humans in the immediate vicinity - like dry ice it is heavier than air and can smother people in an enclosed space if released into the air.

 

[ddx]

So I was browsing Autozone (local auto parts store in the US) and they do have refill cans for R1234yf at $140 (vs $30 for R134a), does that mean US ID.4s have standard fittings? The description says "standard YF snap-lock coupler" I guess where the "yf" in R1234yf came from.

Not that I need one now 😁 (yet!) just learning about the car.

 

[d287]

Yes, each refrigerant standard has standard fittings. But hopefully you’ll never need it!

 

[7S POWER]

I wonder if you are using the same gas as Canada? This is from the US ' self-study' for the high voltage system that's been shared here and other places.

I believe, Canada uses the Carbon neutral R744 vs the US R1234yf as per the attached slide.

GWP (Global Warning Potential) = 1 = Carbon Neutral

R744 = GWP 1
R1234yf = GWP 4

 

[7S POWER]

R744 is CO2, which operates at a much higher pressure than our historic, ozone-destroying hydrofluorocarbons or flammable chloroflurocarbons. So I suspect that if there is a difference in connectors, etc. it's to accommodate that higher operating pressure (apparently 10x the same as the R1234yf noted for US). Same for the capture/recapture systems.

Y, it's, and R744 is the perfect solution for the heat pump. VAG heat pumps run on R744 gas vs R1234yf. That's the reason why the US doesn't get the heat pump, and Canada's ID.4s do.

 

[7S POWER]

This website seems to have some good information: R-744 Carbon Dioxide Refrigerant Fact & Info Sheet - Refrigerant HQ

Thanks for the link

 

[fireboy92k]

I did finally find a website with a link to the technical service bulletin that Tesla put out for the early problems with their heat pump systems. Seems to be related to faulty pressure/temp sensor on both the high and load side.

Regardless, the other information in that tech bulletin also confirmed that the Model Y uses R1234yf.

Autozone sells a 'typical' can without the bleed valve for $45. R1234YF Refrigerant - Car Air Conditioning Coolant (autozone.com) Part of the cost problem is likely that there is only one provider, the original manufacturers (Honeywell/Dupont). I suspect that had more had more than a little something to do with Daimler claiming issues with it based on 'flammability', something the Society for Automotive Engineers (SAE) said they couldn't replicate. But I don't know that for sure of course.

SAE CRP: growing high level of confidence that R1234yf can be used safely; “disappointment” with departure of Daimler, BMW and Audi - Green Car Congress​

​

Volkswagen to use CO2 as refrigerant for future air conditioning systems - Green Car Congress​

Some other interesting videos on R1234yf handling anyhow.

What's R1234yf? What's R134a? Automotive HVAC training - YouTube​

​

R1234yf Service: How & Why - YouTube​

Not a lot of info out there at the moment on 744A that I can find in automotive. It's widely used in super market sized systems, where they are in the process of accelerating the replacement of older systems with new ones based on CO2.

New Climate-Friendly Motor Vehicle Air Conditioning Refrigerants (epa.gov)

 

[7S POWER]

I did finally find a website with a link to the technical service bulletin that Tesla put out for the early problems with their heat pump systems. Seems to be related to faulty pressure/temp sensor on both the high and load side.

Thanks for those links.

 

[fireboy92k]

Thanks for those links.

Gave me nightmares about college thermodynamics. Why I switched to computer engineering. LOL

 

[7S POWER]

Not a lot of info out there at the moment on 744A that I can find in automotive. It's widely used in super market sized systems, where they are in the process of accelerating the replacement of older systems with new ones based on CO2.
New Climate-Friendly Motor Vehicle Air Conditioning Refrigerants (epa.gov)

Yes, the supermarket and hockey rinks are the biggest users in the NA.

This is the only one I can find,

Volkswagen Offering R744 Heat Pump for Electric Vehicles

All models of new ID.3 and ID.4 cars are equipped with an energy-efficient R744 heat pump for heating and AC.

r744.com

Audi Electric SUVs Offer CO2 Heat Pump to Boost Driving Range

The CO2 mobile heat pump from Volkswagen's Audi can reduce the loss of range that climate control causes, especially in winter.

r744.com

 

[7S POWER]

Gave me nightmares about college thermodynamics. Why I switched to computer engineering. LOL

LOL, there's more work opportunity in Computer Engineering! I wish I had taken Computer or Electrical/Electronics Engineering, instead of Mechanical. ISMH many times over.🤦‍♂️